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Help Save Smokey, My Shubunkin Goldfish!

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Debbie, cycling is going very sloooooooooooow. :zz

Params are fine but now water is cloudy after 80% water change to get ammonia down. Sigh.

Its driving me crazy. :krazy:

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Debbie, cycling is going very sloooooooooooow. :zz

Params are fine but now water is cloudy after 80% water change to get ammonia down. Sigh.

Its driving me crazy. :krazy:

Awwww, Poor Vickie! :k055:

I'm sure it's a hassle doing so many water changes - and on a bigger tank, especially. Taking out 2.5 or 5 gallons from a 10 gallon tank is a breeze. But you know it's what's best for your fish, so you do it, and that's what makes you a great Fish Mom! :D

Hang in there! :hug

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I'm glad to see that smokey is doing better! I hope he gets to 100% very soon!!

Thank you grain! He's looking even better today. He has his "friskiness" back, and he's just adorable.

How is your fish doing? I haven't checked your thread in a couple days. I hope your fish is doing better, too! :exactly

Debbie

Cool, I'm glad to hear he's getting back to his old self! Don't ya just LOVE that!!

My little guys are about the same....Shubunkin's tumor is getting worse, but I am still waiting on the meds I ordered to arrive. But the metromed food seems to be helping them a bit, so that's good news! Thank you for asking :)

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Hello Everyone! :hi

Smokey is still doing great! I got back from my tip last night and tested the water right away. I was surprised (and VERY pleased) that the params were still Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5 and pH 7.8. I did a 50% water change today, since none have been done while I was away (last one on Wednesday).

I have a question about feeding though. As I've said before, Dot grew quite a bit while Smokey was sick. I've heard that you should feed the fish as much as they can consume within 2 minutes. I feed my fish a good sized pinch of flakes, and it's gone in less than a minute. Not many hit the gravel, since they try to get the food before the other fish does. (the piglets! :D ) I'm afraid to feed more and end up over-feeding them, but should I give them as much as they can consume in 2 minutes?

Thank you everyone for your support for me and my fish! This place is the best! :thumbup:

Debbie

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Pleased to hear the good news debbie :thumb: and welcome home! It seems you have mastered your tanks water change needs perfectly. Now that you've finished cycling you can increase the feeding slightly if you think that one pinch is gobbled up in no time. What are you feeding these days? The flake food should be soaked - personally I prefer to go with a sinking pellet food as its just more substantial. One pellet packs in at least 20 flakes in one go. So makes for less air gobbled. And once or twice a week the fish should get peas or veggies.

That's a great relief you can do fewer w/cs now. Poor vickie is not quite there yet. I'm hoping she'll be at this much easier stage soon!

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:yeah: Hey Debbie and welcome back! That is such great news about Smokey. He's such a cutie, and now he's eating like a pig, huh? That always cracks me up! Moby acts like he'd eat my fingers if he had teeth, and you can see he isn't starving! :feedme Has Smokeys growth started to pick up yet?

I envy you on your cycling so quick. :lol2 I have driven poor Trinket nuts over the weekend...to the point that she was having nightmares about my ph. Then I panicked and used a ph corrector, and it crashed the ph in less than 2 minutes! Oy vey!! It seems to be better now. The water params are great and it seems that the fog is starting to clear. Patience is not one of my few virtues, I guess.

Hope you had a great mini-vacation, and so glad Smokey is doing so much better!

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Hello :)

Smokey is still doing great today. He has his old fun loving look about him as he swims around the tank. I've sure missed that!

I'm hoping his tail will get back to normal in time. It's still rather floppy. I think he'll have better coordination when/if it goes back to the way it used to be. It was never the size of Dot's, but it wasn't floppy. I think he'd swim faster, too. He used to like to play in the "current" from the filter, but he doesn't quite have the swimming strength to swim up it.

To comment on some of the previous posts, I do soak the flakes first. I have a medicine cup - Nyquil, I think - that I washed out and I put the food and some aquarium water in it for about 10 - 20 seconds or so, until it looks good and soft. Then I pour it into the tank a bit at a time. They dive for it, and I'll pour more in until it's gone. I do give them peas once a week, and more often if they need it. Smokey is the only one who ever seemed to have a problem anyway.

