Gizmo

[Dhlusak 0]

Ok, so it's time to concede and admit I could use help. Trying my hardest to figure this one out, but I just had a lot of crap crop up simultaneously!

First, this began in a 30 gallon, running for 6 months (cycle began on established media). Filter is a Penguin Biowheel 350. Water changes are regularly 33% every week, treated with Aqua Safe. Water parameters as below.

Along with Gizmo, 3.5" blackmoor, are 2 fantails, appx 3" each. These 3 have been in the tank together for ~4 months.

This is going to be a long explanation... After some time out of state, I came home and found my blackmoor, Gizmo, sitting on the rocks in his tank with a white spot on the side of his eye, and a couple white specks on his body. I tested the water, and it looked like the cycle had been decimated: It turns out my roommate thought it would be a good idea to replace all the filter media. The test showed 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate.

I changed 50% of the water, added Prime and light salt. The next day, I stopped to get some Maracyn and Maracyn 2, but I came home to see all 3 fish now sitting on the rocks. I changed another 50% of the water to be safe, and began treating the 30 gallon with both maracyn and maracyn 2. Unfortunately, I didn't decide to QT him.

At the end of the treatment, it looks like a cranky sick Gizmo has taken a good rip out of the tail of one of the fantails.

Now, 3 days following the treatment, I have moved Gizmo to an established 10 gallon. The 2 fantails seem fine with the exception of the torn off fin. As far as the fantail goes, I have increased the salt % in the tank, and added Melafix. The tank continues to be going through frequent water changes to get that back under control. Now they seem to be doing wonderful.

Gizmo, however, has not improved greatly. The tiny white specs on his body remain, and his eye seems to be worsening. I'm lost on what further I can do at this time, as I have already tried some of the tried and true antibiotics.

The 10 gallon he is in now is equipped with a heater, I have salt at hand, of course... but I sure could use some further ideas! I will try to add a picture of the eye if that would help.

[touchofsky 0]

The eye sounds like either trauma or a bacterial infection. I would make sure to keep the water absolutely pristine by doing regular water changes (you obviously have been very aware of that . Also, I would salt the tank. Start out at 0.1%.

A picture would be very helpful.

[Dhlusak 0]

Here's the best I can do right now; I'm still not the greatest at photos.

I'll try for more soon, but time to get in the garage to work on the car. Hopefully it's identifiable; the white specs were too small to show with the blurring in the image.

Oh, and I neglected to add: The parameters in the tank he is now housed in are near pristine: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 10 nitrate, 8.2 PH, added the salt to 1%

The problem eye should be obvious; it also looks like a clear film has developed. I initially had thought popeye hence the treatment with Maracyn 1 and 2, just to cover all the bases. The eye does seem larger than his left eye

Edited April 21, 2007 by Stupidfly

[Shamu23 8]

Hey, sorry to hear about your fishie, do you think the white specks could be ich? The eye looks like an infection to me but Im not an expert so it might also be something else. Popeye could be a sign of dropsy. Does the eye look alot bigger than the other one, or just a little bit, I cant really tell by the picture.

[Dhlusak 0]

His eye looks much larger.

I'm skeptical that the white specks are ich: It seems those white specks are disappearing, either as a result of the maracyn's earlier, or the improved water conditions. Ich would be getting drastically worse by now, no?

Gizmo has been flashing like crazy now, darting non-stop for 30 or so seconds. His dorsal looks like it has developed an odd curve to one side, as well, but may again be the poor water.

So frustrating! Is it possible it's dropsy, and just was not affected by the full maracyn treatment? I'm so lost on the next steps :-(

[Dhlusak 0]

Pic just to show the size difference. Unfortunately, when I told gizmo to "just walk it off", it didn't quite work.

Edited April 22, 2007 by Stupidfly

[touchofsky 0]

Unfortunately, the pictures aren't clear enough for me to see the problem with the eye.

It does sound like a bacterial problem, though. I would suggest keeping the water absolutely pristine, adding 1/8 tsp. of epsom salts per 5 gallons of water (in case it is popeye) and feeding Medi-Gold which is available online. If you need the links to where you can buy this, please let me know.

The film on the eye should clear up pretty readily. Moors often have one eye larger than the other. Is the eye increasing in size dramatically over a short period of time?

[Devs 2]

Sorry to hear about Gizmo.I agree with Touchofsky though,as it looking to be trauma,possibly bacterial.Any ornaments ,plants,etc,that he could of injured the eye on?

Ick spots would actually look as if someone sprinkled grains of salt upon the fish.If there was a water quality problem,Moors will often be the first to show you,as they do/will show up with odd white flat spots like that.Being that the spots immediately started fading after water changes,I would assume that it was the water problem itself to cause it.,and that the clean water is now taking care of it.

With Telescoped eye fish,alot of times,you'll find that their eyes aren't always evenly matched.My Moor Mambo has one eye way bigger,and for her, it's just her normal growth.

Is Gizmo still flashing like that?

Are you matching tank temps when changing out the water? Is the ten gal. salted only,or have you started the maracyn in there?At what percent do you have the tank? How did you add the salt?

