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Help! Fantail Floating On Top!


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By the way if a person like me does not know much about fish, and wants to reach the 200 post mark for other priviledges like PM etc. what can we post on????

Hey Pixiefish, are u there???

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God! This is the pits! I've just come back on before going to bed and no one is helping you!

I've PM'd a couple of mods and so did Shamu. I just don't understand.

I was wondering about eggs but I'm just not sure. The idea of a tumor sounds very possible, too. It's certainly a strange shape and only on one side.

I don't know what you can do while you're still fry. Try looking on the 'How to' section while I do some PMing.

I'm gonna try Devs and anyone else who is logged on.

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oh, Im sorry noone is helping u, I tried to PM toothless, Devs, and Ranchugirl. Ranchugirl was the only one that answered my message. I'll try to get another mods attention, ur poor fishie seems to be in bad shape, I sure hope he pulls through.

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This sucks but everyone is offline! What an unbelievable bummer. Just don't know what else to do.

I'm signing off for bed now, so hopefully Shamu can continue trying for you as she's on your time zone.

Will catch up t/mrrw

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I pm'd another mod, only one got the message so far :( , but I wont give up, ur little fishie shouldnt have to suffer this long, I hope he gets better soon :goodluck

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Thanks Shamu, You have continued to help me a lot.

I'm going to have to sign off now. See you all tomorrow!!!!!!!!! Hope I get some idea about what to do. Its hard sitting in front of the computer all day waiting for help as Comet keeps suffering.

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Hi there. :)

Sorry about not being here sooner. I thought my first received PM was referring me to a different thread....

I noticed that you haven't stated that you've tried fasting. I also noticed that you haven't commented on whether or not Comet is pooping. Have you? Is Comet pooping?

This is beginning to sound like a problem that has been exacerbated by poor advice from the local fish shop. Medicated food, in no way, should ever be given to a goldfish that is only exhibiting SBD issues. The stress induced by the introduction of medications can often do more harm than good if the medication isn't called for. The same goes for the "fungus" treatment. There really ought to be a law against allowing store employees to give advice about treatment if they aren't using some sort of protocol method. It's obviously to me that the word protocol wasn't even in the employees vocabulary.... :(

I would fast this fish for a few days to see if that will help. That is, unless this has been tried recently. In truth, there really isn't much more you can do for your goldie (besides what you've tried already) other than try to make its life a little better.

Swelling on one side of the body generally indicates a growth of an internal tumor or egg impaction. If egg impaction were the problem, you could try to gently strip the eggs. However, this could conceivably cause damage if the swelling was due to a tumor. If done correctly though, eggs will be released if that is the case. This is entirely up to you.....

Have you ever heard of an SBD sling? In the pic below, you will see a strip going across the fish's body. This is gauze. Tied to the gauze at the top is a section of string wich has a small piece of styrofoam. This is for sinking fish. The string at the bottom has a small weight tied to it. This is for floaters/flippers. This string really only needs to be as long as it takes to tie the weight to the gauze. The weight can actually be wrapped inside of the gauze to eliminate the string. This method works great but you have to be really good about using a new piece of gauze every day or two. Use lots of vaseline and/or triple antibiotic ointment so that the gauze doesn't rub the slime away from the skin too much.

Lets see if I can get this to load for you.....

post-1193-1182390675_thumb.jpg

I will go and look for a video of a breeder hand stripping eggs for you. This might be a possibility for you. I can't be sure yet though.......

Post back soon. :unsure:

Paul

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Thanks for the advice toothless!!! Yes I have tried fasting Comet for a few days at a time about 3 times already. I thought that would help bring down the bloating but it still got worse. Comet is not pooping very often and the last poop I saw yesterday after feeding the epsom salt crystal in 1 pea was very clear, thin, small string.

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Comet has a sore starting on its bulge. I have posted some pictures to help. Also can anyone let me know if Comet is male or female by looking at the picture links please:

http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x198/oo...t=Camera207.jpg

http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x198/oo...t=Camera206.jpg

http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x198/oo...t=Camera204.jpg

http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x198/oo...t=Camera203.jpg

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Toothless, I would like to try the sling today with Comet. What kind of weight can I use and how heavy should it be. I will wait for your reply before starting. Also where can this weight be purchased or can I use a pebble rock??? Looking forward to hearing from you before I proceed. Also how much do I feed Comet and what can it be fed because I have to hand feed it.

