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Bottom Sitting Ranchu


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Ammonia Level? 0

Nitrite Level? 0

Nitrate level? 5

Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? 8.0

Ph Level out of the Tap? ?

Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 90 gallon established

What is the name and size of the filter/s? sump filter, aquaclear, submersible

How often do you change the water and how much? 40 % every week

How many fish in the tank and their size? 5 goldfish, (1 - 5", 1 - 4", 1- 3", 2- 2.5")

What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime

Any medications added to the tank? Melafix

Add any new fish to the tank? Not for 2 months

What do you feed your fish? ProGold soaked, spirulina flakes soaked, bloodworms, peas

Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt",

bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Fungus and open sore

Any unusual behavior like staying

at the bottom, not eating, ect..? Bottom sitting ever since I got him

I got a chocolate ranchu from a breeder a couple of months ago. I also acquired a calico and an orange and white ranchu from him at about the same time. Ever since I acquired these fish the chocolate ranchu has been bottom sitting most of the time. I took him to the breeder to see if there were parasites or anything else that could be causing this. He told me that many of the other black ranchu from the same tank were also bottom sitting but had no disease that could be attributed to this behaviour. He offered to take back my ranchu but I'd already grown attached to it. He told me as long as it didn't develop sores from bottom sitting it should be fine. Unfortunately, it has recently developed a sore and some fungus on its stomach. Otherwise, it is active at feeding time or when I approach the tank. It eats fine, swims relatively well and is otherwise healthy. The breeder feels the bottom sitting may be a result of its tail shape and it may bottom sit because it tires easily when swimming. My dilemma: should I return him to the breeder? I would hate to have ongoing problems with this ranchu that may affect my other goldfish. All the other fish are very healthy and active. I really like this chocolate guy as he is very friendly. Any opinions as to what would be the best thing to do? :(

Angela

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I don't know,but to me I wouldn't think he'd be bottom sitting constantly because of the shape of his tail,and would have to guess that something else has to be bothering him.You've allready had him a couple months,so that doesn't look to be changing any time soon :unsure: Is his tail shape so different from other Ranchu's?,as all my Ranchu's are very active and constantly swimming around.

Returning him is up to you,but you have to realize that he's allready been swimming around for a few months with all your other goldfish.Did you happen to properly quarrantine and do any sort of salt or Prazi treatment for Parasites when you got them,before adding them to your tank?

Usually when you hear of fish bottom sitting,it's for a couple of reasons.A) He has a SB disorder,and has trouble swimming up and around the tank),or B) He's infested with flukes/Costia,etc..Usually when you walk over and look at them,they swim fine.They often rest though because the Parasites put them in a weakened state.

By what you've said,it doesn't sound like a SB problem. Your Params are in tact,and the other fish are behaving normal,so I'd definately look close at this one.Can you take a look at the gills?Do they look bright red and meaty---pale grayish/pinkish----do they look gloppy/or tattered for lack of a better word? Does his poo look normal/any signs of clamped finsredness near pec fins?

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To answer all of your questions:

1. poo is normal

2. He was treated with Prazi and Medigold when I first got him

3. Gills are fine. Breeder also looked at them and found nothing. No spitting, heavy breathing or scraping

4. No clamped fins or redness, just sore on stomach that recently developed

5. Can swim up and down no problem

6. Tail is different from other ranchu. He is from the Thai Ranchu Centre. Very pronounced tuck and is fused at top. Extremely smooth, VERY curved back, much more than my other ranchus. Very compact body and heavy wen. He looks awkward when swimming compared to my other guys.

Any ideas? :blink:

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Devs, just wondering if you've come up with anything based on the answers to your questions. Sorry for being so persistant but if I can do something for this little guy, I'd love to start it right away. :)

Angela

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Sorry Angela,I was on but not on.

To tell you the truth,I'm not sure here. :unsure: If it's not Parasites,and you see absolutely no signs of bacterial gill disease or bacteria problems-maybe it really is just specifically him,or should I say them? How big is this guy?

