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hlim

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It has also raised the scales in the infected area. Is that normal as well? It would seem like something is coming out from the inside to raise the scales like that.

But if it is really saprolegnia water fungus, how should I treat that?

I only have money for 1 QT which I am already using for Sploodles. How shall I treat Pudgey?

Thank you for your help again, Trinket!! :)

Bacteria will be inside the fish..your fish is not well and its immunity is impaired. This means the natural phagocytosis process(protection of the outer cells from invading bacteria/parasites via process of neutralisation) is impaired. The fish cannot protect itself as well as it could when the slime coat was intact. Opportunist bacteria enter and produce a gas -put simply- that bloats the fish and the scales pop out.

Sometimes people use formaldehyde for fungus but if you have an opening/lesion on the fish I strongly recommend you do not. Actually we are back to the benefits of correct salting. Caught early .3% salt will heal this. Believe me, I have treated this on my own fish a couple of times successfully.

I recommend you vacuum that gravel well- where toxins and mould collect. Do a water change (how much depends on when you last did one and your nitrates)..and then begin salting this tank at once.

What are you feeding the fish and how is his poop?

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His poop is usually long and thick; Pudgey eats a lot... I've been feeding Medi-gold to all of my fish for the last 3 weeks now. I actually just received my Metro-med today, 3/4 of which I clumsily spilled all over my carpet.. sigh... :( ) I just fed Sploodles and Pudgey their first feeding of Metro-med and will continue this for the next 2 weeks. Will it be okay to feed the rest of my fish Metro-med as well, or should I continue with the Medi-gold for the rest of them?

I will salt my tank ASAP. How long did it take for you on average to treat saprolegnia fungus?

Also, will it be okay to return Sploodles into the .3% salted tank after 2 weeks of Metro-med knowing he may puff again?

Thank you!!!

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Yodles I am now a little confused about how many fish you have and where they all are :D

Quick summary..Spoodles is recovering from dropsy with epsom salt and metromed to eat in the QT..right?

Pudgey has how many tank mates and how are they all doing?

Pudgey has the fungus but is eating well.

Everyone gets the medigold.

Let's take Spoodles one day at atime. Finish his course of metromed in the QT and you can discuss again about him then.

For Pudgey (great news that he is eating well and doing good fat poops- excellent :thumb: !) I think he doesn't look so bad. His fins are not clamped and he is swimming well- I think he can beat this fairly fast. Maybe even in a week.

I should start the salt at .1% . How big is the tank?

That's one level teaspoon per gallon of water in the tank...dissolved very well first in tank water...repeat after 12 hours and then again after another 12 hours and only use rock non iodised-see salt thread)

Leave the salt till the fungus goes. It may be a week, it may be 2 weeks or more. You have to give salt time. And you have to replace what you take out as Missy Draven said a while back when you do your water changes. Thats very important because lowering the salt before its got to work will set you back with the healing process. The salt does 3 things. Kills the mould (like algae and plants it is sensitive to salt) assists the fish repair cells by reducing electrolyte levels and improving osmotic differentials as said and also as a salve for the wounded area.

Its a good idea to write down how much salt is going in and out. So easy to get confused. I have totally lost track numerous times when dosing salt :krazy: and really need to write it down. Best of luck.

And sorry about spilling the metromed- its easily done. And in answer to the Q I don't think you need to feed it to a fish that isn't sick.

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Spoodles is recovering from dropsy with epsom salt and metromed to eat in the QT..right? right!

Pudgey has how many tank mates and how are they all doing? He has two others in there.

Pudgey has the fungus but is eating well. Yes.

Everyone gets the medigold. Yes.

I will update you on Pudgey if there are any improvements/further problems.

As for Sploodles, I often see him swimming tilted. Maybe all the skin/gill flukes are not gone yet... There are so many problems at once, it is really frustrating.

Thanks again!

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Oh! Another thing, I have an otocinclus in my main tank.. I read that they are very hard to keep alive. With it's daily clean-up and the salt killing the algae, is my oto in trouble? I bought it those vege algae wafers for algae eaters. I am scared that it might die.