You also have to watch ,with your ph being so high,this makes any ammonia reading more severe.Is there ample filtration on this tank? His behavior certainly sounds like something in the water is irritating him.What are the params on this 10 gal.?

[Dhlusak 0]

The 10 gallon is using a Penguin Biowheel 125 which should be about sufficient. I have not used the maracyns since I moved him from the large tank after the full 5 day treatment.

Salt was added during a water change prior to introducing him: 5 gallons had 5 teaspoons of aquarium salt added, and sat out overnight to match temperature and allow the PH to fluxuate prior to being added into the tank. Also added prime just to be on the safe side.

What worries me about the unbalanced eyes is this was not the case prior to this. That, or I simply never noticed it until one was accented by the white splotch.

Injuries, you know, that never crossed my mind. The tank he was originally housed in has a bed of large rocks (1-1.5" gravel) which could easily have caught his eye when he was doing the regular grazing dance (which I might add is incredibly funny with Gizmo, as he goes completely vertical when sucking on rocks). I'm feeling pretty dumb that I didn't consider that one. The rest of the contents are soft fake plants.

I haven't seen him flash yesterday, but I was out much of the day.

Regarding the antibiotic food, I do have a good amount of antibiotic food from Jungle Labs. Is this comperable?

Also, is there a large difference between aquarium salt and epsom salt?

I so need a new camera. Somehow, my nearly 8 year old camera seems outdated

[Devs 2]

With Moors having such limited vision in comparison to other Fancies,I always throw that factor in on any eye problem.My tanks are for the main part,free of decorations,plants,etc.,because of this. Rocks very may could have been the culprit.Moors tend to get a little "spazzy" at feeding time anyway,because they don't see as well At least mine do.

And in truth,I never knew that Telescopes eyes were for the most part,two different sizes usally when it comes to their globes,at least with the fish I've turned up with,anyway-until Mambo wasn't feeling so well once,and I had to place her in the q-tank.That's when I saw how lop-sided her eyes really were.I've since found that in the less quality fish,you do tend to see that quite a bit.Mambo's one eye is huge in comparison to the other,so ever since that,I pay alot more attention to all teles that I buy. .

As for the Jungle food,although I own it,I've never gone without Medi-gold in the house,so I haven't had to use it yet,as the Medi-gold always does the job for me..I never hesitate to tell people how much that's saved a new or sick fish for me,so I'm very leary too go andd try the Jungle.

[touchofsky 0]

Like Devs, I always have Medi-Gold on hand and it is very good. I did buy Jungle Brand, but have not used it, so I cannot comment on its effectiveness. You may wish to invest in Medi-Gold, but in the meantime I would start with the Jungle Brand.

I don't keep moor or telescope eyes, so I am not really up on their special requirements, so it is great that Devs is giving you some advice on their care.

[Dhlusak 0]

Well, it looks like something from the regimen has hit it, maybe even the water. I haven't seen him flash at all in the past 2 days, and his eye is finally clearing up... time to change up my tank contents!

I think it's time to seriously put more consideration into making one of my tanks for the "special kids"

Thank you so much, guys. I was extremely worried this would turn into something worse after not being affected by the treatments.

[Devs 2]

Well,I'm really glad to hear that Gizmo is feeling/looking much better. Moors are really special fish that I've kept most of my life.I've kept them many times in mixed fancies tanks and not had too many problems.It's alot easier though when you do realize that with them not having good vision as the other fish,that you have to watch out a bit more for them. And as mentioned,with you having such a high ph,you'll really have to be careful with any traces of ammonia,because ammonia is much deadlier with a higer ph,and that can burn his eyes too and cause that cloudiness.

Continued pristene params ,and yeah Gizmo!!

[touchofsky 0]

Great news! I am so glad that Gizmo is on the mend

[Dhlusak 0]

Oh noes... Not so much a good sudden turn... It looks like the water parameters weren't the only thing off with him

Last night, I saw Gizmo had again resumed sitting on the rocks. He remains in the QT tank, solid water parameters (Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 10, didn't test PH yet). While his eye is not cloudy anymore, there is still a white splotch on the side of his eye that has not been going away with time. Water remains at .1% salinity

And his poop? Extremely thin strings... never seen THAT before. I figured it could be constipation, but I have been regularly feeding him peas.

I think I'm going to rip my hair out; while I'm at work now and can't so much observe him any more, I think this little guy is going to make me go bald shortly.

Any reccomendations outside of Medi-gold? My order is in, already

Edited April 29, 2007 by Stupidfly

[Devs 2]

Are you only feeding him meals of Peas,as that can change the color of poo if that's his only diet right now.

Is his poo "food colored" or white?

Being that it's been 9 days and he's still bottom sitting ,I would definitely think that something is still ailing him.

I still think that the medicated food is the first place to start.When did you order it?

At this point if you are sure that your params have all been in perfect order,it may indeed be a secondary bacterial infection that set in. Do you see any redness in the eye,or anywhere else on his body?I know it's really hard with Moors,but try and look around his belly and where his anal fins and body meet.

When you treated with the Maracyns,did you run the full treatment,or did you move him to the ten before the 5 days were up?