It's funny - but when I very first fed them peas, they were afraid of them! They ate what was falling, but quickly spit it out and went and hid in the corner of the tank. I was telling them to go eat them, that they were supposed to LOVE peas, but they didn't budge. I went into the kitchen to clean up the shells and throw out the few other peas that were cooked, and when I went back to the tank - the peas were gone! For a long time they wouldn't eat them if I was standing there. They only ate them when I left. Crazy fish! :D

Trinket, can you recommend a good sinking pellet food? When I go to the pet store, they have shelves of food, and I wouldn't know a good brand from a bad one.

Vickie - I read your post with your pH problems. How sweet of Trinket to think of you so much! :heart I haven't checked back there since this morning, though. Have you solved the problem?

It was quite ironic to me that Smokey was the fish to get sick. After having to put my kitty down, I used to have nightmares that he was eaten. Poor critter was eaten by a raccoon, wolves, a cat, even Mr. Feeney from the Boy Meets World show. (that nightmare was just last week :blink: )

You know, it seemed like my tank cycled pretty quick, but really, I'd been doing daily or every other day water changes for almost 2 months - so I guess it just happened. I was just so focused on Smokey getting better, that I didn't even give a thought to the cycling process. When I was reading about your cloudy water, it reminded me that about 2 weeks ago my water seemed just a bit cloudy for a few days. I saw what Trinket had said about the bbs getting disturbed. That was just about when I started getting the Nitrate reading, so it all fits I guess.

You know, there is a plus side to having to work on your tank so much. You get to spend more time with your fish! I'm sure they enjoy it! When I do water changes, I have to smooth out the rocks and straighten out the plants afterwards. Dot likes to swim between my fingers now, so I have to be very careful not to make sudden movements while my hand is in there - so I don't catch her tail or something! :D And Smokey doesn't hide from me anymore! He was never as affectionate as Dot, but at least now he doesn't swim away from me. I sure love my fishies!! :9

Take care, Everyone!! :hug

Debbie

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:heart Its great to hear you so happy, Debbie! You were so sad and worried when Smokey was sick, and your good humor is contagious!! :)

As for me, I am the female Job of the fish forum this week. Tonight I checked on my tropicals to feed them...I feel like I've neglected them do to all the attention to Moby and Florence...and the filter had died on their aquarium. Sigh. Imagine that. Its a small hexagon tank, and there's nowhere to get a filter to fit it, except online which I can't afford right now. So...another emergency. I had to tear their tank down. Luckily I still had the smaller tank that Moby and Florence used to be in, but guess what? That filter was in the big tank, along with the new filter I had to buy over the weekend when THAT old one went out. :krazy: In order to save the tropicals, I had to borrow the small filter from the big tank. The new filter I got filters 150 gallons an hour, so it should be sufficient for a while, but I'm sure removing the old filter set me back an ice age in the goldfish tank cycle. Since I lost so much BB in the tropical tank, I had to keep the same filter media in the filter as to hopefully not lose the tropicals, but now their ph is TOO HIGH! :whatjust:

Ya just gotta laugh, really, lol! I don't know what else can happen today, but the day isn't over yet, so maybe I shouldn't tempt fate! :yeah:

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Its great to hear you so happy, Debbie! You were so sad and worried when Smokey was sick, and your good humor is contagious!!

As for me, I am the female Job of the fish forum this week. Tonight I checked on my tropicals to feed them...I feel like I've neglected them do to all the attention to Moby and Florence...and the filter had died on their aquarium. Sigh. Imagine that. Its a small hexagon tank, and there's nowhere to get a filter to fit it, except online which I can't afford right now. So...another emergency. I had to tear their tank down. Luckily I still had the smaller tank that Moby and Florence used to be in, but guess what? That filter was in the big tank, along with the new filter I had to buy over the weekend when THAT old one went out. In order to save the tropicals, I had to borrow the small filter from the big tank. The new filter I got filters 150 gallons an hour, so it should be sufficient for a while, but I'm sure removing the old filter set me back an ice age in the goldfish tank cycle. Since I lost so much BB in the tropical tank, I had to keep the same filter media in the filter as to hopefully not lose the tropicals, but now their ph is TOO HIGH!

Ya just gotta laugh, really, lol! I don't know what else can happen today, but the day isn't over yet, so maybe I shouldn't tempt fate!