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As long as they are continually fed they are moderately hardy critters. I don't think it will die. Have you tried sticking a half cucumber or zucchini in on a suction clip to feed off? My catfish love those and when they run out of algae they can be found stuck on the zucchini sucking it to nothing- for days!! The algae will return don't worry. this is temporary. If you do the salting in 3 stages slowly I think he may be okay with it. Mine were. If you are worried you could move him. The main thing is to make sure he has plenty of food -a constant supply. the algae or spirulina wafers are great but you could also try some fresh veg too :)

You are doing very well and covering all your fishes needs and troubles so well. Good work!!

Oh and as for Spoodles and the tilted swimming- the tilted swimming can be symptomatic of parasite burden ,make sure you get rid of those parasites eggs that bury into gravel and stick on surfaces, then hatch. When I have outbreaks I will be doing gravel vacs twice daily morning and night to suck those tiny b*s up...and wiping down the tank walls with a piece of sponge filter media/nylon will get rid of several hundred eggs probably too! The idea is to lower the number of parasites/bacteria in the water so the fish can cope. They are able to cope with some in the water its when the numbers skyrocket that disease begins.

Keep us updated :)

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My small pearlscale fish, Tangerine, died this morning and I have no clue as to why. I saw him around 5 AM this morning and he was swimming fine! He never showed any symptoms of anything (except that when I first got him, he had a large fish louse on his belly which I picked off). So when I saw him laying dead in one of my silk plants, I was very shocked and surprised. His jaw area has become veinier but his fins were not clamped when he died. It is as if he was swimming and suddenly just tilted over and passed away. I took a picture in case anyone wanted to see him to maybe try to diagnose the problem (will attach upon request).

Pudgey's infected area actually looks worse this morning--it is much redder. He is bottom sitting with 1 clamped fin and has shallow breathing. Is it normal for the condition to get worse before it gets any better?

And I will try the zucchini and/or cucumber! Thanks!

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I performed a 33% water change. There was a lot of waste even though my water parameters checked out fine. I hope that wasn't the reason Tangerine died...

Well, Pudgey isn't eating again. He is floating more than he is swimming. I hope the water change will help.

I'm still trying Pima/Melafix to try to help Pudgey and will stop if you advise me to do so.

Thank you!

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Oh Hlim, I am so sorry that you have lost two of your fishies!!! :( I am new here, so I really don't know what could have caused all that happened. I am also new to owning fish. I just wanted to let you know how sorry I am that your fish died. How is Sploodles doing?

Nickie

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Thank you for your kind words, Nickie. :) I hope all of your goldfish are healthy and doing well!

Sploodles is very active and his scales are not pineconed anymore! Thanks for your concern! :)

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Hlim- I am so so sorry. I have been away the weekend and just got back to read this sad news. I was hoping that Pudgey would make a full recovery. He seemed to have such a fighting spirit :(

And I am sorry about Tangerine :cry1

I think there is a lot that has been going on in this tank that wasn't maybe caught in time. The fungus once it gets blood spots is harder to treat - not impossible at all but the condition (with any bloody area around an open lesion) is going to be much more vulnerable to secondary infection and needs perfect water with no other stressors.

I think one of the hardest things is keeping on cleaning a tank when a fish is weak. It seems more natural to let a fish rest and not bother them at all, but if there was a lot of waste in the gravel (and who doesn't have that- yikes I can't believe how much muck collects in mine)even the common gram neg bacteria that lives alongside our fish all the time, day in day out- become a serious threat. that is why most times it is best to remove the sick fishies and treat them in a separate home/tub in crystal clean water with no accumulating bacteria.

One of the things going on here was the lack of asecond QT. It was hard to move your fish because your spare tank was occupied by Spoodels (glad to hear he is doing well at least).

Again I am so very very sorry about Pudgey and Tangerine :hug .

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Welcome back, Trinket! Your help is always appreciated, no matter what may happen.

Hehe, I really loved Pudgey. 2 months ago, he was also so active and excited to see me everytime I enter the room. Poor guy... Now I really want to get to the bottom of this!! My last fish in the main tank has been less active, usually hiding behind a small bush, breathing heavily. The fish, Strawberry Banana (SB) has not improved with water changes. His dorsal fin is usually up and his fins are not clamped. I'm currently feeding SB Medi-gold.

