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Pearlscale Has Red Spots On Sides And Belly Help!


jdesio

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Hi. My Pearlscale Theodore hasn't been feeling too well lately. Earlier in the week he started to get a lot of water blisters around his butt and on the bottom of his belly (which really isn't that unusual for him). A day or two later, he started getting clear fluid around his eyes. Theodore had developed this same problem in October, and with the help of LaurieP, he got better. Here is a link to the thread.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...topic=53426&hl=

So I decided to do the same treatment as before. I added 1/8th teaspoon of epsom salt for every five gallons, switched his food to Metro-med, and started the Maracyn II treatment. I went through the five day treatment and at the end of it, Theodore looked a lot better..... except for these red spots that appeared on his sides and belly. I decided to give him acouple of days to adjust from the medicine, before adding anything else to the tank. So on Friday morning, I notice that some of the water blisters were coming back and that the red spots were still there. So I started another round of Maracyn II......Also.....just to note......I did two water changes inbetween the treatments. Around 17 gallons total......

I just got back from a two day trip and Theodore seems to be acting a little bit better. But the fluid around his eyes have once again appeared. The red spots are also still there and his back fins are a little frayed near the top. He has been pooping a lot.....long brown strands (due to the MetroMed) and has been eating....just not as fast as normal. He seems to be hungry, but does not have the same excitement that he alwasy does.

I just want to make sure that I am doing everything possible and that if anyone has any advice.....expecially about the red spots, please let me know.

Thanks.

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Sorry....I forgot to post this:

Ammonia: 0ppm

Nitrite: 0ppm

Nitrate: 1ppm

Ph: 7.5

Tank Size: 30 gallons

Filters: Two: Penguin Bio Wheel 150 and a AquaTech filter

Water Changes: Once a week, with a vacuum. Around 7 to 10 gallons.

Other Fish: 0....Only Theodore

Usually feed Theodore a Pea gel mixture, but now is on the MetroMed.

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Hi jdesio, sorry to hear Theodore is having more problems.

Any chance you can post us a picture of the reddness?

Often red, bloody patches that develop on the underside or around the fins can be indicitve of a internal bacteria infection.

How long has he been on metromed?

At this point I think I would continue with the 2nd round of M2, and then follow it again with the Maracyn 1.

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This is the way my pearlie Hiro looked. I started Maracyn treatment too late as I was gone for a month when it started and he passed away. I hope Theodore pulls through, he is a beautiful fish. :heart

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Jdesio, to answer your question, yes. Once you are done with M2, do a 50% water change and run carbon in your filter for 24 hours. Then test before you add the M1, if the params are off a bit do another change to bring them in line before adding the M1.

Those look like some pretty big blisters. Can't say as to what I would call it, but hopefully the meds will work.

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Thanks for the help. I am a little worried about the clear fluid around his eyes. The fluid does not look to be going away yet. I hope Theodore will start showing some signs of improvement soon.

Like I said earlier, he always seems to get these "water blisters". I don't know why......the water is always in the correct params and I clean roughly ten galloons a week. I can't seem to get rid of them :(

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Well Theodore isn't looking any better this morning. The clear fluid is still around his eyes and he is not as active as he usually is. I don't think the M2 is helping him.

Should I forget about the last two treatments of M2, do a water change, and start the M1 today?

Also, should I still be adding the epsom salt when I do water changes?

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The little bubbles he has on his rear are from the excess fluid he has in his body right now. Consistant with the fluid around his eyes. At a guess I would say that given he has had the water bubbles before he may actually have some weakened internal organs that affect his osmoregulation making him more predisposed to trouble with fluid retintion. B/c of the scales pearlies have dropsy seems to manifest itself with the skin actually pushing out, bubbling, from inbetween the scales. Look at the scales at the top of his tail or where they run from the front of his dorsal to his head for any raised jaggedy areas.

My Bumble had the same thing and they eventually spread to cover most of him. I wish I could find a picture as I know I have one. Sadly I eventually lost him but what helped him the most and saw him almost beat it were Metromeds, that you currently have him on.

Keep treating him for bacterial infection and if you dont think your seeing any improvement or he gets worse I would get him on a different broad spectrum antibiotic as soon as you can. Im not actually familar with M2 or M1 as we dont have them in the UK but as far as I can tell M2 is for gram negative bacteria (most often indicated with dropsy) is M1 then for gram positive bacteria? If it is then I would try that and failing a response try a different antibiotic altogether. Ill PM you a link to a website with more info on antibiotics for fish.

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Thanks for the help. I will probably do a 50% water change tonight and then switch over to Maracyn 1 instead of Maracyn 2. Unless there is some reason not to........

I checked the scales by his dorsal, head and tail.....they are all fine. No bubbles or pineconing. So at least that is one good thing!

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Well I just changed 15 gallons of water and switched to Maracyn 1. Theodore seemed to perk up from the water change. He was swimming around more......so hopefully I am on the right track.

