My Goldfish Cant Open His Mouth!

[takumi 0]

Hmmm doesn't sound good! I'll try to keep the post at the top here and in 911...hope we get lucky! How did it go with the baby food and peas?

My dearest country has lots and lots of summer days he he (we only have 2 seasons here...) We take good care of our natural resources, so you'll be able to find a wide variety of wild life (scarlet macaws, howler monkeys, jaguars, white collar peccaries, humpback whales, dolphins...and on and on...). If you like to take a peek at a lodge were I used to work and bunch of pics give me your email address so I can send you their website. Cause I'm not sure if I'm aloud to post it here...

[takumi 0]

Hi! Shamu has a post going on here http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=58110 but to be totally honest with you I'm not quite an expert and we came to the point where your expertise is needed. I suggested a double posting to get someone's attention since we were not being lucky with much replies on the other post. I'm sorry if it wasn't a good idea but little fishie hasn't been eating for many many days now...Hope it's ok with you guys! So just giving some info and bumping post on top...

[JenW 1]

Hi Shamu lets treat this as the thread for an on topic discussion and try to figure out what's happening - and i'll ask my Mod friends not to merge the two threads together. I had a look at your other thread and unfortunately had trouble following it - so this a good place to start again.

Have you tried picking your fish up in your hands for a close look at the mouth? Gently put a bit of pressure on both corners to see if the mouth opens. It's important because if it doesn't open, your fish will starve and sadly this is a good argument for euthanising. So hold your fish in your left hand and put pressure on the corners with the thumb and finger of your right. I have done this on a small fry who has trouble opening his mouth - so it can be done.

If you see an opening to the mouth, but it's just unable to function, you can try grabbing a toothpick and resting it on the bottom 'lip' to see if it'll open - making sure the pointy ends stay away from any flesh.

Is there any way you can take a pic?

Also, is your water perfect? With a loss of body mass and a constant source of nutrients, the immunity will weaken making him susceptible to further illness..

[Shamu23 8]

Hey, he really seemed to like the bvabyfish food and especially the peas, I dont know if he was able to eat them though. I think i've finally figure out whats wrong with him! Here is exactly what it said in the book:

Fish Tuberculosis (TB) is the most common of all bacterial fish diseases. This form of tuberculosis is not infectious to people. Almost 80 percent of all aquarium fish carry latent TB infections. They are very difficult to reconize because the symptoms differ from fish to fish. Also, parasites take hold of weakened fish quickly and conceal the underlying cause. Poor filtration combined with overcrowding is a sure path to TB. Typical symtoms are weight loss, bloody ulcers, gill and fin deterioration, and even spinal and jaw deformation. Although TB cannot be cured, many fish recover when the general environment is improved and when secondary infections are treated.

I got this from The Natural Aquarium Handbook by Ines Scheurmann

It also said somewhere else in the book that sitting on the bottom is another sympton.

The stringy stuff is also coming back on his head. I will try to find a big tub that I can keep him in until I get a bigger aquarium for him. But I only have the small filter, do you think it would still be better to keep him in the tub with the small filter until I can get a better filter? I'll try to post some pictures of my fishie and his tank later.

It sounds nice where you live, whales and fish are my favorite animals. My email adress is Groudon_rules@hotmail.com I'd love to see those pictures.

[Shamu23 8]

Hi, I have tried opening his mouth, it didnt work but i'll try it with a toothpick soon. His water condition is good and improving. I will try to post some pictures later. Please dont make me euthonize him he's a tough little fishie. He still swims actively, but he sits on the bottom sometimes, he always goes for his food.

[devinzbaby 0]

Aww, we would never "Make" you euthonize him, its just something suggested with the fish has no way of improvement and is suffering. So go ahead and try with a toothpick, and if he can open it a little, maybe try feeding him some finely crushed soaked flakes or TINY pellets soaked. We need to get some food in him to start improvement.

[devinzbaby 0]

i have never tried this before, but you know how when you take care of a baby animal, you feed it milk through a tiny eye-dropper, maybe try soaking flakes in a small cup, and sucking them up with some water into an eyedropper and force feeding him a little bit?

I would wait till a mod says the ok, because ive never done it with fish before, but i had to do it with my dog when he was a puppy, and it worked great.