Vickie, you poor thing!! :hug:hug:hug

How is everything going? I hope your day got better yesterday. I agree with you 100% - why tempt fate by asking "What else could possibly go wrong?" cuz it'll probably show you. :blink:

Maybe your tropicals were jealous, and ruined the filter on purpose to get a little attention! You've seen Finding Nemo, right? They figured out how to break the filter! :yeah:

Seriously, I hope the loss of the filter doesn't set the cycle back too much. Maybe there will be enough bbs already in the tank and new filter to cover the loss of the other one, for now. I'm sure it's quite stressful to think you've almost got one situation fixed, then you get another and yet another. But you're doing a great job, and you're a great fish Mom! Just remember that everyone here at Koko's is right beside you with support and friendship! You're not alone!! :exactly

When it gets stressful, just look into their little fish faces, and remember that they're definitely worth the trouble!

Take care, Sweety! :bighug

Debbie

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Thanks Debbie! :hug I needed a hug today, lol! I posted about this in the nitrite fight thread as I didn't want to completely hijack your thread about Smokey. Today has been better, but its not over yet! Seems everything wants to happen around 9 or 10 at night before I go off to work so I can be in a tizzy when I leave! :krazy:

I'm slowly getting the ph down to more acceptable levels in the tropical tank, and the big tank is holding its own so far, so we may come out of this after all.

Thanks for the support, I appreciate it. There's no more filters to go bad, so we should be good to go.

LOL, I'd forgotten about that scene in Nemo. Maybe they DID get jealous!

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Thanks Debbie! :hug I needed a hug today, lol! I posted about this in the nitrite fight thread as I didn't want to completely hijack your thread about Smokey. Today has been better, but its not over yet! Seems everything wants to happen around 9 or 10 at night before I go off to work so I can be in a tizzy when I leave! :krazy:

I'm slowly getting the ph down to more acceptable levels in the tropical tank, and the big tank is holding its own so far, so we may come out of this after all.

Thanks for the support, I appreciate it. There's no more filters to go bad, so we should be good to go.

LOL, I'd forgotten about that scene in Nemo. Maybe they DID get jealous!

Hi Vickie! :hi

I'm glad that today has been better for you... so far. lol Your "manic hour" is still half an hour or so away. :peeka

Keep up the good work! With new filters, things should be much easier. ("Should" being the key word here - I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!)

Smokey is still doing great. He had a bit of stringy poo on him before, but then this afternoon's peas started making an appearance, and that looked normal. So I guess all is good there.

I'm guessing that he may be well enough to move this thread from the 911 - Emergency forum now. If anything else should come up, I could always post back on here. That way it'll keep just the urgent fish matters here.

The only concerns I have with Smokey now are his droopy tail, and I noticed that his tail is still frayed. I don't know if it's because it's droopy, so when he swims near the bottom, his tail drags on the gravel...? :idont

I keep asking my daughter to get some more pictures of him, and to try to get his mouth - to be sure the columnaris is completely cleared up, but I guess I bugged her a lot getting pictures before, because I haven't had any luck getting her to take any. I'll keep trying though! I'll hide her kitty, and tell her she'll get the kitty back when I get pictures!! :yeah: haha!!

Take care! :hug

Debbie

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:hi Hey Debbie!

How's Smokey doing? Did you ever hide your daughter's kitty so she'd take a picture?

Hope everything is still great! :)

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Hey Debbie!

How's Smokey doing? Did you ever hide your daughter's kitty so she'd take a picture?

Hope everything is still great!

Hi Vickie! :hi

No, I didn't hide her kitty. I actually forgot that I had said that, and might have a picture of him by now if I had tried! haha I tried to get some pictures yesterday, and I got quite a few pictures of an orange blurr. :hummm

Smokey isn't quite as active today as he has been. He's not bottom sitting or anything, but he's not playing in the water flow, or bugging Dot like he has been. He actually looks like he's bored, and is just swimming around. His dorsal fin isn't up very much, either. It never went completely up, it was staying at about halfway.

I'm still concerned with his tail being droopy and torn. They don't look any better. He's eating like a piglet, so there's no problem with an appetite. He hasn't caught up to Dot in size yet, but it hasn't even been two weeks yet that's he's been "normal", so I'm sure he'll catch up eventually.

