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Fry Are Dying


daryl

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So, my first batch of fry which are 24 days old today started dying one by one a few days ago.

They have been growing extraordinarily well the past month. I had about 100, culled to about 60 - and finally down to about 48. Those 48 have been dying one by one every morning and afternoon. I now have only about 30 left!

They are living in a 25 gallon tank.

They have a power filter set in a seasoned sponge filter (the one they were started with) that runs though a filter box of seasoned media, with an overflow. The current is only "strong" in one place - but the fish do not seem bothered by it. They all swim well around the tank and can hover well to nibble off the sponge, etc.

Ammonia - in the past it occasionally was 0.25 during days when I was working out of the house. It was never more thna a "slightly less than .25 that I have ever discovered. Recently, it has been a solid zero, since the addition of the power filter.

Nitrite =- zero

Nitrate - hovers around 10

pH - 8.2

gH - 80

Kh - 120

Food - Frozen daphnia in the morning, ground dry food or HikariFirstBites at noon, and daphia or ground spirilana in the evening. All the fish are pooping heavily - the poop is the color of the food. It is, perhaps a bit longer than I would like to see - long little "worms" of poop, but it is of good color and consistancy. I was concerned about perhaps constipation, so I added the spirilana....

The babies are about 3/4 inch long, and about 1/2 in deep in the belly. It does not matter what baby it is - this morning's casualty was one of the best "green" ones! :cry1 I have scraped/scoped, micron filtered the water to observe, etc. and have found nothing. That is not unusual. My ability to see in a microscope is amazingly poor!

The media came from an existing tank. Not the parents tank. As far as I can tell, the tank was a "clean" one. But it is possible that there is something there that does not bother an adult and kills a fry.....

HELP! Can I treat? Do fry handle treatments? What would anyoe suggest? If I had to guess, I would say it was some bacteria, perhaps. But the dead fry look fine. The gills are normal color, the fish is fat. The dead ones give no sign of problems - just stop swimming, swirl in the current and then go belly up within an hour or so. There is no sign of fin rot, whitespot, etc..... They look like perfect little fish - except that they are dead.

CAn fry handle Prazi? Maracyn?

????????????????????????????????

:krazy::krazy::krazy::krazy:

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25 g is almost 100 litres, which is enough IMO. I'd sit back and see what will happen in the next few days. Those dead fries might look ok on the outside, but maybe "bad" on the inside?

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Carol, I've done a fair bit of reading on this subject especially when I was losing up to 6 fry a day and from the information I could gather, it seems to be common across the board. I don't think your guys have any infection ...or parasites but there's always a chance they have some internal defect that's resulting in this enforced cull.

I personally wouldn't use meds on them at this stage especially if nature is the culprit behind their demise but maybe transferring them to a bigger tub would help them?

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Carol,oddly enough,the fry that died on their own,were some of my biggest and healthiest fry.It seemed like I would do a water change then one would die.It seemed like I would feed them Brine Shrimp,and one would die.All were plump and perfect looking,so I actually worried about the water changes and the Shrimp and went back to more Hikari first bites and fine Pro-Gold. I did not have too many babies to begin with,so these were very significant losses to me. I truly do not know what to say.I had to tell myself that it was just meant to be,so that I could continue to do the right things like the water changes,etc. when needed,and not be afraid.

I remember that Jen went through this too with her fry.I guess that I do not have an answer for you here,only a hug and to say that you seem to be doing everything humanly possible for them. :heart

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:unsure: I don't know,I would think that 25 gal. would be enough room for the size that they are now.Believe it or not,I've always had better luck in smaller tanks,although plenty of fry,they were not actually goldfish -maybe goldfish would be different. :hmm
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From all the reading I have done, antibiotics are used in raising fry - both goldfish and food fish. But that is only on the commercial level. I REALLY do not want to get into that with these guys at this age! That is starting a REALLY bad precendent in my opinion. If I use it now, I will not have it later for when it may "count" more.....

I guess if the fry are weak enough through one reason or another that they cannot survive given all that I am giving them, then they would either not survive to adulthood and/or they would always be the frustratingly sickly ones that never thrive.

I guess I just have to "suck it up" and wait and see.....

:cry1

I just fished out 2 more. :cry1

Oh, well, I counted. There are 29 left in there..... About 5 look very nice and the rest are..... OK.

Sigh.

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25 gallons is enormous for 30! For some reason I thought there were hundreds - possibly due to my mind being on the breeding thread.

