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Lilly May Be Dying Of Chilodonella Too!


Guest Marigold's Mom

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Guest Marigold's Mom

I posted in the Obituaries that we lost Marigold this morning to chilodonella. :rip: I had never heard of it until last night when I noticed more symptoms and looked it up on my computer. She had EVERY one! I removed Marigold from the tank, did a 50% water change and cleaned all the ornaments and vacuumed the gravel. Lilly seemed to be doing fine swimming around. Then this afternoon, I noticed her staying closer to the top than usual (this was Marigold's first symptom) as well as rubbing against the filter intake. She was starting this yesterday when I treated the tank with malachite green. I thought I had caught her in time. When I saw this today, I again treated the tank with malachite green (since I had done a water change earlier) and took the charcoal out of my filter. Oh, I had also salted her tank after the water change as well. Is it too late for her? Is anyone familiar with this deadly parasite? How do they get it? Is there something else I can try? Thanks..... :(

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I am sorry to hear this.

While I have no knowledge on treating this disease, I will contact a member who has. HOpefully she can advise you of what to do. In the meantime can you post the answers to all the questions asked above. I am sure she will need them.

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It is very important to treat quickly when dealing with microscopic parasites. Salting the tank was a good idea. It will probably help alot. A medication that may help is quickcure. It can treat Chilodonella as well as many other parasites.

I hope someone who has actual experience with Chilodonella comes soon. (All my info is from research.)

Edit: I just realized that since the active ingredient in quickcure is malachite green, it will probably not have any better results.

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Guest Marigold's Mom

Test Results for the Following:

Ammonia Level? 0

Nitrite Level? 0.8

Nitrate level? 20

Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? 7.4

Ph Level out of the Tap? Only use spring water

Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 10gal January 5th

What is the name and size of the filter/s? Just the filter that came with the tank (just removed the extra 20-40 gal. filter since I lost marigold this morning.)

How often do you change the water and how much? 1/3 to 1/2 every day or so (to keep nitrites down)

How many fish in the tank and their size? only one now

What kind of water additives or conditioners? None

Any medications added to the tank? Salt, Malachite Green

Add any new fish to the tank? Lilly on February 6th

What do you feed your fish? Flakes, peas, freeze dried shrimp

Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt",

bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? They both had a touch of fin/tail rot a week or so ago, it cleared up with salt

Any unusual behavior like staying

at the bottom, not eating, ect..? Lilly is pacing back and forth in the tank almost constantly, rubbing on the filter intake, yawning occasionally and sometimes going up for air. She eats fine.

If I take lilly out and completely clean the tank and filter, what is a safe way to do it and still kill the parasite?

Should I leave the gravel out and go bare bottom?

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I would not remove the fish/clean tank completely as this will only destroy the bacteria cycle and the parasites would still be in the fish. Unless the water stats are very bad and the filter is too small, I would not remove the gravel either. The cycle is very important.

For now, just continue using salt and malachite green. I hope someone who knows more about this disease comes soon.

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:( I am very sorry that you lost Marigold,and I know that you would like definite answers as to why.However,be very careful when self- diagnosing,as alot of illness's and Parasites,and even poor water quality have many ,many of the same symptoms.

You use Spring water,and although I know others do,I'm not so sure that somehow essential vitamins/minerals/electrolytes,etc. aren't missing.

You do water changes,but not nearly enough because water is still reading very poorly with the Nitrite #'s.Nitrites can and will kill a fish over time.It doesn?t act like ammonia and burn the gills. Instead, nitrites travel through the blood system, poisoning the fish and turning the blood brown instead of red. Nitrites can be more deadly than ammonia simply because it stays with the fish longer and can do more permanent harm. Your fish was in a very weakened state when you chose to add the malachite green. Malachite green is a very strong drug,and small fish have to be watched carefully when using it. One of Malachite green's ingredients is sodium chloride-the very same salt that you also added to the tank.How much was your salt total?How did you add it?Toxins will irritate fish,whether it be Nitrites,Meds,etc.Temperature plays a factor,the age and size of your fish,etc...

I think the point that I'm trying to make is that there were alot of factors working here,and Marigolds death could have been from a specific one, or combination of different things. I am not saying that she doesn't have a Parasite,I'm just saying that you have to take the correct steps to make a decision on the correct course of treatment,and the proper meds.

The first thing that you need to do,is change out enough water to get those readings at 0.25 or lower for your Nitrites.If the water quality is poor to begin with,chances of any meds working correctly are slim.

What make is the filter you are using and the size?

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I totally agree with Devs. I have battled chilo in my tank for over a year. I treated with a few different meds (including QuickCure and some other malachite green formula) and when nothing was working, I purchased a microscope so we (me and the wonderful moderators here) could treat specifically for the parasite that was in my tank, which turned out to to be chilo.

