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Bowls


Sushi67

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I have a friend named Ami who moved to Japan about 5 years ago and we keep in touch mainly through letters so that we can send each other pictures and stickers. Well, I told all about my goldfish and sent her a picture of my tank. She wrote back saying that in Japan it is a common practice to buy vases or bowls to house 1-2 adult goldfish. She has a clear tub that is about 5 inches high. Its a circle vase. She keeps a gorgeous black ranchu and a red lionhead in it. The thing is that the bowl is cleaned everyday to make sure there is no left over food or poo. There are no rocks or decor in it. She said it is so that people's eyes are drawn only to the fish. She said they use to have a really big pot in the garden and it had 2 bubble eyes but the pot broke and the fish died before they saw it.

I'm not going to argue with her because she has had those fish for 3 years(longer than I've had my own goldies) and they look extremely healthy and beautiful.

What do you think about this? To me it sounds absolutely possible if the bowl was kept clean and if the fish were already adults.

I would love to share the picture she sent but I don't have a scanner. I can try to take a picture of the picture for you though.

EDIT: I'm not talking about the larger types of goldfish. I'm talking about the kind that were bred to be viewed from the top and are normally a bit smaller. Like bubble eyes, celestial, ranchu, lionhead....etc.

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Guest LilRubyQueen

Lol I must think like they do in Japan; had a bowl like that (maybe inches bigger) before I got my tank and my fish lived for months. Frequent cleanings never really bothered me neither.

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Not only will they not thrive, they wont' grow or live to full potential.

As you said she may be able to keep them "alive" but that will be the extent of it. They won't grow past a couple inches, not to their 10+ inches if in a good environment. Not to mention the body is compensating for it's environment which will shorten the fish's life.

It is sad that it is exceptable, but to say healthy..........no.

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As you said she may be able to keep them "alive" but that will be the extent of it. They won't grow past a couple inches, not to their 10+ inches if in a good environment. Not to mention the body is compensating for it's environment which will shorten the fish's life.

Thats why they only have adult fish in the bowl. They are already full grown.

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Isnt it always the way, I spend a fortune on abiding by the 'rules' etc... yet know quite a few people who have had healthier goldies, for longer than ive managed to keep my own alive, in conditions that were significantly less than perfect by the 10 gallon rule standards.

Im not saying that the 10 gallon rule is incorrect just that it isnt set in stone either.

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As you said she may be able to keep them "alive" but that will be the extent of it. They won't grow past a couple inches, not to their 10+ inches if in a good environment. Not to mention the body is compensating for it's environment which will shorten the fish's life.

Thats why they only have adult fish in the bowl. They are already full grown.

The reason they stop growing is because if they get much bigger, it will be overcrowded. Putting an adult fish in a container that is smaller than what the fish grew to fit in is a bad idea.

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As you said she may be able to keep them "alive" but that will be the extent of it. They won't grow past a couple inches, not to their 10+ inches if in a good environment. Not to mention the body is compensating for it's environment which will shorten the fish's life.

Thats why they only have adult fish in the bowl. They are already full grown.

Actually they can't be fully grown. Depending on the breed of the fish, 2 full sized gf (orandas, ryukins....etc) are not going to fit into a "10 gal" bowl type anything. It is too tight a space.

How big is your friend's fish and what type are they?

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Im not saying that the 10 gallon rule is incorrect just that it isnt set in stone either.

I dont think 10 g is good for any goldie once it reaches a certain size but I think an exception can be made when the tank size gets larger. For example, I have 5 fish in a 40 gallon right now. Its not 10g per fish but they have a lot of room for their size.

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As you said she may be able to keep them "alive" but that will be the extent of it. They won't grow past a couple inches, not to their 10+ inches if in a good environment. Not to mention the body is compensating for it's environment which will shorten the fish's life.

Thats why they only have adult fish in the bowl. They are already full grown.

Actually they can't be fully grown. Depending on the breed of the fish, 2 full sized gf (orandas, ryukins....etc) are not going to fit into a "10 gal" bowl type anything. It is too tight a space.

How big is your friend's fish and what type are they?

Black ranchu and red lionhead. They are 5-6 inches each. She boguht them from a older woman who was going to go live with her son and couldn't take the fish. Her letter says they were already adults, and that what I would believe is they are 5-6 inches.

What about genetics? Some fish have genes that make them grow large while other stay small. My peralscale stop growing once he reached 5 inches. However, my orandas continue to grow and my largest is about 7 inches.

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Genetics will definitely affect the growth rate of fish, but very few commercial breeders will try to make "dwarf" goldfish (which I think would be very difficult to do).

