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Guest pfargo

Help Oranda

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Guest pfargo

Hi! I'm a newbie to keeping fish. I set up my 29 gallon tank two weeks ago added TopFin water conditioner and API Stress Coat as recommended on bottles. Used 1/2 recommended TopFin Conditioning Salt. Tank is currently cycling. I put in two Oranda's on Monday (bodies 3 1/2 inches and 2 1/2 inches. Bouth them from vvvv. I had been keeping my eye on them in the store for a couple of weeks and the tanks they were in looked healthy as did the fish.

I currently get a 1ppm reading on Ammonia, 1ppm Nitrite, and 20ppn Nitrate. I did a 15% water change yesterday after getting a 1ppm ammonia reading. The tank is in my office so I am only with the fish 8am-5pm. I have a timer for my light. I do not have a heater. My larger Orange/white oranda is getting a frayed tail today. She has not been as energetic. She did eat this morning. I have been feeding Omega One flakes and pellets - alternating meals.

Please tell me what the Frayed fin and lack of energy might be from and what I should do before she gets any worse.

Thanks!

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From reading your post, I think you are familiar with "cycling" a tank. What I would suggest, is a larger water change. I would do about 40% to counteract the ammonia and nitrite level. Check your levels tomorrow, and do another large water change, if necessary. Keep this up until you are reading 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and a low nitrate reading.

Keep a very close eye on ammonia and nitrite levels until your tank is cycled. Do you know the ph of your water? Ammonia is more toxic at higher ph levels.

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Welcome to the hobby!

It sounds like your fish could be experiencing something due to the water quality; while I am not one of the classic pros here, hopefully I can offer some help. Prior to your 15% water change, had you done any water changes on this tank? Also, what type of filter / media are you using?

It sounds like a larger water change would be a large benefit for your fish right now. Keeping on top of the water quality during the initial startup cycle is imperative.

If you haven't yet, or if you feel you are unfamiliar with it, I would reccomend reading up on the regular water cycle, avaliable in the forums here.

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Guest pfargo

Thanks for the quick reply. PH is 6.5. I have the test strips an should probably get the liquid kit for more accurate readings. I was under the impression that to cycle the tank I needed a small ammonia level for the nitrites to grow. I should keep it at 0 all the time? My poor Oranda is just hanging out in the corner nose down. Her name is Ella. Her tank mate is Perry and he is consoling her. Should I try any medications today or just the large water change?

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Guest pfargo

Stupidfly, thanks for responding. I have a Penguine 200 Biowheel Filter. I had not done any water changes prior to yesterday. I just put the fish in on Monday and yesterday was the first Ammonia reading I had gotten. I did a lot of reading on tank cycling and thought I was doing everything right. There are so many different "words of wisdom" out there and none of them completely agreed with each other. I am going to try a large water change.

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I would do the large water change asap. I have cycled tanks in the normal time frame doing up to 70% water changes per day. In my mind, once you have fish in the tank, the most important thing is keeping them healthy. The tank will cycle even with the large water changes.

You could also use a water conditioner such as Prime or Amquel+ to help with ammonia and nitrite. When you do ammonia tests when using these products, take the reading right away, or you may get false positives.

If your fish is suffering, I would do a big water change, even up to 70%.

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I should also have said to not use any medications. This will only make things worse.

Please keep me posted. BTW, goldfish do really well with large water changes.

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Guest pfargo

I added Topfin Ammonia Remover about 20 minutes ago. Hopefully that will help. I cannot do the water change for another three hours (after work). I hope she gets better. I am already attached!

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Guest pfargo

Ellen has a long string of pooh following her. The tip of it iw white and the rest is brownish. Is this normal?

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Yes, do not worry about the poop. Often when you first purchase fish, they haven't eaten really well and they are stressed and they will have stringy, white poop.

I would deal with the water change as soon as you can and try not to use too many chemicals :) I am going to check out Topfin Ammonia Remover on the web to see what it is. I am not familiar with it.

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Guest pfargo

What all should I be putting in the tap water at water changes? I have been adding the conditioner to rid of chlorine, aquarium salt 1/2 of recommended dose to start then increasing with water changes. I just added the ammonia remover today since she was having issues and I can't change the water until after work.

I do not have an aerator in my tank. I have heard mixed reviews on this. I am open to opinions of users of this website.