Something strange is going on in my QT as well. No matter how soiled the ground is the previous night, it is spotless in the morning. I initially thought that it was because Sploodles would swallow and spit the poo out, then the poo would eventually get sucked into the filter--but I don't think this is the case. I just witnessed Sploodles swallow poo and NOT spit it out. Why is he eating his own poo? I feed Sploodles 1-2 pellets of Metro-meds twice a day.

Also, a small area under his anal fins has become pointier. The pointy area looks like a vein that leads to the anus. Also, a small area under his pectoral fins has become rounder. I noticed this small spot under his pectoral fins when he was having slight dropsy. He has no pineconed scales now though.

Here are a few pictures:

p8270454cw9.th.jpg

You can notice the pointy anus here.

p8270447au2.th.jpg

Here is a picture of the round area under/between his pectoral fins.

On the bottle of Metro-med, it says to feed no other food except Metro-med for 14 days. Are there no exceptions? I ask because I want to feed Sploodles some peas. Okay, that's all for now. Thank you!

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It isn't unusual for a hungry fish to eat his own poo. They will usually spit it out unless there is still nutrtional content in it- in which case they may eat it again. I imagine Spoodles is getting his appetite back which is good and it isn't something to worry about if he is eating it.

But I wonder if one or 2 pellets is enough at a time. He needs to build up his strength. Is that the recommeneded dosage>I am not familiar with the metromed.

I did read one of the Mods here say it was okay to feed an occasional pea if he is very hungry with the medigold so I think it would be allright to do so. No other commercial food. And make sure he still eats the metromed (if not- no more peas :) )

I looked at the pics and I honestly cannot find any problems..it may be my eyes... but I can't see what you describe. He may just be healing and what you are seeing is more noticeable now you are watching him so closely. Tiny pimples for example can also be bacterial and the metromed should help there. And no alarm bells are ringing for me on your other descriptions. Give him a few more days and if you are still worried take some more pics and post back. You can always post them in anew thread to get more opinions.

I'm hoping the medigold/salt will help your SB- I am presuming your pH is stable with all the water changes and the salt dosage is on track. Did this fish get a round of prazipro a while back or am I confused?

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I've been changing the water without adding salt because I thought the high temperature and salinity might have brought him to his current weak state. I will reimplement the salt if you suggest I do so.

SB hasn't improved much since the last time I've posted. He sits in the same corner of the tank night and day, but he is still eating, thank goodness. He has the same symptoms: breathing heavily, lethargic.. He did receive a round of Prazipro a while back with the other fish.

What should I do?

P.S. Sploodles is doing fine! He's still eating poo though. But other than that, I'll try not to mind every single small detail. Thank you!

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So lets just recap. SB is on his own now in the tank that Pudgey and Tangerine were in ?> I am wondering if you shouldn't be doing a major filter clean on that tank. How is your cycle? Are you still getting zeros for ammonia nd nitrite, how are the nitrates?

Even if water params are perfect though they do not tell you how much potentailly dangerous bacteria you have in a tank. It just keeps on accumulating. I have just done a huge filter clean out on one of my fry tanks and couldn't believe the strings of gunk inside the filter pipes. Ugh. And that tank has only been up and running 3 months..perhaps your recent clean up will have helped somewhat .

I realise you are not really keen on salting so am trying to work around that for SB. You say he is isolating himself,bottom sitting and breathing heavily but no clamped fins and he is eating the medigold? Anything else today?

Did you try the Maracyn with these fish? It might be the next step..in pristene water. I am just getting the feeling this may have been an overwhelming bacterial build up that turned nasty :(

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Yes, he is in the tank Pudgey and Tangerine were in. Tangerine died mysteriously, so there must be something in the tank. I will clean my filter out today, but I have a few questions regarding that. I'm scared of upsetting the beneficial bacteria/cycle, so what shall I do with the filter media while I'm cleaning the filter? Is it bad to leave the sponge/bio rings out, or should I keep them in a bucket of my aquarium water? Shall I wring the sponge clean too?

I don't mind using salt at all actually. When I found SB bottom-sitting and breathing heavily, I tested the water. The results were normal, so I just assumed the salt and heat were too much. I am very willing to take your advice, so please, throw it at me! SB does not have clamped fins and I'm currently feeding him Metro-meds (to try to move on to a stronger antibiotic).