Two other odd things came to mind,that was my own experiences.I once had an Moor that did this bottom sitting.After checking a million things,I finally realized that the filter current was too strong.She could swim fine,but most times she chose not to because of being swept all over.It finally hit me when I saw that she always sat in the same place.doh.gif

The last thing is that I recently lost My big Choco Oranda after 3 years.She was never the healthiest to begin with,but kept continued growing,eating,moving on.The last year of her life was spent bottom sitting,and during that time I couldn't figure out why. She had a big wen-no ,huge wen,and it finally dawned on me that she hardly swam because her wen was so heavy. Well in the last few months it got to where she would barely move at all. About a month ago,my electric went out for over 10 hours while I was at work.When I came home she had gone into Dropsy.She was gone a few days later.

Sorry to seem like I'm off topic here,but what I was getting too was that when it was time to get her out of the water,I was stunned at the actual extreme heaviness of her head. I now know why the poor girl didn't swim....It was that heavy. :cry1

Anyway Angela, I guess I'm just trying to look at all angles here. If the fish isn't sick,the filter's not too strong,and his wen doesn't weigh a ton,maybe it really is just the fact of how he was bred-If that's the case,then you may be constantly dealing with sores and ulcers,so it's something that you must think aboutr. Very seldom do we have an opportunity to take a fish back after a few months,so you may want to consider it if you still have that option. I'm sorry if I haven't helped much.Normally bottom sitting can be figured out pretty quick.

Are you able to post a pic of this Ranchu?

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Thanks so much for replying Devs. I don't think its the current or anything because even my smallest fish, who are 2.5 inches are okay. This ranchu is about 3.5 inches but very heavy bodied. I should have mentioned before that its wen has covered most of its eyes so it doesn't see well. Not at all in front. Maybe that is a factor in its not wanting to swim! Perhaps if the breeder could trim his wen for me it would help? I will try to post pics but I'm horrible at photographing fish. I will have to drag Katalyst up here to take pictures since she's pretty good at it (she only lives 30 minutes away from me). Maybe I'll finally show everyone the rest of my fish then. :) This ranchu does have a pretty extreme shape though. Very deep body, extremely curved spine, severe tail tuck. Maybe its time to stop breeding for a better curve on ranchus of this guys problems are any indication. :(

Angela

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Are you still contagious? My hubby is still sick too. Maybe you can swap germs and create a superbug! :D If your up to it, pop by tomorrow. I still have rocks here for you. Maybe we can get Devs a clear picture of this poor little chocolate guy. I'll have to scape all this algae off the tank glass that insists on showing up within hours of taking it off!

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I do hope it's fixable Angela.My girl couldn't see either.Alot of people like that look I guess,but knowing that she couldn't see,always made me so sad for some reason.I guess I'm strange though. :yeah:

Let us know what happens with him okay? If it was the way they were bred,that too is very sad. Perfection definately can have it's share of flaws too. :unsure:

Did ya ever see my pics?99% of them stink,so I won't judge. :D

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Thanks Devs. I will try to get some good pictures (who am I kidding, actually Kat will try to get some good pictures). Do you think trimming his wen is a good idea? Do they feel pain when it's done? As long as it doesn't hurt him I'd like to do it so he can see. I feel sad that he can't see as well. I guess you're not so strange after all! :) I'd hate to give him back as he is so sweet and interactive. He reminds me of a puppy the way he bites at your finger through the glass. :D

Angela

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Are you still contagious? My hubby is still sick too. Maybe you can swap germs and create a superbug! :D If your up to it, pop by tomorrow. I still have rocks here for you. Maybe we can get Devs a clear picture of this poor little chocolate guy. I'll have to scape all this algae off the tank glass that insists on showing up within hours of taking it off!