On a positive (and sweet) note, Smokey "kissed" my finger yesterday during the water change! They always came up and "nibbled" on my finger, so I liked to think that it was a kiss - but when he was sick, he wouldn't let me near him. Yesterday, Dot was doing it, and he was watching. He got close a few times, but then swam away quick. Then he finally got up the nerve, and he kept coming back to give more "kisses". It was so cute - because he was still hesitant, but did it anyway. :D:heart

How are things with your tank, Vickie? I hope the cycling didn't take to big of a blow with the filter problems. I should say "tankS" - since you had issues with both, poor thing!!

Thanks for asking about Smokey! If anyone has any suggestions for Smokey's tail, please let me know!

:hug

Debbie

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Awww.....fish kisses! :heart

He sounds like he's well on his way to a complete recovery!

The tanks are doing better, and thanks for asking. The water in the big tank has finally cleared, although I'm still having some issues with ammonia. Its low, but its there, and I absolutely hate to have to do a 75 or 80% water change now that its finally cleared after 2 weeks. I'm showing some nitrates, so if it continues, I think I can get Zeolite or Amquel since that means the tank is cycling.

The tropical tank is fine. Weird thing, though. I used the water from the old tank and very little fresh as I had just done a water change and didn't want to upset their balance any more than necessary. I rinsed the gravel out in treated water also, and yesterday had a very high nitrite reading. This tank has been cycled for a long time and never had a nitrite reading at all. I quickly did a 40% water change yesterday, and about a 30% today and added some Stress Zyme and salt, and it went down, but not completely gone. I guess I'll have to get some Prime, but the lfs is closed till Tuesday, so I'll just keep an eye on it.

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Hi Debs!

Smokey's fins are still droopy you say- you may want to try salting. Now that you are done cycling it is so much easier to salt the tank. It will not affect Dot and will definitely help Smokey's slight frayed fins get better. You could try low salting to .1% and then .2% if there is no change. About a week should do it.

Do you know how to do that? With rock or pickling or sea salt? It's one teaspoon per gallon of tank water mixed well before adding.

Then repeat after 12 hours. Just twice will get you to .2%. You need to replace salt removed at w/cs so its a good idea to do a w/c before starting on salt. Salt is not harsh on fish at this dose and it does help heal fin damage.

You asked about best sinking pellets. Many people here recommened Pro-Gold sinking pellets. I can't get the same kinds as you can in the US but use Saki-Hikari 'breeder preferred'(it says!) amongst others which I think you can also get over there.

There are other ideas in the fishfood forum.

Fish kisses? Sounds like your fish are very happy and getting quite tame :D

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Hi Debs!

Smokey's fins are still droopy you say- you may want to try salting. Now that you are done cycling it is so much easier to salt the tank. It will not affect Dot and will definitely help Smokey's slight frayed fins get better. You could try low salting to .1% and then .2% if there is no change. About a week should do it.

Thank you Trinket! :hi

I noticed last night that Dot's pectoral fins are frayed a bit now, too. What would cause that, when the water has been fine? Or maybe I just didn't notice it before, being more conerned with Smokey...? :unsure:

Do you know how to do that? With rock or pickling or sea salt? It's one teaspoon per gallon of tank water mixed well before adding.

Then repeat after 12 hours. Just twice will get you to .2%. You need to replace salt removed at w/cs so its a good idea to do a w/c before starting on salt. Salt is not harsh on fish at this dose and it does help heal fin damage.

I have aquarium/conditioning salt. Would that be the same thing, or should I head to the store for one of those you had listed?

You asked about best sinking pellets. Many people here recommened Pro-Gold sinking pellets. I can't get the same kinds as you can in the US but use Saki-Hikari 'breeder preferred'(it says!) amongst others which I think you can also get over there.

There are other ideas in the fishfood forum.

I have heard the name Pro-Gold a lot. I'll see if the vvvv here has them. I need to get them some new food, since I just recently read on here that food should be tossed after it has been open for six months. I think the one I have is from February - so it's time for it to go! :)

Fish kisses? Sounds like your fish are very happy and getting quite tame :D

I hope they're happy! Dot will take peas from my fingers. I guess she remembers that I was feeding Smokey by hand - when she was trying to steal it from him.