I am still not sure if I should continue with the epsom salt? He still has the water blisters and the fluid around his eyes.

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Sorry I couldn't get back to you................

It is not a good idea to change in the middle of a treatment, it can make the bacteria more resistant to the antibotics.

But since you already did, can't go back now. Hopefully it will not make it stronger.

Is there any salt in the tank? If not, then you can add some epsom salt to the tank. The dose is different than reg. salt..............

1/8 tsp per 5 gallons. That should help with the fluid retention.

Yes Yazoo, that is what M2 and M1 do.

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I had a feeling that I shouldn't have switched over, but it looked like the M2 was not helping.

I just added back in the epsom salt that I took out last night from the water change.

Theodore is still not doing any better. He is just hanging out a the bottom of the tank. He is still eating the MetroMed, but it just takes him a while to get to it. He has been swimming kind of slow lately.

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Sometimes it can be a slow process. I know when they are sick we want to rush in and hurry hurry to make them better, but often we need to treat and wait for healing to occur.

How much epsom salt do you have in the tank?

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When I did the first round of M2, I put 1/8th tsp per 5 gallons. Since then, I have only added epsom salt when I do the water changes....So for example, last night I changed 15 gallons....I put in three 1/8th tsps.

As of right now, nothing much has changed. The fluid around his eyes is still there, as well as the bubbles. He has been pretty unactive.

I added the second round of M1 about an hour ago as well.

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Ok, you can use the epsom and do another round. It is only recommended to up the salt once over the inital dose, with the exception of replacing what you remove. You could try that see what happens.

Oh, what is the temp of the tank? Often raising it to 80F will help too. Just make sure you have plenty of oxygen airating the tank.

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So I am a little confused.... So I can add another round of epson salt to tank, even though I have some in there? So my tank is 30 gallons....I should put another six 1/8th tsp in? Just want to double check before I do it.

The temp right now is 78 degrees.

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Yep, you can add another round (1/8tsp per 5 gallons) again. This will raise it a bit and hopefully take down the fluid soon.

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Well Theodore is still not doing any better. The fluid is still around his eyes and is now showing up on the flap that covers his gills. Not sure what it is called. They look swollen and puffy. He has been hanging out more on the bottom. When he swims, he just swims slowly, hovering over the gravel. He is still eating the MetroMed and is still pooping.

I don't know what else to do.

I just gave Theodore the 4th does of M1.

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Hi. When I fed Theodore this morning, I noticed a little, tiny red line by his back bottom fin. It almost looks like a tiny vein. I haven't been able to see it because he has been hovering close to the gravel for the past couple of days. I am not sure what it is.

Today I will be giving the 5th dose of Maracyn 1. What should I do tomorrow? Can I do another round? He has gone through a lot of medication lately.... it just makes me nervous to keep giving him more. Do you think I need to try something else.....beside the Maracyns........

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The red vein you see in his tail is all just part of the same thing jdesio, all of his symptoms indicate bacterial infection but the antibiotics dont seem to be working or taking much effect. The bacteria involved maybe resistant to erythromycin.

I know how you feel about the constant medicating. Sometimes it is better to have a bit of respite from the drugs. Will you be completing your Maracyn treatment on the 5th dose? Like I said previously, im not familiar with that med. though I know its antibiotic based. Does it mention anything about whether its safe to repeat the treatment?

If the antibiotic course is complete without providing results then standard course of treatment with people and other animals is to switch to another antibiotic. A friend of mine went through about 5 different kinds to beat a urinary tract infection once.

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I just put in the last does of Maracyn 1. It says on the box that I can repeat the 5 doses only once if needed. I just don't know if I should do another round of it tomorrow or find something else? I don't even know what other medications I can use to treat this. Any suggestions on brands?

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Hi JD - so the blisters are still appearing?

Unfortunately I think either the kidneys or liver (or both) are involved because he's unable to expel fluids via the normal channels which would indicate a problem in his osmotic system :(

Whenever bacterial infection causes fluid buildup (leading to dropsy) the biggest suspect is usually aeromonas followed by pseudomonas just because of their diffusive nature and sheer numbers in the water. Unfortunately some infections don't respond to in water meds and may depend on injectables to resolve but this would involve finding a vet that can either inject for you or can supply you with something like Baytril (which is excellent for both gram negative and gram positive bacteria) so you can inject yourself.

Aeromonas or pseudomonas don't always invade while a fish is stressed, they can also gain entry when their numbers become so great, they need to look further for a source of nitrogen and this is when they gain access to your fish. I know that many say never to rinse out filter media until it becomes full but this can become a breeding ground for bacteria as they feed off nitrogenous waste so keeping your gravel free from mulm and your filters relatively free from gunk is a good start. Then increasing waterchanges will help keep the numbers down.

Unfortunately in your case, it sounds like it has invaded internally and is compromising the organs and the only suggestion I would make is to try and get some injectable meds as I've been in the same boat as you and the only method (out of the many I tried) that worked was injecting with Baytril.

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