Also, I do not have a thermometer. Is it OK to feel the tank water and try to get the tap water as close to the tank water as possible doing a large water change?

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Guest pfargo

BTW, ellen has been more active this afternoon. I am not sure if it is from the ammonia remover or her pooping. Maybe she was constipated. Maybe I shouldn't feed for a day or two? The frayed tail is still an issue of course. I am happy she is swimming around again though!

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Guest f1shface

fish need oxygen. i definately would use an aerator. I don't use salt with my goldfish. only to cure illness. i add amquest when adding new water to dechlorinate. there should not be a variance in water temperature so you need to make sure the water you are adding is the same as what they are acclimated to. i also use melafix for the shredding fin; it is calming to them as well. JMHO :) hope they do well.

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As long as the filter is strong enough to put a good current across the top of the tank, then extra aeration isn't necessary. This is especially true when water temperature is cool, and the tank isn't planted. Also, a 30 gallon tank with two fish is not heavily populated.

For your next feeding, you could try feeding her a couple of squished peas. Peas act as a laxative for fish. Use frozen peas, and cook them lightly in a bit of water in the microwave. Then pop them from the shells and squish a bit between your fingers and feed. It is a good practice to feed veggies to your goldfish regularly. A couple of times a week, at least.

I find that I can judge my water just by using my hand and matching it that way. It seems to work pretty well for me. If you don't feel confident doing that, you can purchase a floating type thermometer for a couple of dollars.

I don't use aquarium salt on a regular basis in my tanks, but when dealing with frayed fins, aquarium salt is a good choice. A dosage of 1 teaspoon per gallon would be appropriate.

I would suggest just using a good water conditioner to remove chlorine and chloramine. I currently use Prime and I am very happy with it. The aquarium salt is a good idea to help with the frayed fins, but after the fins have healed, you can gradually remove it. Also, aquarium salt will help your fish cope with rising nitrites levels, when you tank goes into that cycling phase.

I am glad that she is a bit more active. Please keep me posted and feel free to ask as many questions as necessary.

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Guest pfargo

Thank you Touchofsky! I did a 70% water change last night before I left work and scrubbed the sides of the tank. This morning she is active, but has two red streaks in her tail. Any suggestions for this?

My filter puts a current from back to front (filter hangs on back of tank). It does not go all the way across the length of the tank. Is this enough aeration?

I have some frozen peas. I will feed that to her today. The only problem is I have another fish in the tank who swims a bit faster than she does. I think he is an Oranda as he has all the same fins, but the wen on his head is not developed. He is calico. It looks like he maybe has a little wen, but I can't tell. His body is about 2 1/2 inches so I think he he would have his wen by now.

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The red streaks are indicative of a water quality problem. Some fish are much more prone to showing signs of poor water than others. It is always strange how in a tank of fish, some will be fine, whereas one will be in distress.

What you are doing now, i.e. the large water changes, will combat the red streaks in the fins. I would keep testing the water and if it gets up to 1 ppm, then do a large water change. I know this seems like a lot of work, but in the end, you will have a cycled tank and a healthy goldfish.

You may indeed have two orandas. Some orandas have very little wen, and others have a lot.

When you put the peas in, you can try and drop some in one part of the tank and see if the faster fish can get them. Then try and direct a couple near the slower fish. Once the faster one is munching on a pea, then you can probably get one or two near enough to the slower fish :)

BTW, what amount of salt do you have in the water now?

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I also thought I should mention, that when doing water changes, you should vacuum the gravel in the tank about once per week. Clean the glass on the front of the tank, and the sides if necessary, but leave the back glass intact. Beneficial bacteria grows on the glass.

Also, what is the filter you are using on the tank?

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Guest pfargo

I added 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons with my 20 gallon water change yesterday (29 gl tank). This is what the directions on the container advised. Is this right?

So still no medications such as Macaryn Two?

The filters that go with my Penguine Bio-wheel filter have carbon. Is this OK?

The fin rot sure does move quickly. There is a chunk about the size of my ring-fingernail gone already. She has a large flowing beautiful tail. Will this grow back?

