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Cross Breeding Goldfish


Guest dani

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hello does anyone know if fantails and black moors or orandas and pearlscales will breed together or "cross breed" i was just curious didnt really plan on doing it.

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I am pretty sure that as long as they are of age and ready for breeding, and the conditions are right, that all goldfish will breed with each other. Not 100% on that, but pretty sure!

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Exactly. They will and can all breed together. And, done enough times (even 2-3 generations of random breeding) and a large percentage will revert back to single tailed "wild type".....

:)

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I have not "cross bred" any fish, but I have read a lot of genetics and talked to a number of breeders.... is there something specific you want to know? Perhaps I can give you an idea of the possibilities....

:)

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yes, actually..... i wanted to know what a mix of a fantail and oranda would look like.

yes, actually..... i wanted to know what a mix of a fantail and black moor would look like.

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In the three books and listing that I have, plus the one breeder that I talked to yesterday, the question of a wen is one that is yet to satisfactorally be answered. There is some question as to whether the wen is a dominant feature, or one that is dominant but has varying degrees of penetration - being expressed along the scale from basically no wen, all the way to fully wenned. I think I chose to believe in a degree of penetration and modifiers on wens - meaning the even between two nicely wenned parents, you will find wens in the offspring that are all along the scale in wen development.

That said, a cross that was done in the records between an oranda and a fantail resulted in all the fry in the first generation displaying some sort of wen - of varying degrees. These fry, if crossed back together then produced fry that were both "fantail" (no wen) and oranda (full wen)- something I tend to read as incomplete dominance on the wen.

So a fantailXOranda would yield wenned babies.

A fantail and a black moor cross..... well, the genetics that dictate the size and conformation of the eyes is far simpler than the wen. It mostly (not completely) follows the simple dominant/recessive dictates of Mendalian genetics. The enlarged eye - for telescopes, bubble eyes and celestials - is recessive. If your fantail is genetically "pure" for fantail, all the progeny will not carry any telescope or enlarged eyes. There is a bit of incomplete dominance/recessiveness involved in that some fish carrying a single recessive gene for telescope/globe eyes can display larger than normal eyes and sockets - or eyes that are slightly protruberant.

It follows then that an oranda and bubble eyed fish would also produce wenned fish with no protruding eyes.

These observations cannot begin to cover the wide variety of expressions you will find in a single spawning of fish, though. I have not evn begun to touch on the body shapes and sizes. As both double tailed parents, you should see the majority of babies having double tails (98% or so). A bubble eye can usually be faulted by a longer body type than ideal - and crossed with an oranda, you may get long, lean orandas - not a good choice. So much of body type is dictated by the water and food the fry get when growing that this is a hard factor to quantify.

YOu also have to realize that all predictions are based on an assumption that your parent fish are "pure blood" - that they are not carrying a myriad of recessive genetic traits from other outcrossing in their genetic histories....

Keep in mind that all genetics such as this is a matter of proportions and percentages. If you take 1000 fry, you will find the percentages of what is considered "normal". If you are only looking at 10 fry or less, you cannot possibly know what you are going to see.

So, in short, depending on the parent's genetic makeup, the environmental influences and the number of offspring, you should see, in general....

Fantail X Oranda = wenned babies with bodies more similar to a Fantail and less the deep Oranda. Double tails.

Fantail X BlackMoor = Fantail type babies - perhaps some will have larger eyes than their siblings. Double tails. Bodies more like a Fantail than the deeper bodied Moor. Depending on the color of the Fantail, you will most likely see babies that carry some black tips on their bodies which quickly go to orange if the FAntail is red metallic. It is almost a given that you will see no black babies.

Oranda X Bubble eye = wenned babies with bodies more similar to a Bubbleeye and less the deep Oranda. There may be some expression of larger eyes or eye sockets, perhaps. Bodies will typically be quite long and lean - unless you have a very very nice Bubble eye. Presence of a dorsal fin is dominant (mostly) and your babie should have almost 100% dorsal fins. These fins may or may not be impacted - falling along the scale of misplaced fins (too far back etc), poorly sized fins (too small) etc.

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I had cross breeding happen..wasny a plan of mines, but it happened....lol....fantails, commets and my oranda....it happened when I was setting up my oranda tank and had to move the fish into the tank together....what a mess.....lol

most came out as comets, but they are kinda plump in the bellies....lol....and the fantails, I'm hoping one will be an oranda...or at least have a wen...lol

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I know im a bit late on the uptake on this one... but photos of the fry from a fantail/oranda blend are on the diary of goldies in the breeding sections. :)

Also, it might be interesting to note that i Crossed the fantail orandas to get a new cross which has a smaller wen than their parents but a sharper spine line similar to the ryukins, and these have VERY rounded bodies, with a lengthy tail. :)

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  • 13 years later...
  • Regular Member

Hi Daryl , i got this awesome fish i saw a breeder had and i was wondering if you can email me at glenn_pty_ltd@ymail.com name Bernard Limo and we get to chat about genetics and the possibility of type of cross breeds to create this beautiful creature which i can show you a foto of , i hope when you reply me thks

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Regular Member

I want to cross vreed my gold fishwas wondering how to gwt tri colour oranda also how to get panda goldfish 

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