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Omg My Fish Hatched!


jen626

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Latest update (I am sure this is boring everyone to death):

The fry are now swimming around quite a bit and I fed them today, a bit of frozen bbs. I am afraid no matter how small an amount I give though it is too much. I just hope the water quality will be ok for a few more days until they are strong enough for a change. But it is really cool to see them dart around and eat!

I removed the bowl and filter intake screen that had been in the tank, which was where the eggs were stuck to initially. There were three dead fry in the bottom of the bowl, one very deformed looking. Not too bad I guess for only having 30 or so? I actually can try and count them now that the bowl is out of there, although unfortunately they are able to hide under the edge of the sponge filter a little.

Thanks for listening!

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:) How exciting! Good luck with them. And "No", its not boring, I for one really enjoy the fry threads. I get to see the babies from fry to nice plump fish, without all the work! :rofl
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And "No", its not boring, I for one really enjoy the fry threads. I get to see the babies from fry to nice plump fish, without all the work! :rofl

Aw, thanks for making me feel better!

Today more of them are swimming around and being very active. I have fed them a bit, but I am just not sure how much they need. It's Hakari frozen baby brine shrimp. I have just been taking a tiny corner off of a cube, mixing it with tank water and putting it in. I definitely saw some of them eating it yesterday, but will they eat it once it is on the floor of the tank? It seems like there are bits still onthe tank bottom, but I am not sure. I just don't want to dirty the tank more than necessary, but I also do not want them to starve to death! It seems I have read to feed them at least 3 times a day, but I am not positive that they are all eating yet. It looks like some of them have white in their bellies...is that the bbs or just part of their anatomy?

A million questions....thanks everyone!

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For 30 fry , you may need about 1/4 of a cube once a day - divided into feedings. After about 3-4 days, that amount will double.

The fry will eat it off the bottom. They are very good at finding food.

When they have bellies full of shrimp their bellies will bulge. Live brine shrimp makes their tummies look almost flourecent orange - frozen does not quite have the same color effect...... I am not sure but the "whiteness" may be because the belly is stretched over food....

The little waste on the bottom may be waste from the fish. When they are really really tiny, they make little dots of poo - it looks like dust almost on the bottom. There is more waste when not feeding live - but very little.....

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Thanks again d, it may be poo on the bottom of the tank. I wanted to do bbs live but we are moving next Thursday and I couldn't find the stuff I needed right away (although I have now) to get it going fast enough. Since I don't have that many I think i will be ok with the frozen, although I know the live is better.

So I want to change 25% of the water 7 days after they hatched, is that correct? I have great instructions to try and keep the fry safe. I am concerned about my ph problem, although maybe it will be ok for now since they are still little. I have 0 kh water so my ph crashes in my 55 gallon if I don't have crushed coral in the filters. But my 20 gallon and my betta tank were always ok, so hopefully the fry tank will be alright for awhile. One good thing about moving is that *maybe* there will be some buffer in my new tap water!

Edited by jen626
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Jen the white you are seeing is the belly developing. I kept a fry diary and observed it too. It is the first stage of the belly and grows when its fed and arrives about day 2. The next stage you'll see a second silver/white bubble beside it inside the body. Then they merge.

The food they will go on eating very slowly for about 2 hours -it takes ages for them to find and eat the food and there is always the danger that fry will starve very quickly without regular feeding so give them a few hours before cleaning up. You should vacuum up the leftovers with the blaster. If you always put the food in the same place after a while they will eventually learn to go to that place when they are hungry and get use to feeding there.

About the pH. I also have 0 kH and cannot keep fish without a huge amount of crushed coral. I was very worried about it with my fry (my fy are now 5 weeks old )..and I added a bag of coral in a hose in to the fry tank and also some inside my filter - I wrapped it all in hose. Don't put the coral loose as cleaning will be imposs. but if you can fit some coral in somewhere -do- they need a stable pH!

I started water changes on day 7 too. I did 15/20% changes daily (after tank bottom vacuuming with the blaster) till week 2 and then increased when the poop started to get larger and more.

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That is sooooo cool, Imogen!!!! I did not know that about their bellies!!!! I cannot see that well, so I have only observed the fry under the microscope up and until they hatch. Then I put them back in the tank and watch with my weak eyes!!!!

So - is the bubble that merges - is that the air bladder that has filled and they grow together?

(I do not mean to hijack your post - but I LOVE info - I am an info junkie!)

I do not change any specific amount of water in the fry tanks - I let the tests tell me what I need to do. I test every day for the little guys. Sometimes the fry grow sooooo fast that they outshoot the sponge filter's ability to clean the water - and you hae to change a fair amount of water and add Prime to keep it clean. Sometimes, on live food feeding days, there is little waste and I only have to clean out the poos.