I used Maracyn before, when I was positng about the post-ich problems in the other thread. I have 6 packets left, shall I use it? Should I get another box of Maracyn II as well?

I will retest my water parameters tonight!

Thank you!!

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Okay here's a rundown. This is what I have just done (yesterday) because I had 2 bottom sitting fry.

Have at the ready 3 clean buckets or clean plastic containers filled with primed, treated (very important) water, preferably temp matched and pH matched but definately de-chlorinated de-chloramined= primed or amquelled.

Turn off both/all filters. Remove fish to rubbermaid container treated & temp and pH matched.

Note: You do not have to do this if the fish is very weak it may be better to let him stay in the tank while you clean- its your call if you can work around him fine. Its harder with more fish but with one you can do it easily.

Bring container 1 as close to the tank as poss and take out all media including sponges, hoops, the lot and dump it in the treated water container. If you can add an airstone all the better- the good biobugs will do fine in there for a short time, with an airstone even longer. If you don't have a spare airstone put the bucket/container in a cool place. Make sure all media is submerged.

Then take off the pipes and pieces including impeller/sides that make up the filter hardware. In a separate container rinse these well, scrub pipe insides with an old cleaned toothbrush and replace them. This is the most important part of the cleaning. Clogged pipes capture a whole army of bad bugs and there are fewer biobugs in the pipes so no worries about giving those a really good scrub.

As soon as you are done set it all up again. Speed is fairly important- don't answer your phone calls :)

Next, swill around -do not scrub-the media in the other bucket and put all the media stuff back in. Turn on the filter.

At this point there will be an explosion of gunk - however well you clean it is inevitable. It will not hurt the fish and it should clear after approx 30 minutes of filter running. Be patient.

You are done! If you only have one filter running don't do a water change yet. Wait a day so the biobugs get swirled around and relocated properly. If however you have 2 or 3 filters running you can do a large water change. Repeat the filter cleaning a few days later for filter 2 and then a few days later for filter 3 etc.

This should make a huge difference in bacterial count. Here's a fact, in every one cubic centimetre of 3 day old tank water there will be more than 10 million suspended bacteria. Many of these are potential killers to our fish. But they do not harm a fish with a strong immunity, one that is not sick, eats good nutritious food and has few or no stressors in his environment.

Then you get the stressors, a wound, a pH plunge, bad water params etc and the immunity plunges and these same bacteria become life threatening. to the same fish.

In your case 2 dead fish will have had bacteria soaring (andflourishing in the filter media) and one weak fish will be vulnerable to these bacteria that once he lived happily with.

Don't be scared to clean the filter/s. It really needs doing and water changes alone are not enough right now, or ever in fact. If you can reduce the bacterial count he has a much better chance in good water..There will still be cycled media there if you only swirl it/rinse it, so don't worry about that. Its the filter hardware that needs a good clean out.

When you get that done let's see how he is before adding any more meds. I hope we are in time for him.

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WOW! Thanks so much for taking the time to write out such a detailed procedure for me!! I followed it exactly when I was cleaning my filter last night. This morning, SB isn't breathing as hard (just a tad slowly), and he's still bottom sitting.

I'm gradually turning the temperature down in Sploodle's QT. It is at 72 degrees right now. Is this okay? I'm not adding epsom salt anymore, just feeding Metro-meds.

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Sounds fine. Spoodles seems almost better. I'm hoping SB will be up swimming again soon. Give him a little time and continue with the

medicated food. I'll keep checking back here.

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Hey!

Well, SB is still bottom sitting and all, but he comes to me when I tap on the glass. When I go away or turn the lights back off, he goes back to bottom sitting. Other than that being a tiny bit more active, he hasn't really improved too much. I'm really glad hes still alive though. :) Any suggestions on what I should be doing? Thanks~!

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Hello!

Today, SB wasn't bottom sitting, but mostly floating around. I noticed that he has a minor case of fin rot. Is this possible to treat without meds? I do not want to take any chances pushing a fish sick over the edge!

Thanks!

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Hi again Hlim :) !

When you say floating do you mean swimming? I am hoping so!

Salt (as you tried once before) is very good for finrot in early stages. Perhaps you could try the salt. Or add some melafix, either should work if you catch it in time Hlim. Poor SB h's not quite over all this is he...

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