I wish I had a spare 25 gal when mine were small - this would be an idea size <she shuts up now> :D

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ACtually, your idea of "tub to tub" for a few days sounds like a good one. I may see if it helps - take a control group of fry and give it a try.....

I will let everyone know what, if anything, happens.....

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From all the reading I have done, antibiotics are used in raising fry - both goldfish and food fish. But that is only on the commercial level. I REALLY do not want to get into that with these guys at this age! That is starting a REALLY bad precendent in my opinion. If I use it now, I will not have it later for when it may "count" more.....

I guess if the fry are weak enough through one reason or another that they cannot survive given all that I am giving them, then they would either not survive to adulthood and/or they would always be the frustratingly sickly ones that never thrive.

I guess I just have to "suck it up" and wait and see.....

:cry1

I just fished out 2 more. :cry1

Oh, well, I counted. There are 29 left in there..... About 5 look very nice and the rest are..... OK.

Sigh.

It's devastating when it happens and I remember getting frustrated with myself for not being able to resolve it. I started off with just on 60 and ended up with 11 - which is a high rate of loss and I can still only guess as to the possible causes.

My tub was quite deep and based on the items I've since read, there's a possibility this may have attributed to the high mortality rate - although i'm not sure on the validity of this. Do you have your tank fully filled?

What a great idea! Testing a couple of different methods could give some interesting results. Would you split into 2 groups 50/50? Or just run a smaller control group?

<sigh> All in all I think Sharon's right, the survivors will no doubt be strong and healthy and hopefully the loss rate will drop off soon.

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I kept them in very shallow water for several weeks ( 6 inches), and then at about 21 days, slowly added a bit more water at each water change until the tank is, mostly, full now. It is a deep tank - a 20 gallon footprint with the 5 on top.It was a "found" tank - and was never intended to be a "fry tank"..... it just happened. These are my first fry ever. Perhaps it is too deep - but they swim happily all over the tank - up, down, back and forth, so it does not seem as if there is a problem with the depth.... (though come to think of it - the deaths did not start until after the water level went up..... but that was also when I added the extra filtration that could have introduced disease..... :hmm )

I have decided to split the group up into 2 groups with approximately 15 per group. One will remain in the original 25 gallon tank and one will go into the tub to tub rotation. They will be as randomly selected as possible - including pinkies and green ones in each group. There is one substantially smaller one - about 1/2 the size of the others, but he has hit a growth spurt recently and is doing well, so he is included. All the others are close in size to each other. I, of course, like the green ones - the ones that should develop color. There is one interesting one with "pinkie" eyes, but a green/pink mottled body, and one very very intense black one that I am particularly facinated by, but, in general they are interchangable.

I have to set up some sort of aeration in the tubs..... and then it will be a "go".....

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Four more were dead this morning, including the "black" one. :cry1 (3 from the tub and one from the tank)

I am seriously thinking that there is a bacterial infection in there, somewhere.

:cry1

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I am sorry to hear that. It's hard getting attached to them and then losing them. I have never heard of any private individual raising all the eggs though. I thought Jen did so well getting 11 - most times it seems people get 2 or 3 in the end :( I don't know why. I'll just send a hug :hug

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Do you think that crushed up medigold and metromed would help? This might get rid of whatever could be bothering them intenally. I've only raised fry from about a half inch long (30 of them) but when a couple of them died I tried this and didn't lose anymore. (except one that got stuck in a filter intake because of my lack of foresight. :( )

Angela

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Well, last year I raised fry indoors, and they kept dieing, but I found out it was ammonia in the water (it wasn't cycled). Only 6 survived, can't believe they'll be 2 years this summer... But the new batch I found out in pond, they are 18 and I haven't lost anyone of them. But of course they were hundreds from the beginning, I guess the weakest were eaten by Angus and Mac.

The pond fry have nearly outgrown their "indoor" siblings, and this tells me the best and most nutritious place to raise fry is in the pond, despite all dangers like big fish or predators.

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I lost 4 more the other day and decided that it was time to get more aggressive.

I have split the fish into two groups - one is in a tub to tub situation with a fully filtered volume of water, but no cycle. The water is kept clean through 100% cleanings twice a day.

The second group is still in the original 25 gallon tank with a power filter (intake covered by a seasoned sponge) and plenty of media.

I treated the second group to a FuranII bath yesterday. Today there was only one dead one - one from the tubs, not the tank. And it was corkscrew swimming last night - so already had problems. I am going to clean and give the second treatment today.

I do not know if this is going to work or not, but I am giving it a try. Anything is better than letting them die, one by one without trying to save them somehow. There are some little ones in there with a whole lotta potential and I would like to see what they develop into.

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