:D

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It is really hard to see those teeny tummies for sure! I have a 12X zoom camera and a 4x magnifying glass that came in handy :D I don't know why they turn white first but that tiny air sac soon develops into 2 parts and then they join and after that you can clearly see the pink babybrine in what is now their stomachs.

About this time you can also see the eye dot change to 2 tone-the silver circle around the black dot and the length of the mouth at the back looks like a hinge on either side.

In the first few days after free swimming, I noticed in the morning all the fry looked so small again- after the last night feed- half the size and actually set my alarm for 5 am to get them fed before they wasted away!

One tip is to leave the curtain open so the fry can see at night from the moonlight. I was worried they would eat each other or get squished in strange places in the night. I think that helped this time around as I haven't lost so many.

It is totally fascinating watch them grow. Can't wait to watch Jen's little 'uns develop :D

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Wow, thanks Imogen for all the info! I don't have great vision but it definitely looked like their bellies were white! Glad to know that is normal. I too am worried about them starving to death so i am trying to feed 3-4 times a day. It is so cool to see them hunt for food and then try and eat it, even the bbs are a little big sometimes. I wish i was hatching live ones but in the midst of trying to move and do 100 other things it just wasn't in the cards.

After a week should I try some Hikari first bites too?

I will add some coral to their tank and see if that helps the kh as well, so far the ph is stable but you never know.

So far I have only found 4 dead fry, and two were noticably deformed. I think I have 35-40 live ones right now but they are hard to count because they never hold still!

Thanks again for all of the wonderful advice! Maybe I can borrow a digital camera again and take some halfway decent pics that are NOT with a cell phone.

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I believe the hikari first bites are actually smaller than the bbs. With my white cloud minnow fry I had to feed the first bites for a little over a week before the fry were big enough to get frozen bbs into their mouths. But the powdered food will mess up your water params more than the bbs will.

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SAn Francisco Baby Brine Shrimp strain are the smallest available - and can be eaten by the fry as soon as they are eating. First Bites are a bit bigger - and do not have quite the same amount of protien. Live food (or the frozen live - which is considered VERY close in nutrition if not the same as the live) produces less waste and is more nutricious for the first 7-10 days of feeding for fry. After that, depending on breed/finnage, you may wish to feed more carbohydrates or more protien - depending on the fry.

First Bites are a combination of carbohydrates (green) and protien (brown) pellets. They are very good for fry - but are not the smallest.

Different strains of baby brine shrimp are larger than the San Fran strains....

Brine shrimp are larger - and a fry needs to be at least 10 days old to eat one. Some of my fry could not handle them until 3 weeks - others eat them easily at 10 days feeding age.

I think you can safely try some First Bites at about 7 days of feeding age - or even younger if your fry are doing well. Try it and see if they eat them successfully..... it is good food. You can also pound out the pellets of your regular goldfish food - and, for the first week or so, sift it through a fine sieve. This powder makes a good fry food. As they grow, you sieve it less. Flakes can be crushed and fed. I wet mine in a bowl of tank water so that they sink immediately - I would not feed any floating food.

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I actually use the caffee grinder to make a fine "dust" out of my regular food for the fry - works very well. My hubby gave me that idea, he does that with his koi fry, and the food gets very even and small. I used to smash the food with a hammer ( :thud ), but grinder is way better.

We read an interesting tactic from some japanese koi breeder regarding a fry's first meal. They all recommend egg yolk - it seems to expand their "stomachs" better than other fry food. After that, they used the live hatched baby brine, and after 2 weeks they started grinded koi food dust. I use whatever is in the house at the moment, but I found the theory about the egg yolk being the best for a first meal very interesting.

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Thanks for all of the great feeding advice! Interesting about the egg yolk thing.

Tomorrow is day 7 since they hatched so I think I am going to attempt a water change and vacuum the bottom (carefully with a turkey baster and/or small siphon with bucket at almost same level). I may try the Hikari First Bites a few hours before that so if they are not able to eat it I will get all the uneaten stuff out.

Things would be easier if we were not about to move. We may have to stay with my parents for a few days in between places, whih is fine for everything except moving all the fish. I jokingly told my mom, "You don't mind if all 50 of us come to stay with you do you?" Meaning myself, Craig, my daughter, our two cats, my 6 adult gf, and about 40 gf fry. She laughed and tells everyone that now. We thought about going on an overnight camping trip this weekend, but since the fry cannot go 24 hours without foood...well, we're staying home!

Hope you are all having a nice Memorial Day weekend (well, for the Americans), and everyone outside fo US has a nice regular weekend.

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I'm so sorry to hear about Chauncey Huffcat. :cry1 That is an awesome name.

I am excited however to hear about (and see) your fry!!! Congrats and good luck to you!

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Thanks Angel for your condolences and congrats!

OK, more questions, as usual!