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I'm wondering about those dressmakers weights which are made from some type of ceramic. Obviously it can't be metal.

I'm wondering about the poop being clear - this is sometimes a sign that the eggs are being re-absorbed. Were there any bubbles?

Vis-a-vis the sore: I can't remember if you have salt in the water? Sometimes fungus can get going on a wound.

BUT.....I'm sure Toothy will advise in due course.

Let's hope it's eggs not a tumor.

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No I do not have salt in the water. The poop did not have any bubbles in it. Today Comet had a green poop as I am feeding it two peas daily.

Can you tell from the picture if Comet is a male or female???

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I have had soooo much difficulty getting this post to come up. I try and all I have gotten is a "Page Not Found" thingy.... Sorry....

There are a lot of reasons for floating issues - and even though I am going to sound like a broken record - very few of them occur by themselves. Almost every single problem is tied up together with at least one other problem - and together they can make a confusing, muti-layered conundrum to untangle in your hopes to help the fish.

Since you have done a lot of the suggestions I would just review a few and then put mine in....

1. Warm the water - 78-82F.

2. Feed Peas or greens

3. Tuck a crystal of Epsom salts into the pea - or if the fish will not eat, cook the peas in Epsom salt water, squish 'em through a sieve and suck up the water and pea smush with a plastic syringe. Squirt it into the fish's mouth, past the gills.

4. Change the water - keep the nitrates as LOW as possible.

5. Add epsom salts to the water (either epsom salts OR regular salts - but not both)

6. Walk your fish as much as you can. I typically try to walk a fish 3 times a day for about 1/2 hour each time. This means taking your fish in your hand, righting him and gently guide him around the tank - encouraging him to move his tail and "swim". You provide the stabilization - he provides the locomotion. Movement will help stimulate his bowels to keep moving.

7. Lower the level of your water - keep it only as deep as you have to to filter properly and to cover the fish.

8. Place a screen - I use the plastic grid for needlepoint - just under the surface of the water. This will keep your fish submerged and will help prevent the drying sores that occur on body parts that are out of the water.

9. Spread Vaseline or some other soothing water resistant ointment on the drysores.

10. Check for parasites - many opportunistic ones like to pile on an ailing fish - complicating matter dramatically!

Do not give up - you can win this fight sometimes if you are willing to fight hard and long for the fish.

To me, it looks like egg impaction. This is a toughie. The fish's eggs, when not released in a timely fashion can start to decompose and rot inside the fish. The rotting eggs then can ferment - releasing gas as they do. This gas can upset the fish's normal bouyancy - causing floating. Sometimes the eggs can block the fish's gut such that food, also, is retained. This decomposing food can add to the problem of fermentation and gas release. Since your fish is pooping, I am assuming, luckily, at this time you are not dealing with constipation .

Be VERY careful of hand stripping a fish - particularly if you have never done it before. You can seriously injure the fish if you are not careful. Too little pressure and the job does not get done - too much and you can rupture some internal organs.

Egg impaction/fementation and gas release goes hand in hand with many bacterial infections. The rotting eggs can be a breeding ground for nasty bacteria - causing still more layers of problems. I agree with Toothy when he says that medicated food should not be used indiscriminately. Too many drug resistant bacteria can be created by poor use and control of antibiotics. That said, once you have tried all the above 10 steps, I think that antibiotics are the best, next attack front. Sometimes, if you can kill the bacteria that is residing in the fish, the fish can clear the rest of the problem.