When I hear back about the salt, I'll get that started - and keep you posted on their progress.

Thank you! :hug

"Debs"

You know, my Dad used to call me Debs - and hardly anyone else. Funny that I read this today - on what would have been his 79th birthday. :)

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:hug That's nice Debbie :) . I count the years since my Dad died too and i'm glad Debs was meaningful and not forward of me!

The frayed fins could well be wear and tear from the stress of having been in the tank as it cycled. Ideally a fish tank should be 'cycled' fishless. When you cycle a tank with the fish in you are exposing the fish to the toxic shock and abrasive effects of the inevitable prescence of ammonia and nitrite in the water.

I think thats all this is. Its a 'result' symptom rather than a 'pre/warning' symptom I suspect. (if a symptom can be either!)

The aquarium salt has all kinds of conditioners etc in. You can use it but personally I don't. I like to use plain ol'sea salt. Pickling salt is the cheapest and works well too. We get a kind of very fine crushed sea salt here that dissolves fast. It must be well dissolved first in a bowl of tank water. Make sure there is no iodine in the salt you use which will damage your cycle or prussiate of soda or anticaking agents.

Here's a link that should help you with salting

How to use salt

Let us know how things go :)

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Awww.....fish kisses! :heart

He sounds like he's well on his way to a complete recovery!

The tanks are doing better, and thanks for asking. The water in the big tank has finally cleared, although I'm still having some issues with ammonia. Its low, but its there, and I absolutely hate to have to do a 75 or 80% water change now that its finally cleared after 2 weeks. I'm showing some nitrates, so if it continues, I think I can get Zeolite or Amquel since that means the tank is cycling.

Hi Vickie!

I'm sorry that you're having ammonia issues again. but at least the tank is clear, right? What do you want, everything??? :rofl Just teasing, of course!

I still haven't started on the 55 gallon tank. The stand hubby wanted for the tank wasn't a fish tank stand, so he's going to "buff it up" to a super sturdy one, with extra plywood on the top, back and bottom, 2x4 and 1x4 legs inside and out... I think it'll hold a truck when he's done. :exactly But he just got the wood the other day. The trip kind of got in the way of getting it up and running. Now I need to find pure ammonia to start the cycling process. My grocery store only had their own brand, and it has surfactant in it - which I found on here - isn't a good ammonia to use. I have to head out tomorrow for sea salt, or pickling salt so I'll see what I can find in ammonia.

The tropical tank is fine. Weird thing, though. I used the water from the old tank and very little fresh as I had just done a water change and didn't want to upset their balance any more than necessary. I rinsed the gravel out in treated water also, and yesterday had a very high nitrite reading. This tank has been cycled for a long time and never had a nitrite reading at all. I quickly did a 40% water change yesterday, and about a 30% today and added some Stress Zyme and salt, and it went down, but not completely gone. I guess I'll have to get some Prime, but the lfs is closed till Tuesday, so I'll just keep an eye on it.

Do you think the stirring of the gravel could have raised the nitrite reading? I've been reading about hidden "nasties" that could lurk under the gravel - since I plan on taking the gravel from the current tank to put in the larger one to help it cycle. I hope it straightens out quick for you!

With the new cycling, I was thinking that since it's about time to change the filter cartridge in the current filter, I wondered if it would be a good idea to just rinse that in some tank water, and put that in the new filter. It's a Penguin 350, and has extra slots for more media. Maybe it's a bad idea... but maybe someone on here would know...?

Do you have any new pictures of Moby & Florence? My oldest daughter came today and tried to take some pictures of Smokey. She said he doesn't stay still long enough to take a picture - which is the same complaint my other daughter used. As far as Smokey goes, I guess that's a good thing!! :bingo:

:hug

Debbie

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Hi Debbie! :rolleyes:

You know, I hadn't thought about the gravel. I just thought it was a good thing to move it there, and I rinsed it in tank water, but that possibly could've been it. It seems to be fine now, although I've run out of tester and have to get some more. It tested fine yesterday, though, in the tropical tank. Good thinkin' girl...you're turning into a pro! :exactly

I'll post some more pics tomorrow. You have to literally sit there and take like 20 to get one or two good ones, as they will not cooperate and hold still.