1. Why don't my fry have the fat bellies yet? I have seen pics of Daryl's and Trinket's and at 10 days they have nice round bellies...mine are 7 days but no bellies to speak of. Am I not feeding them enough? Or is it partly because I think Daryl and Trinket's fish are fancies and mine are single tails?

2. What kind of coloration can I expect? The parents are the fish in my signature. two females are white, one a common and one a comet, and two males are orange/red, one a common and one a comet. i don't know which one(s) laid eggs/fertilized. When a white and orange/red fish cross do you get a mix or just one or the other? Just curious!

3. Moving with the fry is coming up. With a less than half full ten gallon I was thinking it *might* be safer to move them in the tank than take them all out. I generally would not move a tank with water in it, but in this case I am thinking it may be best, and it is a small tank with little water. We are only moving 10 minutes away.

OK, enough questions for now! Otherwise the fry seem to be doing well, I only lost 3 out of the 40 or so and that was like 4 days ago. They swim around and look for food mainly. I tried to feed them Hikari First Bites and some of htem seemed able to eat it and for some it was too big. So I will maybe feed a small amount of that once a day with the bbs, then just bbs 3 other times.

Here is another blurry, horrible picture. The water is not that cloudy, it is the stuff behind the tank making it look that way.

0526072206.jpg

Edited by jen626
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OK, more questions, as usual! AAAARGH my whole post was erased...I was saying no problem we love questions here!

1. Why don't my fry have the fat bellies yet? I have seen pics of Daryl's and Trinket's and at 10 days they have nice round bellies...mine are 7 days but no bellies to speak of. Am I not feeding them enough? Or is it partly because I think Daryl and Trinket's fish are fancies and mine are single tails?

I think it takes time. The tummies have to get to a certain size before you can clearly see the stretching. Maybe another few days or more. They are growing before they can stretch remember. You may have apoint with the streamline shape of your fish that it may not be noticeable yet. It will come.

2. What kind of coloration can I expect? The parents are the fish in my signature. two females are white, one a common and one a comet, and two males are orange/red, one a common and one a comet. i don't know which one(s) laid eggs/fertilized. When a white and orange/red fish cross do you get a mix or just one or the other? Just curious!

You will be endlessly surprised! Like the parents, grandparents all sorts will apppear! The more fish survive the more variations are possible of course.You will have a few double tails maybe and calicos and mixes of the parent fish but the majority will be the dominant gene, the orange color probably and the single tail and body shape of the parents.

3. Moving with the fry is coming up. With a less than half full ten gallon I was thinking it *might* be safer to move them in the tank than take them all out. I generally would not move a tank with water in it, but in this case I am thinking it may be best, and it is a small tank with little water. We are only moving 10 minutes away.

I didn't know wether to say something about this. I am always so scared to move fry because of my ghastly first time round experience. Not only did I lose some moving them at 2 weeks but also I believe I weakened them. Not only the swirling water of the move but also the stress factor greatly underreported I think for fish helath. If you imagine how tiny those hearts are- literallly pinpricks...so easy to scare and stress :(

I think personally if there was any way at all you could move the whole tank intact I would do it. Daryl and others may suggest otherwise but moving tiny fry is a very stressful thing for you and them...

The pics are great. The fry look well and active. Good job :D

Edited by Trinket
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I think you're doing much better than you think! :) I think you have a great point about the body type of your fry. They are definitely much sleeker than orandas. See you're going to be a pro in no time. :)

Edited by Angel
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Thanks Trinket, sorry you lost your post...I HATE it when that happens! And today i actually can see their little bellies starting to stretch, and more of them are able to eat the First Bites now. I upped the feeding amount a little too.

Thanks for your kind words and well wishes Angel!

Oh, and this morning the fish spawned again! However, these ones are staying in the tank, and later today I will do a large water change. 35-40 fry is plenty for now!

Edited by jen626
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:) You are doing a really good job, I think you just have "New Fry" jitters! But you are doing great! I love the fry threads! I learn so much from you guys doing it!
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Aw, thank you Lola!

They are still doing well today although I injured one doing the water change last night. I was SO careful but I slipped and a big "plop" of water fell :-( So one little fry has gone off to the big fish pond in the sky. :cry1 But I still have 35-40 of them. Other than that the water change seemed to go fine. I took a pitcher and filled it with temp matched water, added some Prime and let it sit a bit, then swapped it out with a cup, plus used the turkey baster to get crud off the bottom.

Some of them still seem to be too small to eat the Hikari First Bites, so I am feeding bbs 3-4 times a day (so they get 3/4 of a Hikari bbs frozen cube total each day) and then once a day a toothpick full of First Bites. Do you think that is enough? Or maybe too much?

Also, their poo is supposed to be white right? Does it look kind of fluffy? A lot of the debris on the tank bottom is white, fluffy kind of stuff (not like fungus though) and I am not sure if it is poo, leftover bbs or a mixture of both?

