Mckenzie My 6inch Fantail

[Newfishmom 0]

Ok...I am using photobucket - I am worried, the spots are getting LARGER not smaller - now that I look at one of them, it appears to be slightly raised, and it didn't a few days earlier...help..

McKenzie is showing no other symptoms now - I have the Maracyns in - she is not clamped, bottom sitting, flashing, nothing. I am flipping out!

Edited July 24, 2007 by Newfishmom

[Lolafish 1]

Something I found online that may or may not apply:

New Disease? Black Smudge

Over the months, Goldfish Sanctuary has received an increasing number of

requests about an unknown disease which we have nicknamed "Black Smudge." This

disease does not seem to be mentioned in any of the fish manuals, and

information is hard to come by. As part of our renovations, a section is being

put onto our site about this mysterious disease. However, we would like to

thank Eric Himmer for sending us information on his occurance of Black Smudge,

and the cure he has discovered! Here is an excerpt from a letter he so kindly

sent to us at the Goldfish Sanctuary:

"We had black spots on one of our three goldfish... and everyone thought

that it was a color change ... so we let it go until a blackspot started

showing up on the dorsal fin of one of the other goldfish (the first fish

was quite black ... like it had rolled around on a oil spill!).

"So, we bought some Maracyn-Two ... a general purpose antibiotic ... and

thought we'd try it even though it did not describe the symptoms we were

seeing.

"We did it for at least one five-day plan (maybe twice, but I'm not sure)...

and about 2 weeks later *all* the black spots were gone... and it's been a

few months now, and they have not returned.

"We also noticed a high ammonia reading, and we have been trying to monitor

that quite a bit now ... so I don't know if it was the Maracyn-Two or the

cancelling of the ammonia that got rid of the spots... but since only one

fish showed a severe black spot problem, I suspect that the Maracyn-Two

cleared it up rather than the lower ammonia."

[Newfishmom 0]

Black Spot Disease - eek! I am on my fifth day today of Maracyn II and there seems to be more - should I do another round? I don't want to lose McKenzie - you should see how pretty she is - she is such a good fish, she eats right out of my hand...

[Lolafish 1]

Is McKenzie QT'd through all of this? I re-read your posts, but don't remember you saying that or not. I might be worried about it being contagious.

I hope she gets better soon. She seems to have your , that's for sure.

[Trinket 108]

That's really interesting Lola!!

In my Japanese guide book - and this is a translation -.."black discoloration spots may appear when fish is exposed to any change in the water environment including even extra water changes or medication"

If you have the Maracyns in that would surely be appropriate for the black smudge - and if it is discoloration then you don't have to worry anyway.

If you think the black spots are getting larger- could it just be the normal development of discoloration spots?

The raised fungal lesion types spots or viral or pox type are usually tan or amber not as black as these I think. Unless the discoloration and an ulcer were to go together. Bacterial ulcers also do well with Maracyn...

[Newfishmom 0]

McKenzie is not quarantined, but my two other small fantails had some white stringy poop so the Maracyns can only help them - that was my thinking. Plus, the other two are major upside down floaters - over a year now -

Maybe it is just the normal development of black spots, I guess I have to remain faithful and keep my eye on her - only time will tell. Do you guys think I should do one more round of the Maracyns to be safe?

[Trinket 108]

Personally, I think I might give her a few days break. Then, perhaps try another round depending how she is.

The only symptoms left on McK are these black smudge spots right? If they do not get worse in the interim or any other secondary issues don't appear you may be fine with just perfect water and good nutrition and faith that these are just discoloration.

On the other hand if you feel she is getting floaty, lethargic you could re-dose after the interim. I would still give her a few days off meds to observe.

How long have your other 2 had this kind of poop? I find it goes with sbd. I have one proven male fish that has it right now and he is an occasional flipper and has it on and off for years. Sometimes with a couple of small bubbles at the end.

