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Jack of Hearts

Ryukin Sitting At The Bottom Of The Tank

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aww, i feel so bad for jack :( i really wish it were easier to fix a fish's ailments!

Yeah tell me about it. I know you've been through heck of a roller coaster battle with your fishes too.

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Poor Jack! I sure wish he would get better! :( Could it be a tumor? I sure hope not. Does he still eat and everything?

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Poor Jack! I sure wish he would get better! :( Could it be a tumor? I sure hope not. Does he still eat and everything?

I have no idea what it is. I have never seen anything like it before and it isn't pretty.

He catches and eats what I aim down to his mouth. He is still able to get some food off the bottom although it's a struggle because he really lost most of his body control. On occasion he swims up several inches then sinks to the bottom. He is using his muscles to get up those several inches, not his swim bladder. That's why once he uses up all his strength to swim up several inches, he just sinks back to the bottom. :(

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Goodness Jack, is that donut still getting bigger? Is it very red? Is Jack's vent in the middle of this?

I wonder if this isn't an infection. That area can be a minefield of bacteria under normal circumstances and then with the bottom sitting it would be like the fish is a stagnant target.

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Goodness Jack, is that donut still getting bigger? Is it very red? Is Jack's vent in the middle of this?

I wonder if this isn't an infection. That area can be a minefield of bacteria under normal circumstances and then with the bottom sitting it would be like the fish is a stagnant target.

The donut is not red. It's pretty much the color of his body(white). It may be a little more pinkish than his natural color but not red.

When you say vent, do you mean the anal opening? If so that is on the outer rear diameter of the donut, not in the middle of it.

If this is an infection, wouldn't he have been dead by now? I think he's started to bottom sit about 9 month ago and I first noticed the donut about 5 month ago or so. He was at his worst when I first posted back in May. He was so weak that I literally had to drop the food straight into his mouth. With all the various treatments(I don't even know which one worked and which one didn't) including Medigold, Antibac bath, & Prazipro, he gained some strength where he is able to skim around the bottom of the tank. Since that improvement, he was not gotten any better or worse; other than the donut which has just gotten bigger and bigger. :(

Edited by Jack of Hearts

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I know I remember all the difficulties poor Jack had :(

I got the description wrong ,imagining the donut surrounding his poop place.

So this might be an internal swelling if its skin color? Does it look squishy or hard? Is the skin over it normal looking scales?

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I know I remember all the difficulties poor Jack had :(

I got the description wrong ,imagining the donut surrounding his poop place.

So this might be an internal swelling if its skin color? Does it look squishy or hard? Is the skin over it normal looking scales?

Yes it looks internal. It doesn't look squishy but firm. Yes the skin over it looks normal. The thing with Jack is that you can't really even see his scales. His scales are so flush and smooth it looks more like a skin. What do you call fishes like that? Matte scales or something like that?

I took a photo with my cell phone camera. It's pretty poor quality but you can still see the big donut. I'm going to email it to Lolafish so she can post it for me here so you can get a better idea of what it looks like.

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Okay. Sounds like it could be an isolated colony of bacteria in the colon-something like that.

Will wait on pic.

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Good idea Lola. I can only take a wild guess as I have never seen that before. But my guess is it is not infected, and that it is a growth as result of bottom sitting for so long :(

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Poor Jack! :(

I wish you both luck with a diagnosis. It must be hard for him to get comfortable.

I think Lola has a great idea there. It wouldn't hurt to try! :exactly

:goodluck

Debbie

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What about emailing a fish doctor that photo and see if you can get some answers? That is what I'd do. Here's a start:

http://jscms.jrn.columbia.edu/cns/2006-12-...olson-fishdocs/

Lola that email address on the bottom, does that belong to a particular vet or is it the general mailbox?

Do you think they will even look at it? What should I say?

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Good idea Lola. I can only take a wild guess as I have never seen that before. But my guess is it is not infected, and that it is a growth as result of bottom sitting for so long :(

I don't think it's infected either as he would be in much worse shape if it was.

Is it displaced organ from the flattened stomach? Why do you think it keeps getting bigger? It's huge isn't it? Is it what you expected Imogen?