At this point, in your case I would first get the water quality issues under control. Like Devs said, many of the symptoms of chilo are the same as water issues. And fish yawn to clear their gills so an occasional yawn may not be cause for concern. If she is already weakened by poor water quality/high nitrites, you don't want to put meds in the tank. A lot of meds mess up the cycle (which you are still establishing) and/or are very hard on the fish.

I would do a few water changes to remove the malachite green and lower your nitrites. Keep a very close eye on the nitrites and do not let them rise above 0.25-0.5. If you can get a water conditioner like Prime it will help detoxify the nitrites that are present. (Also why are you using spring water for water changes? Is your tap water really bad?)

If your tank has been set up since Jan 5, you should be nearing the end of cycling the tank. Once the tank is cycled, if Lily is still showing symptoms of parasites/chilo I will be glad to guide you through a treatment or two and see if we can't get rid of it. :D

Also if you are able to heat your tank to about 78* it will help move the cycle along a little faster. If you do this, make sure you have an airstone as warmer water holds less oxygen.

I will keep my eye on your thread and help as much as I can!

(PS Just to let you know--I treated my fish for over 9 months and still have chilo in my tank. The good news is I have not lost any fish throughout all those treatments! Hang in there, ok?)

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Guest Marigold's Mom

Ok....here is where I am so far. I did a huge water change this morning. Had to purchase more spring water (we use only spring water because the lady at our LFS asked where I lived and when I told her the name of our town, she said the water here was horrible. Chocked full of chemicals! She recommended spring water which is all I have been using since.) Anyway, after the water change, I checked the levels and they read Ammonia:0 Nitrites: between .5 and 1.0ppm Nitrates: 40 PH: 7.8 (they are used to a somewhat high ph) Lilly seems to be doing better today even before the water change. I wonder if the malachite green and salt did their jobs. I'll keep an eye on her but for now she seems to be swimming happily. Thanks everyone for all your help. I'll update tonight unless she gets worse between now and then. :thanks

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Had to purchase more spring water (we use only spring water because the lady at our LFS asked where I lived and when I told her the name of our town, she said the water here was horrible. Chocked full of chemicals! She recommended spring water which is all I have been using since.)

I think you should be able to contact your local water board/authority to request a report of the composition of the tap water in your area for free. If they have a website you might even be able to access the information online.

That way you can see if it is 'fish worthy' and might even save you the hassle and costs of spring water.

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I'm glad to hear that Lily is doing better. :)

I really don't want to come across like I'm harping on you or anything,but this problem always goes back to your water.Most people that use Spring Water,can't afford to keep up with the types of water changes that Goldfish require.Now I'm not saying this towards you at all,just a general comment.I wouldn't let one person tell me the water's horrible and go on that.Do you pay for water? Once a year,they normally send out an annual water report listing what exactly is done with your water.If you are lucky enough not tp pay for water,then I'm sure that you can request this information.There are also a few different water conditioners that they sell,to take out any heavy metals,Chlorines,Chloramines,etc. that make Drinking water very safe for your fish.

I would seriously consider going to regular Tap Water.

As for the Meds working and making Lily better,it's really hard to say,as most times Meds are quite ineffective when used in poor water quality. The Salt only helps with Nitrites to a certain point. It may just be that you're doing more frequent water changes and getting some of the Toxins out of the water,that's actually making Lily feel better.

How much water did you change out today?You stated a Huge water change,but as you can see,your Nitrites are reading much too high.Your Nitrate level also borders on the high side as most people have found that keeping Nitrates under 20ppms,is the safest levels for your fish.And actually,being that you are having these Nitrate readings,it sounds like your tank is allready cycled,and then the Nitrites should be reading 0--and nothing else is a safe number.

I really don't know what else to say for her illnessUnless water params are perfect,I can't be a 100% about what is actually bothering Lily. :unsure:

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Guest Marigold's Mom

Thanks Devs....I did about a 60% water change. Yes, buying spring water is becoming very expensive. I told my husband we should try the treated tap water after letting it sit overnight and he was worried to for fear it would kill her...so off I go to the store several times a week for several 2.5 gal. jugs at almost 2 dollars each!!! We can afford the spring water but it's wearing me out shopping for it constantyl....I was even changing the water at 1am one night. Yes, we pay for our water. Should I just purchase a new 5gal bucket and try it? Does letting it stand overnight make a difference if it has been treated? I have the tetra aquasafe. Is it good at removing harful chemicals? As far as the nitrate...I purchased a new tester today that is supposed to tell nitrates, nitrites, alkalinity & ph. It read near 40 after the water change where earlier (after the water change) my other nitrate tester read only 20....I am not sure why this is....maybe a faulty test strip? The ph earlier read 7.4 but on the strip read 7.8. Maybe I got a bad bottle and should go back to the other method with the different tests instead of one strip testing all....it just seemed easier.