[daryl 11]

The "Black Smudge Disease" does state that the fish was exposed to raised ammoina levels. Healing ammonia burns do appear as black smudges. It is common to not be able to see an ammonia burn on a fish - until it starts to heal - at which time it turns black. Large ammonia burns can start turning black - appear to enlarge in the blackened areas as they slowly heal through the entire wound area. After a time, the fish heals and the color returns to normal.

If McKensie has been bottom sitting in the past as you have stated, it is entirely possible that there is some mechanical injury to the bottom of her belly - where she was in contact with the tank bottom (gravel?) This injury could be as little as a minor abrasion from being rocked back and forth across the glass/gravel of the tank bottom as the tank's currents passed by her. As these minor abrasions start to heal, they can turn black. The ones that heal the soonest start turning soonest. The worst injuries take the longest to heal - turn black. This could mean that the areas as increasing in size - as more and more areas start to heal.

She has had a round of MaracynII. This is generally a good anitibiotic - attacking both gram + and gran - bacteria. Remember, though, even as the bad bacteria that is effecting a fish is killed, the fish will still bear the symptoms and problems produced by that bad bacteria. It takes time to heal. It just may be that, now that the worst of it is controled, McKensie is finding "time" to heal the abrasions on her belly.

The PRazi, too, is a GREAT treatment. If there were flukes - and it is probably a pretty good bet that you had flukes with a consequential bacterial infection - the PRazi will take care of them. I like to do three round - 48 hours apart - and then wait and scope. You can wait and watch. REmove the parasites that are irritating the gills - and you will remove the base of the problem, but the damage done to the gills takes time to heal. A fish whose gills have been compromised by gill flukes will continue to have difficulties for many weeks as the gills heal - you may still see the surface hovering as the fish attempts to get enough oxygen - for it is difficult to process it with damaged gills. As the fish heals, it should decrease surface hovering.

I think I would either do one more round of PRazi at a 48 hour mark - or just wait and watch. Give the fish time to heal. Keep your eyes open and check carefully but realize that it does take time.

If you feel that there is perhaps a relapse or a returning problem, it will not hurt to do another round of Prazi or three, as well as a combo Maracyn I and II. Those drugs are designed to be able to be used together - I rarely use them alone. I do not like using antibiotics unless it is necessary - but when deemed necessary, I hit the problem with all that I can - as hard and aggressively as possible.

Good luck. Remember - you sound like things are getting better but do not relax your vigilance. They may be - and all will be GREAT. But flukes/bacteria are sneaky things.......

[Newfishmom 0]

Thanks Trinket! Thanks Daryl - I am going to wait and keep the water PERFECT for a few days and see what happens. My tank has NO GRAVEL and her bottom sitting was for about a day - I am going to keep my fingers crossed and watch her -

As for my two baby fish, they have chronic SBD - if the water params are PERFECT and the food is all gel, they don't flip but anything else - even Pro Gold - and they flip. They've been that way for close to a year and a half...

I really appreciate everything you guys. I just love this board, bless your hearts - and thanks for being there for me.

[Lolafish 1]

Sounds like you are in good hands. Here's hoping for a quick recovery.

[Newfishmom 0]

Thanks everyone...fingers crossed....

[sea 0]

How's she doing? How do the black spots look?

[Newfishmom 0]

Hi Sea, hi everyone. She is ok, BUT the black spots have spread and are more. No other symptoms, though. I just can't figure it out - she is eating fine, etc., but those spots just freak me out. I don't know if I should treat her with another dose of the Maracyns or just keep watching her and keep the water clean -any ideas?

[sea 0]

I am glad she seems to feel well and I would probably just keep monitoring her (with the maracyn at the ready!) but I really don't know.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Ranchugirl 17]

NewfishMom, I'll move this out of the 911 section for now, since your fish seems to be doing better. Watch him closely, and whenever you feel that he needs some help again, or he gets other symptoms besides the black spots, PLEASE, feel free to dig up this thread again.