I agree with the sentiment that these fish are living okay, but not to their full potential. I'm glad to hear that your friend is doing daily cleanings. I would be worried that people would see this and not bother to clean, thinking that the fish somehow live their lives waste-free.

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I do think it is admirable that your friend is trying very hard to keep their water as clean as possible. But I am still afraid that it isn't the best environment for them.

That said we could go on and on with this debate. While there are exceptions to every rule or guideline, for any expert or serious hobbiest to agree that it is ok to continue to house gf in this manner would not be right.

I do hope your friend keeps the fish a very long time and that they don't become ill, but as for their full adulthood, I would have to say they may be adults but they are still stunted. ;)

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Genetics will definitely affect the growth rate of fish, but very few commercial breeders will try to make "dwarf" goldfish (which I think would be very difficult to do).

I agree with the sentiment that these fish are living okay, but not to their full potential. I'm glad to hear that your friend is doing daily cleanings. I would be worried that people would see this and not bother to clean, thinking that the fish somehow live their lives waste-free.

Hmmm, I have a theory that people believe anything that resembles a bowl is bad because of how the fish is pictured in the US. Lots of people in the US do just what you said, expect that fish don't produce poo and only have 3 second memory. Cultural difference could play a big part in how they think fish should be kept. I've seen picture of fish stores in Japan where fish are just stuck in bags and hung on a wall with a price written on the bag, the lucky one get jammed into a tank with 50 other fish. I've also seen goldfish in tubs and next to the tub is a net and bags, you scoop up the ones you want and then go pay. The thing is, that the fish always look healthy and pretty. So would you rather have the fish stuck in a bag with water and hung on a wall or jammed in a tank where it might contract a disease from other fish. Its all comes down to individual opinions.

Also, I agree with glitterfish about how she uses the 10 gallon rule. Once you have a large tank you could maybe go over one extra fish, because there is more room, but this could only work with people who are prepared to make sure that the one extra fish goes "unnoticed" i.e. up the water changes and strong filtration. ;)

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I guess my thoughts on this,

If you want ur fish to grow to there potential then go with more room more water, if u feel that your goldfish don't need the room, well then dont but i also don't like it when people come on and say there fish is sick and ask them what the room and filter, water conditions are and they wont tell or they say its okay.

Fish in Japan r sold in the hundreds a day, there tanks are filled to the brim with fish, because most people keep them in bowls and us them as objects in the home and not as pets......

Im not going to debate this whole 10 gal thing, its a suggestion and a general guide line so that fish don't wind up dead or sick.When i pick a fish, i pick it for life... As in the case of my Pharoh who is now 8 years old...and got sick just a few days ago because i was sick and couldn't get to his filters, i was very sick to my stomach because i did it to him.....he is my pet and part of my family...

so enclosing....fish are pets and needed to be treated as such.

thanks for listing I'm out of this conversation

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Whoops, forgot to include that my opinion was that in the US people picture goldfish bowls as those little 1 gallon fish bowls and that maybe other people consider bowls as 10 gallon pots? Hmmm, if you had a huge bowl that could hold 10 gallons would it still be called a bowl or a pot or vase or something else? A big bowl? lol.

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well if the bowl is big enough I'd guess it would be fine.. especially with daily cleanings.

I see your point sushi. Those fish are probably luckier than most others.. but then it's nice to give them more stimulation, other than a bare tank, but then lots of people here keep fish in bare tanks.

hmm, as long as the fish are healthy and have a fair amout of room to swim.. I don't see a problem with it.

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I agree with Koko and Sushi on the matter. People view fish (or any other animal) as either a pet or an object. You either keep it b/c it's "pretty-looking" or you keep it b/c it's a companion.

:( I just don't understand people who keep them in dirty bowls. I mean, they're not pretty at all! They're gross and stinky.

Since joining Koko's I've decided to use this advice with anyone looking into a pet: Get it if you're going to take care of it. If you're not going to, then don't even bother thinking of owning one. It's not worth the owner's or the pet's inconvenience and suffering.

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I'm under the impression that it is not uncommon for goldfish to be kept in unfiltered containers in the far east. Instead, they rely on frequent water changes to maintain good water conditions. I once found a web site that showed how Tasakins were raised. They get moved from one bowl to another to keep their water fresh as they do better in still water.

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I'm under the impression that it is not uncommon for goldfish to be kept in unfiltered containers in the far east. Instead, they rely on frequent water changes to maintain good water conditions. I once found a web site that showed how Tasakins were raised. They get moved from one bowl to another to keep their water fresh as they do better in still water.

In the case of tosakins, it's very important to keep them in still water otherwise you lose the formation of the tailfins -- the most important part of the tosakin.

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