I forget if I said already, but the parents spawned again yesterday morning. I let them eat all the eggs this time though, especially since we are moving. One question about that too though...both times they spawned there were some small, round black things on the bottom of the tank, same size as the eggs but black and they look to be pretty solid. Anyone know what they might be? Also, when the fish spewed their eggs it seems like pieces of eggs come out too, there are some white pieces of stuff on the bottom along with the eggs. Just curious if this was normal!

As usual, thanks for all the help! The fry would not be here without you. :heart

Edited by jen626
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Jen I have to laugh. You get an A+ for observation skills :rofl !!!! I hope someone will know about the black round things (you don't have any snails or critters in there do you?)I'm racking my brains but can't get that one. As for the half eggs -they were once whole eggs and they have been pecked by the fish but because the bottom is sticky they cant eat all of the egg. I had plenty of those half eaten eggs too.

The poo is not fluffy. It might be mixed with bb leftovers (and yes those bbs can get a little fluffy and paler in the water) and general debris. Do you have the tank covered? I have a large thick, stiff, plastic bag that I throw over to keep dust out. The first poo is very hard to see, just white or brown dots. Then gradually it turns into those tiny, thin brown moon crest shaped poos and then finally into miniature versions of the big long trailers we know so well :)

I also found that even when the water params were fine I still needed to do tank bottom wiping (with a tiny rolled up piece of stocking- in slow motion,very, very gently) to get rid of the cloudy debris on the bottom. The problem with fry tanks IMO is sponge filtration is not really powerful enough to get all the dust up. What you are seeing I think is just normal dust and debris that you don't get in a well powered/filtered adult fish tank.

Don't worry too much. Small w/cs daily will help a lot with it. And after another few weeks you can add another filter maybe. I added a second filter at around 3 and a half weeks/4 weeks when the fry get noticeably stronger and less likely to be sucked in by the current.

Sorry about the fry you lost but you are doing very well not to have lost even more with so many in there. Amazing. Great job :)

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Yes Anette, I MUST get my ex-husband to lend me his digital camera again! Taking pics with my cell phone just does not cut it.

I lost two more, one was doing that weird spirally swimming thing and looked bent, and the other was gasping at the bottom. :cry1 But there are still 30+ left I think, although they do not hold still for counting!

I am turkey bastering the crud out of the bottom twice daily and changing out a little water in the process as well. If the ammonia gets to .25 I do a 25% change...hope that is ok? I am using Prime also so that should help a bit too.

It was REALLY hot here today, almost 90 degrees, which is very rare for this time of year, so I was concerned about their temperature, but they seemed fine. I actually felt worse for my telescopes since they are neareer to the window and have a closed tank lid (for my cats), but I made sure they were ok and increased their aeration.

I have a glass lid on the fry tank but it does not cover 100%. My cats are too fat to jump on the counter anymore, so I just have to be careful about not holding anything over the tank that could spill and Craig has been threatened with death if uses spray cleaners in the kitchen. :yeah:

I am thinking about adding a filter in a few weeks...but will probably have to buy one :-( I could pull a cycled, algae filled Whisper in-tank 90 gph off my 20 gallon (leaving the two fish with 200 gph-still okish), and could pull a stocking over the end to make it safer. I also have an Emperor 280 that sort of halfway works that I could try. Any thoughts? Or an inexpensive one I could buy maybe? I only have a 10 gallon available at the moment, so if they grow a lot I will either have to give them away/cull or talk Craig into another tank. He loves the baby fish but is not super thrilled about a 3rd tank. Adding a fourth or fifth would be a struggle! :krazy: However, we will se how many of them make it through the move...

Thanks Trinket for the info on the partly eaten eggs, lol, not sure why I didn't think of that! I think you are right about the fluffy stuff just being dust and debris...where I live it gets really dusty. My other two tanks are overfiltered, so I never see that in them. I may try and cover it a little better. I think I know what their poo is now, I see little brown things in the corners of the tank now. Yay, I can recognize poo!!!! I want my breeding medal darn it! :D

You can kinda see a few here:

0530072209.jpg

Edited by jen626
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YAY! I can see eyes! (The one nearest :) )

Congrats on seeing the poos- that is a milestone!

Sorry you lost a few. It's inevitable though :( I know it seems like a lot of fry but there seems to be a die off rate at certain points. We've all found that. I think it's 3 weeks and about a month.. Maybe the birth immunity wears off or they are just weak fry or something...you shouldn't worry about losing the weak ones - it happens. If you read other fry threads it seems the survival rate is often less than half that hatch. The strongest will survive.

You can use a low powered filter covered in hose. I'm doing that. I use two now the fry are bigger and messier and a few small bags of coral and media covered in hose that I rinse off every few days.

Sounds like you are doing fine :thumb: . Good luck with moving.

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