:unsure:

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Poor Jack! :(

It must be hard for him to get comfortable.

I have removed 98% of the gravel. At first, Jack was having great difficulties staying upright without the lateral support of the gravel. When I came home from work today, he seemed to have adjusted and was sliding around on the smooth surface.

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poor little fella :( it makes me want to give him a soft fluffy pillow to take the pressure off!! too bad that's not possible. I truly hope that you are able to find some info in order to help him, I know it must be terrible to have to see him like that :hug

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Jack has lost his ability to stay upright on the bottom. He is always on his side now. The sad part is that he is constantly struggling to try to upright himself. In the rare occasion he succeeds, he slips on the tank bottom and falls on his side again. Then the struggle starts all over again. It is very heartbreaking to watch. :cry1

I wonder if I made a mistake by removing the gravel......

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Poor Jack, and poor you JoH. :cry1

It's so heart wrenching when your fish babies are struggling, and you don't know what to do to help them.

I really couldn't say if the gravel should be in or not. It might be hard on that growth if the gravel has edges to it.

Too bad you can't give him a pile of soft fluffy cotton balls or something. :k055: I hope someone can figure out what that is, and how to get rid of it.

Debbie

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I wonder if I made a mistake by removing the gravel......

I don't think so. Think of all those nasty organisms that have been living in there. Now at least you KNOW your tank is clean.

Did you see that picture of the fish with the cork keeping it upright on that page I sent you too? Interesting.

I think the email at the bottom was just the author of the article. I'd look up the resources that were mentioned and find their phone numbers and/or email addys.

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I really couldn't say if the gravel should be in or not. It might be hard on that growth if the gravel has edges to it.

Too bad you can't give him a pile of soft fluffy cotton balls or something.

Why not some smooth, black river rocks? :)

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I wonder if I made a mistake by removing the gravel......

I don't think so. Think of all those nasty organisms that have been living in there. Now at least you KNOW your tank is clean.

You're probably right.

And if his condition got worse, he would really scrape up his sides struggling on top of he gravel.

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Had a little browse of my fish immunolgy text today and in a section devoted to ideopathic viruses found this:"Pacific cod ulcerative epidermal hyperplasia. 1-50mm ulcers of raised circular ring shaped lesions. I thought of Jack.

However since viral things typically come and go and this is not coming and going I think something like a hernia or polyps is more likely. Do you think it could be a hernia? That would mean part of the colon or abdominal wall had been weakened (pressure from sitting?) and adipose tissue emerges through a crack to create a hard lump or polyps. In Jack's case the lump could have been flattened because of his sitting. What do you think?

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Had a little browse of my fish immunolgy text today and in a section devoted to ideopathic viruses found this:"Pacific cod ulcerative epidermal hyperplasia. 1-50mm ulcers of raised circular ring shaped lesions. I thought of Jack.

However since viral things typically come and go and this is not coming and going I think something like a hernia or polyps is more likely. Do you think it could be a hernia? That would mean part of the colon or abdominal wall had been weakened (pressure from sitting?) and adipose tissue emerges through a crack to create a hard lump or polyps. In Jack's case the lump could have been flattened because of his sitting. What do you think?

Thank you for thinking of Jack. Imogen you are so sweet. :)

Jack's belly was flattened due to the proloned sitting and it could be that his colons was pushed out and herniated?

Jack had been on his side and struggling to get back upright for the last few days. It has been hard to watch him struggle so much. I just got home from the gym to find Jack sitting perfectly upright! He must have taught himself to compensate for his totally messed up swim bladder. It could be my imagination but he looks really happy. Jack is so determined and an incredible fighter. I love Sash but I know if this was Sash, he would have given up long time ago. I remember when Sash got dropsy. He literally looked like he gave up any will to live and I really thought I was going to lose him. Jack is different. He is determined to be normal again.

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Then he will :)

This is very happy news. I can imagine how pleased you felt getting home from the gym to see that :exactly A nice coming home surprise for sure.

I agree he is a fighter- bigtime :flex: . He was probably- the last few lopsided days -adjusting to the no gravel new carpet in his living room and finding an alternative way to support himself. Hey if that means a little more airsac control that is progress :bingo:

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