[takumi 0]

Well it is certainly very interesting info...not quite sure it is indeed that but let's wait for someone else to share their opinions.

So you manged to feed him? If the white stuff is back probably there's also something going on with the water quality. Have you checked the params lately (as in today)?

I read on your other post you're not dealing so good with putting him down...and I totally get you. Being an animal lover you have a huge heart, but that love also comes with a big deal of responsabilities and sometimes big and hard decisions. One of them being euthanasia. Fishie has been ill for quite a while and if nothing said here helps him feel better it wouldn't be fair to let him starve to death or get weaker and weaker until something else hets into him and kills him. Everybody here has lost many many pets...me being one of them. I know it's hard, I had to take that decision several times (dogs, fishes, turttles, ducks, geckos) but honey that's something you'll have to face eventually IF it comes to it....which I hope not!

The best thing is that you are learning how to be a better fish keeper and you are learning from your, mine and everybody elses mistakes...don't give up on him just yet, lets hope he can recover from this soon!

Oh and I sent you the email already

[Shamu23 8]

Hi, I will try opening his mouth today. I think he might have TB cause in my book it said that it can cause jaw deformations. I'll still try to post some pictures later.

[Shamu23 8]

Thanks, I will try to open his mouth today, one of my friends has voluntered to help me. I will try to post some pictures later. Im not giving up yet, but I know if nothing else works I might have to consider euthinising him. I have already had a lot of pets die and I dont take it all that well. All of my first 8 fish except one died. I sure hope he gets better though. Oh and what did you think about putting him in a bigger tub for a while?

I will look at those pictures soon, thanks for sending them.

[Shamu23 8]

Hi, here are some pictures of him ( they arent very good because he wouldnt hold still whenever he saw that I had a camera in my hand.)

I really hope this works if it doesnt then i'll post them on my site and i'll send you the web adress

I looked at your site, your right it really is beautiful there.

[Shamu23 8]

Thpictures dont show up on my computer, please tell me if they show up on yours.

[takumi 0]

Nop. Can't see them!

The bigger tub would definetely be a great option just as long as you keep making water changes and testing the water to check if everythings ok. Try it with the liquid food again...poor guy must be starving!

I've lost 8 fishies in the last 6 months so I feel you I don't take loses that well either!

I'm glad you like the place! I'll try to send you some more addresses...

Oh honey I really really hope he can be saved! Legs, fingers, eyelashes, hair, tongue, eyes...crossed for you both

[JenW 1]

I certainly don't think your fish is ready to say goodbye yet - there's things we can try but we have to do it quickly. If you can find an opening to the mouth then this is a good sign and what i'm going to attempt to do is take some pictures of how to open the mouth and then how to place the tooth pic on the bottom lip (i'll need to get someone over to my place to take the shots.... so bear with me).

In the meantime, when you put pressure on the mouth, the best place to do it is from under the lower jaw (after testing this 10 minutes ago) - it should cause the mouth to open. A toothpick won't work if there's no opening because we don't want to use the pointy ends especially as you can actually pierce the flesh. I guess the best way to explain it is if you find an opening - picture placing a skewer stick across your bottom lip so it's laying horizontally and then when you push the skewer down, it naturally brings your bottom lip down.. This is what we're trying to achieve with your fish.

See how you go and try to make sure the water stays absolutely perfect for him - it'll be necessary.

Now to address your concerns about TB - I'm 99.9% certain it's not this... There's several signs of TB such as loss of appetite, emaciation, loss of colour, exopthalmus (protruding eyes) and also dropsy however, these are all nonspecific signs that accompany many diseases...

Your fish may have a broken jaw or there's a possibility of infection. In some cases bacteria can invade along the mouth, damaging the ligaments making it impossible to open and close the mouth.. But see what you can do and we'll take it from there.

PS. And yes, if you can find an opening Jenny's suggestion of feeding via syringe is a good one - it's necessary to try and get some food into him soon.