It only hurts when I breathe. :) Hmmm creating a new type of infectious disease is not exactly what I want to put on my perm. resident application. :blink: I have to get this house cleaned which I planned on doing tonight but here I am at the computer. If Markus came home right now I'd be killed. Buckets, syphons, 40 lb. bag of salt all in the middle of the kitchen floor. I nuked Patches old tank and then hit a bit of a wall and 3 cups of tea I am still sitting here. lol

I just don't want to give you guys what I think I'm getting. Started out thinking it was a rotten cold but its down into my chest and now my ears are clogged. :( I really do want to get a photo of the little guy as well as the rest of your beauties. I keep telling Markus about the last fish you brought home, I swear you should call it Moby!

Okay off to throw everything in the basement clean. :rofl

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I'm here Monday doing homework as usual (which I should be doing now! :o ) if that's better for you. Hope you feel better. Be careful about the clogged ears though! I had a cold like that once and as soon as my ears clogged I got an ear infection which I've NEVER had! That then turned into a sinus infection and then an ear infection in the other ear. It was the worst cold I've ever had. Couldn't shake it for weeks and I don't usually get sick. Even when I do get sick, I can usually get rid of it in a few days. If your ear starts to hurt, go to the doctor right away! :ill

Angela

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I'm here Monday doing homework as usual (which I should be doing now! :o ) if that's better for you. Hope you feel better. Be careful about the clogged ears though! I had a cold like that once and as soon as my ears clogged I got an ear infection which I've NEVER had! That then turned into a sinus infection and then an ear infection in the other ear. It was the worst cold I've ever had. Couldn't shake it for weeks and I don't usually get sick. Even when I do get sick, I can usually get rid of it in a few days. If your ear starts to hurt, go to the doctor right away! :ill

Angela

I will...I have a few Doctor's and two Pharmacists in the family, too bad they are all in NY! I did call and tell my cousin who own's a pharmacy to get me some baytril. :rof Now that our pusher is moving away we need to stock up! :krazy: I wouldn't mind coming tommorrow at all but at this point I can't go five minutes without sounding like I'm going to cough up a lung onto my keyboard. I did go out earlier and got that Life medicine you were talking about. What I wouldn't do for tylenol with codine right now....I took sudafed which is supposed to make you sleep at night, yet its close to 4am. On the flip side, the house is clean.

I just don't want to pass this along to you guys so I'm thinking Monday would be better.

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Hi Angela, would you be able to give a more detailed description of the sore on the stomach? Bottom sitting after an extended period can cause a wound/ulceration and in some cases, bacteria will enter via the wound. Is the sore getting bigger at all? Any redness? Also, is there any way you can gently place your hand under him/her so you can gently probe the belly with your fingers? It'd help to know whether the stomach is firm .... or soft and mushy :)

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I just looked at his stomach this morning and I guess the Melafix is doing its job. Fungus is almost completely gone and there are only 3 or 4 little red dots left. Stomach feels firm. Still bottom sits most of the time though. :(

Angela

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:) Good to hear that the Melafix is helping out,but continue to watch closely because if any bacteria entered that sore,Melafix won't be strong enough to handle it.
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Thanks Devs. I've also started feeding Medigold. Hopefully that will keep any internal problems at bay. I'll keep you updated on his progress. :)

Angela

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Just as an update. Hershey, the chocolate ranchu is doing better. He is swimming more and bottom sitting less. The breeder again offered to take him back and give me another one but even if he wasn't improving, I couldn't do it. This is the friendliest fish I've ever come across. Every time I go up to the tank, he is like a puppy when you walk through the door. He rushes up to the front of the tank and literally "wags" his tail. He even bites at your fingers through the glass like a puppy. What a ham! I'm so happy he is doing better! :) Sores and fungus on his stomach are gone, he eats like a pig and looks very healthy. Even his colour is getting nicer. He's chocolate with shiny coppery flecks. And a face like a Shar Pei! :D

Angela

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Thanks! He is a cutey! Now if I can just get a picture that isn't fuzzy, I'll post it. When you see his face, you'll know what I mean. Mind you, a video would convey his silliness much better! :D

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