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Guest Marigold's Mom

Ok Devs...in using the old testers instead of the new tester I just purchased....my readings are Nitrite .3mg, Nitrate 10ppm & PH 7.4. This is since the water change and after topping the tank off with the new spring water I had run out of. Does that sound good and any idea on how much longer before the tank should be fully cycled? It's been running since January 5th at a temp between 66 and 68 degrees. Thanks for all your help!

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I'm sorry to hear about Marigold. I'm just wondering and forgive me if I missed it, have you ever tested your water out of the tap? Are you able to get Prime dechlorinator? I'd be interested to know what your tap water readings are. I was told something similar about having poor water quality in the town I live in and low and behold I have perfect water straight out of the tap. As a precaution I still use prime anyway to decholorinate my water. I'm wondering if in the long run providing your water quality wasn't an issue if it would be cheaper/easier to use your tap water and prime to dose your tank.

Hope to hear that your little one is on the mend soon.

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Thanks Devs....I did about a 60% water change. Yes, buying spring water is becoming very expensive. I told my husband we should try the treated tap water after letting it sit overnight and he was worried to for fear it would kill her...so off I go to the store several times a week for several 2.5 gal. jugs at almost 2 dollars each!!! We can afford the spring water but it's wearing me out shopping for it constantyl....I was even changing the water at 1am one night. Yes, we pay for our water. Should I just purchase a new 5gal bucket and try it? Does letting it stand overnight make a difference if it has been treated? I have the tetra aquasafe. Is it good at removing harmful chemicals? As far as the nitrate...I purchased a new tester today that is supposed to tell nitrates, nitrites, alkalinity & ph. It read near 40 after the water change where earlier (after the water change) my other nitrate tester read only 20....I am not sure why this is....maybe a faulty test strip? The ph earlier read 7.4 but on the strip read 7.8. Maybe I got a bad bottle and should go back to the other method with the different tests instead of one strip testing all....it just seemed easier.

:unsure: This is one of those times when I'm actually hesitant to give an answer.We know that Lily is not well.Based on the Nitrites alone,we know that water quality has alot to do with it.Unfortunately,we haven't been able to get the water quality- perfect, to see if that's all the problems that Lily is having. Personally,I would go for the tap water and a bottle of Prime.As I see it,The fish have not been able to have safe quality of water during this whole cycling process,as you can only change out as much water as you buy.Fish dealing with constant Nitrites will a) either suffer long term effects,or b) up and die.so in truth,something has to change here.Whether that means buying twice the amount of Spring Water that you're purchasing now,or using tap water that comes plentiful,is up to you. If you changed water to tap tomorrow and Lily died,would you blame it on the tap water????That's the thing..It could happen,but it could be totally coincidental,as Lily has been suffering from Nitrites for well over a month now. This is a decision that you must think over and decide for yourself,so that you feel comfortable with it.

As I said earlier,you've been reading Nitrates for a while now,so I personally would consider your tank cycled.That being the case,your ammonia and Nitrites must read 0,and your Nitrates 40 ppms or better yet,under 20 ppms to be totally safe. That means alot more water changes-whether it be spring or tap water.Until we get this under control,we really have no clue if Lily is indeed suffering from anything else.

All I can tell you is that Nitrites are bad,and that the longer they live with them,the bigger problems that arrise.

If you use a good conditioner,it's not necessary to leave the water stand overnight,although some people with smaller tanks ,still prefer to do that. From what I could see,Aquasafe says that it eliminates chlorine and binds up heavy metals,but it doesn't say anything about Chloramines. You want to purchase something that says"Eliminates Chlorine/Chloramine/Heavy Metals

Prime is an Excellent Conditioner,a bit more money but it lasts a very long time.It removes Chlorine/Chloramine/Heavy metals.It also helps to detoxify Nitrates and Nitrites. Amquel plus is another that does the same.

What was the type/brand of your old Test kit? Was it expired on the date? Any time that you test water,if you just did a water change,then wait about an hour or so before testing it again. While test strips are super convenient,they are not always the most accurate to go by. Often,your best bet is to go with a Master Test Kit like Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Drop Test kit In the long run,it's much cheaper than the strips,and much more accurate,and if you search around,you can usually find it at a good price. :)

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Guest Marigold's Mom

Thanks Devs...I really appreciate all your help. I will check around here to see if I can find the Prime. If not, I'll purchase it online if I have to. As far as Lilly, she's dong great! She's eating, swimming and getting excited when I get close to her tank. Thanks again :hug

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