Shamu - i've merged your 911 thread with this one as you continue to post here. We can't have two separate active threads going and we can't hop from one to the other as it's both time consuming and annoying - so we'll have to make do with this one which will hopefully stay on topic

Edited April 6, 2007 by JenW

[Shamu23 8]

Hi, we tried opening his mouth and it worked, but we couldnt get any food into him, there was like gooey stuff in his mouth, what do you think that is? I got a close look at him yesterday and his jaw really does look kind of deformed. We also noticed a white stringy thing in one of his gills. My friend thinks she saw him eating something, I sure hope he did. His ph is still at 6.8, nitrite is at 0, but his ammonia is rising, it was at 0 but now its at 1.2 or 2.4 ( I couldnt quite tell the colors apart). I added cycle yesterday for the first time to his tank. I will put him in a bigger tub once we get more distilled water cause I realized that I still have a fluval submersible which is for over 20 gallons. My fishie seemed happier today but I dont know if he's improving. He had a small, stringy, white poop today for the first time in a long time.

[Shamu23 8]

I will post the pictures on my site ( I will try anyway) I will give you the adress soon once I've posted them.

[Shamu23 8]

I posted the pictures on my site. Go to www.Orca-World.piczo.com and click on Goldfish pictures. I still have an empty 46 gallon tank which was supposed to be a saltwater tank, but Im gonna half fill it and put him in there ( I only have enough filter power for 29 gallons) until he gets a new tank. I have to wait till we get new water on thursday though.

[JenW 1]

He could have an infection - especially if there's excessive mucous around the mouth and gills. For now, I would add 1 teaspoon of rock, sea or aquarium salt to the tank (predissolved) to act as a tonic. Then let us know how he reacts to this as we'll try to raise it to 0.3% slowly.

Why are you using distilled water? It contains absolutely no essential nutrients or electrolytes so you'd be much better off using tap water. And if you get a good tap water conditioner, you can increase your waterchanges - a must in this case.

What is the ph out of your tap?

As your ammonia is between 1.2-2.4, your water will need to be changed ASAP because this will have such a negative affect on his health So you could do an immedate 50% (using only tap water and a conditioner) then wait a couple of hours and do another 50% - this is to slowly introduce tap water, then you can lose the distilled water.

I don't think Cycle does much and all you really need is a good conditioner and clean, fresh water

[Shamu23 8]

hi, are you sure I should replace 50% of the water with tapwater? If you think thats okay then i'll do that this after noon. The ph of the tapwater is 7.7, thats what I was worried about because it is much higher than his 6.8. I'll add the salt as soon as I can get some ( probably on tuesday). He's not sitting on the bottom anymore, he's mostly at the surface now like most goldfish that i've seen. Is this a sign of improvement? He was much more active this morning than he usually is.

[Shamu23 8]

I put him in the big aquarium now, its not quite half filled so approximately 20 gallons. I used some tapwater. His ph is at 7, nitrite 0, and ammonia 0. His water quality is much better now. He seemed a little scared at fist but he seems quite happy now. I had a sample of some stuff thats supposed to reduce stress, it was only for 10 gallons but I added it anyway cause I didnt want him to become too stressed by the move. Did you guys look at the pictures? I'll try to post some of him in his new temporary home tomorrow.

[Shamu23 8]

Theres 15-20 gallons in his tank, how much salt should I add?

[Shamu23 8]

Oh yeah, and Happy Easter Everyone!

[JenW 1]

If there's 15-20 gallons of water, go with 15 teaspoons in total. The ph out of your tap is a much healthier level for goldies and 7.7 is ideal So I would try to work it so you have 100% tap water in the next day or 2 - making sure to use a tap water conditioner.

It sounds like he's improving which is great...

[Shamu23 8]

Hi, we have some seasalt so i'll add that first thing tomorrow morning. His ph is 7.2 or 7.4 right now(those stupid colors are almost identical its just about impossible to tell which one it is ) Ammonia and nitrite are still zero. I saw him sitting one the bottom again today, but I think it might be because he is still scared. He was swimming around all morning and he holds his dorsal fin high. I added some more tapwater today, I used some for all my fish tanks but just a little bit to replace evaporated water. Did you look at the pictures?

[Shamu23 8]

I almost forgot, the salt wont harm him will it? He's just over 1 inch and still very young and also when and how do I remove the salt? I'll wait for your answer before I add the salt.