Keep us up to date when you start cycling your big tank!

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That's nice Debbie . I count the years since my Dad died too and i'm glad Debs was meaningful and not forward of me!

Hi Trinket!

Don't worry - I didn't think it was too forward at all. It brought back a pleasant memory. :)

The frayed fins could well be wear and tear from the stress of having been in the tank as it cycled. Ideally a fish tank should be 'cycled' fishless. When you cycle a tank with the fish in you are exposing the fish to the toxic shock and abrasive effects of the inevitable prescence of ammonia and nitrite in the water.

I think thats all this is. Its a 'result' symptom rather than a 'pre/warning' symptom I suspect. (if a symptom can be either!)

That's great news!

The aquarium salt has all kinds of conditioners etc in. You can use it but personally I don't. I like to use plain ol'sea salt. Pickling salt is the cheapest and works well too. We get a kind of very fine crushed sea salt here that dissolves fast. It must be well dissolved first in a bowl of tank water. Make sure there is no iodine in the salt you use which will damage your cycle or prussiate of soda or anticaking agents.

Here's a link that should help you with salting

How to use salt

Let us know how things go :)

I'll head out for some salt tomorrow. I didn't see your post until after I did my shopping today. I need to look for ammonia, too - as I stated in the above post. I can't wait to get the fishies in the new tank, but with all that Smokey's been through, not to mention the tank already re-cycling with them in it, all the more I'd prefer putting them into a cycled tank.

Thank you for your help - and the link was very useful! I do have kosher salt - but it has the anti-caking stuff in it, so it's no good.

I'll be sure to keep you posted! :thumb:

:hug

Debbie

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Hi Debbie!

You know, I hadn't thought about the gravel. I just thought it was a good thing to move it there, and I rinsed it in tank water, but that possibly could've been it. It seems to be fine now, although I've run out of tester and have to get some more. It tested fine yesterday, though, in the tropical tank. Good thinkin' girl...you're turning into a pro!

:D A pro? I don't think so.. Unless a pro is someone who reads something somewhere and passes it on to someone else... hopefully remembering all of the important points! lol

I'll post some more pics tomorrow. You have to literally sit there and take like 20 to get one or two good ones, as they will not cooperate and hold still.

Well, I suppose if they were hams, they couldn't be fish - right? :yeah: I'm looking forward to more pictures!

Keep us up to date when you start cycling your big tank!

Absotu-dalutely! I can't wait to get it started! I hope hubby will use his next days off getting the stand ready! The fishies are going to LOVE it in there! :wub:

:hug

Debbie

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gallery_14029_527_4720.jpgHey Debbie! Here's a new picture of Moby and Florence...sort of like "What are YOU lookin' at?!" A little blurry, but they just won't hold still! I have more, but don't want to totally hi-jack your thread with pics, lol!

Clear water and a cycled tank, finally!! Hallelujah!!!!! :pianobanana

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Hey Debbie! Here's a new picture of Moby and Florence...sort of like "What are YOU lookin' at?!" A little blurry, but they just won't hold still! I have more, but don't want to totally hi-jack your thread with pics, lol!

Clear water and a cycled tank, finally!! Hallelujah!!!!!

Hey Vickie! :hi

What a great picture! I'm sure they were moving, but they look like they're just sitting there - trying to plan something - and got caught in the act! They are SOOO CUTE!! :wub:

And congratulations on FINALLY getting the tank settled!! :clapping::rockon It was a long haul - with a few stumbles along the way - but well worth it for your fish!

Now you can relax and enjoy the fish, and rest your back, arms and legs after lugging all that water! :rest:

Thank you for the picture! You should post some in the photo section, and then you can go wild with pictures! I'd love to see more!

Congrats again!!! :thumbs:

:hug

Debbie

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Thanks Debbie!

They do look like little stinkers getting caught in the act of something, don't they? Look, you are either going to have to get your daughter to take some pics, or learn how to use a digital camera yourself and get some pics of Smokey and Dot in their new home! I just can't wait to see them swimming around in that big tank, and can't wait to see the stand your hubby bolstered up for you after he claimed they were "just fish", lol! :tomuch:

We almost lost our fish, but we got through it, didn't we? Hopefully, no backsteps for a good while, anyway! :hi5

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