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Guest pfargo

Now both Ellen and Perry have the red stripes in their fins. Perry's tails isn't fraying yet but is starting to become more clear/opaque. Neither one is as active as they should be. They just kind of flost around the middle moving their fins every once in a while. Ellen has a red stripe on each side of her body. I am not sure if they were there before and part of her natural coloring or not. She also looks like she might be developing a small white dot on her wen.

Any new advice or just keep up water changes? I was thinking about getting an airstone because for a while today they were both going to the top for air quite often.

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HI and welcome!

No at this time, meds will only cause more of a problem. You need to get your biological cycle in place first.

Cycling a tank with fish can often be stressful and cause what you are seeing, so I would say water quality is playing a major role in what is going on.

I am not sure what water conditioner you are using but Prime is a great one. Using it with every water change can help detoxify the ammonia and nitrites.

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Now both Ellen and Perry have the red stripes in their fins. Perry's tails isn't fraying yet but is starting to become more clear/opaque. Neither one is as active as they should be. They just kind of flost around the middle moving their fins every once in a while. Ellen has a red stripe on each side of her body. I am not sure if they were there before and part of her natural coloring or not. She also looks like she might be developing a small white dot on her wen.

Any new advice or just keep up water changes? I was thinking about getting an airstone because for a while today they were both going to the top for air quite often.

\As touchofsky said,water changes are good for fish,so I would continue on with them. You want to try and keep those ammonia/Nitrite readings as low as you possibly can as to not cause long term damage to your fish.When I'm cycling,I water change enough to get those readings down to about 0.25,It could possibly take a bit longer to cycle,but by doing this,your fish will feel better and stay healthier. :) Personally my thoughts on your filter would be that you could do with a bigger one. Goldies are such dirty fish that we often recommend using a filer that filters 10x's the size of your tank. On my 29 ga/30 gal. tanks,I keep Emperor 400's or the Penguin 350's on them.It not only helps with adding a bit more aeration to the tank,it also seems to keep the tank much more cleaner.Those filters are bigger and have the extra space to also add extra media/etc. to hold even more good bio bugs for your tank. :exactly

What are your params in the tank reading now? Are you matching temps to the water in the tank,as big differences of temps will stress them out also.

The best way to get the right dose of salt is to go 1 teaspoon per gallon of water.You want to add that to a bit of tank water and let it dissolve,before adding it to the tank,so it does not come in contact directly with your fish ,as the salt could burn him.

A 29 gal. tank would need 29 teaspoons added to get it to a 0.1 % level which will help aid fish in healing fins,and dealing better with any Nitrites that may be appearing.

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Guest pfargo

Thanks for all the info! I did another 70% water change Saturday and checked in on them Sunday. I cannot seem to get the Ammonia level below .5ppm even with the large water changes. There is no ammonia right out of the tap. I vacuum the gravel thoroughly with every water change. I also added some aeration this weekend since it would do no harm. They are pretty lively this morning. The red streaks are getting lighter, but the ammonia is up to 1ppm this morning.

Ammonia 1ppm

Nitrites are .5

Nitrates are regestering between 0-20

GH 30

KH 40

PH 6.5

Do I need to increase water hardness or PH? I put in Ammonia remover this morning as I can't do a water change until after work today.

I think I will get a second filter like the one I have. That would be a total of 400. I tried a larger filter and it didn't fit my tank. It was too long and hit the bottom.

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Guest pfargo

What a difference a few hours make! This morning, they looked great. Now they are less active and Ellen is looking "old" I don't know how else to explain it. She doesn't look smooth anymore. There is also a strange scent coming from the tank. I know ammonia is up and I need to do another large water change after work. It is really hard to cycle a tank with fish. This will make the third large (70%+) water change in a week. I have also done one small change. Today is their 8th day in the new tank. I hope I can keep them alive during this cycling process.

What does clamped fins look like? I don't know the names of the different fins, but Perry's top two rear fins (of the quad fins) look clamped. What might this mean?

I am really trying here, but feel like I'm failing these little guys!

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Guest pfargo

I am pleased to say the both Ellen and Perry have been doing well the last 2 days. Ellen has not lost any more of her fin and their red stripes in their tails are VERY thin now. They are both energetic and happy. I am still in the first stage of cycling. Ammonia was .25 yesterday and is .50 today. No nitrites yet, but I didn't expect any yet.

I hope that the tank is cycled before June 15th as I have to have a minor surgery and will not be able to change the water for 5 days (no lifting).

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