You said you had ProGold - does that mean you are familiar with Goldfish Connection? Rick can send you MetroMeds very quickly. This is an EXCELLENT medicated food - built on Progold. I have had it work wonders in fish that I was ready to give up on. I have a jaw dropping blue ryukin that had sores, fin rot and impacted eggs. She quickly went nose down and floaty with a bloated belly. I finally started her on a course of MEtroMeds. She has required them for long term. She has been on them since May 18 - and is still on them. The sores have cleared. The fin rot is gone. She is slowly becoming more and more stable and her bloat is reducing. She is not out of the woods, yet, but is definately responding. This type of problem often needs long term treatment. The standard 14 day round of meds will not do the job - and if you stop too early, failing to clear all the bacteria in the fish's system, the nasty bacteria that were slightly resistant are left to breed - making them much more difficult to killl the next time around. I would suggest that you set your teeth, buckle down to fight until you simply can no longer fight - either the fish gives up or you are forced to for one reason or another.

Sometimes fish that are "cured" of severe flipover problems - particularly ones that required long term antibiotics can become "sinkers". This can, also, be long term. Keep feeding the fish heavy on the greens and keep the water pristine. Many can regain their bouyancy within a few months.

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Thanks Daryl for your advice.

1.The water is between 76 and 78.

2.I am feeding two peas daily. I will add epsom salt crystal and feed.

3.I do 2 gal water changes every 3-4 days ( there is no gravel in this 10 gal qt tank.

4.How much epsom saly or salt should i add to the 10 gal tank?

5.I will try and walk the fish even though it hates being touched.

6. The water level is 2-4 inches below the top.

7.I will get a screen for the top of the water today.

8.I have been applying vaseline on its bulge.

9. I cannot see any parasites yet.

10. Thanks to everyone's help I will NOT give up on my fish.

Will order metromeds today.

Is Comet a female then (from the pics)???

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I tried walking Comet and it first fights and then stays limp in my hand. I dont think it likes to be held. Will still continue to try.

Goldfish connection seems to be down today. I will keep trying to get the medi-gold.

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Wow! :o

Carol is something else, isn't she? She is, by far, the most knowledgeable goldfish keeper I know.

The sling is an idea that can be an excellent addition to Carol's advice about "walking". However, it's probably best that you get things sorted out first. Try to work out a logical treatment plan that is conducive to your schedule and get Comet going on it. Let's work on the red spot on her side first....

Is this red spot the area that comes into contact with the air as she floats? If so, use plain triple antibiotic ointment on it daily.

Try to describe to us, in detail, her swimming habits/patterns. Can she swim to the bottom? Can she temporarily right herself? Does she try to swim much? How has her level of energy/lethargy changed in the past few months? Some in depth descriptions would really help illuminate the whole picture.....

For a weight you can use pretty much anything that has weight, is inert (river rock, glass, etc.) and isn't sharp or jagged. Some ways that you can secure the weight to the gauze are; super glue, sewing string, fine fishing line (mono filament), etc. If you use super glue, be sure not to leave any jagged edges or points that can come into contact with Comet. Fishing line ends can be singed with a lighter to round them off. Your going to want to make a bunch of different slings of varying designs so that you can tailor them to the specific mechanics involved with Comets buoyancy.

I am still looking for a good video of hand stripping goldfish or something similar. Regardless, I would only try it if options become scarce.

Keep us updated.... :unsure:

Paul

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Yes the red spot on Comet is in the area that floats above water. I will put antibiotic ointment daily on that starting today. She cannot swim down to the bottom or right herself. She still keeps trying to swim down with all her force but I think all the effort makes her tired and she lays floating upside down a lot. During the last few monthe she was first having trouble staying right side up. Then she developes the red streaking on her belly and fins. That is when I took her to the pet store FISH Specialist and did the qt to the 10 gal tank and Fungus Clear treatment. That cleared the streaks on her scales and fins but she started bloating and floating all the time. Then the round with medicated food but she did not get better. Her belly kept getting bigger and she has not been swimming since then.

I have placed a quilting plastic on top of the water so she can stay submerged.

Will try the sling today.

So is it confirmed from her pictures that Comet is a female???? We always refered to Comet as "he" till now!!!!

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Comet just hurt herself on the edge of the plastic sheet so I will go out an get a couple of crafting foam sheets with softer edges so she cant hurt herself. They are not see through but may be safer.

Also she is fighting me a lot when I try to put her sling on and has scraped her scales trying to get it off and swin away. At this point I do not want to worsen her problems. Any ideas anyone??????

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