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Guest Juliosmom

Black Moor With Bad Fin

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Guest Juliosmom

Hello,

My little black moor has not been well for a few weeks. He is a little on the thin side, but completely interested in eating and I hand feed him soaked pellets. When I got him, he had a few scales missing on his side and after a few days developed some 'white' on his abdomen and a little patch on his fin. I treated with Fungus Eliminator (followed directions). I do partial water changes on his tank twice a week ( I have 4 small GF in a 10 gallon ... I know... too small but hubby won't let me purchase another tank so I do my best with what I have). The other three fish are fine. No signs of disease, busy, healthy little piglets. Now, Googly, as we fondly call him, has a bum front fin ... it has what seems to be a tear in it. His tail is a little ragged as well, but it doesn't look like tail rot. My little oranda chased him for a couple of days and had his tail in his mouth so I think the fin and the tail may be due to injury?My ph is always between 7.8 and 8.2 I use half softened water and half city water with a water conditioner. I don't know my ammonia but I work hard to keep the tank clean. I do not have a hospital tank nor a second filter to set up a rubbermaid bin so I'm looking for suggestions to help this little guy heal?? I have not tried aquarium salt? Would this help heal the fins?

I know my limitations make this more difficult ... hubby is not a fish person and doesn't understand my commitment to my fish.

Thank you!

Tammy

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Guest Juliosmom

Fish001.jpg

I'm going to try to upload a photo; forgive me if it doesn't work!

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Guest Juliosmom

Fish002.jpg

Who knew taking pics of fish was so hard??? I think, between these two photos, you can see 1. the 'film' he has on his body and 2. the tattered appearance of his fins?

I hope this helps!

Tammy

Edited by Juliosmom

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Hi Tammy, cute fish. Sorry to hear he is having problems.

Unfortunately this is most likely caused by poor water quality. As you know you are overstocked. And water quality is the single most important thing to the fish.

How often are you changing the water? And how much?

With being as overstocked as you are, I really don't know how you can keep a cycle going safely in it.

In order to help the fish you are in desperate need of testing that water. You have to know what you are dealing with before you can "deal" with it. Does that make sense?

To offer any help, other than do a large water change asap and continue to do them, would be dangerous without knowing what the water is doing.

Hopefully you can get things tested and post back so we can help you help them.

Since another tank is out of the question could you get a large rubbermaid tub? Use it as a tank?

Or give some of the fish back to the store??

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Guest Juliosmom

Hi Laurie,

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, all except one were given to me from someone who was going to flush them ... ergo why I am overstocked. Their tank broke and they were fed up with 'fish'. Googly is 'my' fish and we love him to bits.

I could probably manage a rubbermaid bin but have no filtering system for it.

I've been doing minimum 25% water changes at least twice a week; I usually try for every other day. Today I did 50% to try to get rid of the meds. My pH stays pretty steady at about 7.8 through 8.2.

I've had no luck finding a master test kit in my area, but am working on it. Will post to my freecycyle group to see if I can find another aquarium.

I'll try to get the params posted as soon as I can.

Thanks again,

Tammy

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Tammy, sounds like you have a big heart. We always seem to get stuck with pets huh? LOL.........I can relate.

Let's see, if you get a rubbermaid you will still need a filter system. So...........Maybe someone in your group can help there, or if you can even spare a small amount for a sponge filter from a "mart" store would work in a pinch. It doesn't have to be a huge thing at this point, anything is better than nothing.

Until then, at minimum I would be doing a 75% water change each day on the tank you have now.

Even that I can't say that would be enough, thru testing we could know but.........well you can only do what you can.

I would make a dedication to change 75% each day and feed very lightly until something can be done.

Have you tried Craig'slist online? Even freecycle, some places have that.

Good luck, Googles is sure cute, I would hate for you to lose your fish to have tried to save others.

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Guest Juliosmom

Hi Laurie,

Okay, FOUND a master test kit! Unfortunately, it was at a store that sells puppies and kittens which totally goes against my principles ..... however, got it!

My chemistry totally sucks, but here goes!

Ammonia - 0 (the test water remained clear) which indicated a 0 on my little colour chart

Nitrite level - very PINK ... hovering between 1.6 and 3.3 colours on the chart (already did another 50% water change and double dosed CYCLE in effort to lower).

Nitrate ... my kit does not test for this?

pH is between 7.8 and 8.0 (same as tap)

I have made a request on Freecycle and asked my brother if he still has his old 10 gallon kicking around. In the meantime, I'll scout around for a rubbermaid that hasn't had anything in it.

Thanks

Tammy

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Guest Juliosmom

I forgot to mention ... tank has been set up less than a month.

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Ok, it is good that your ammonia is 0. However your nitrites are way too high. This is most likely the culprit, or at least the biggest obstacle in your way.

You will need to get a nitrate kit, as this will be important to know. Since your tank is still cycling (are you familar with cycling?) knowing the nitrates is essential.

Back to the nitrites, since they are that high you will need to do 50% changes every hour (retesting an hour after your water change) until they are no higher than 0.25. Since you don't have a nitrate kit, this will hinder you a bit but it is better to get that nitrite down.

Hopefully that makes sense. I have a terrible headache and am heading to bed shortly.

Believe me I understand not going into places like that. We have a good fish store up here but they are always selling puppies now and don't take care of them so I won't go in there anymore.

Let me know how your changes go.

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Guest Juliosmom

Hi Laurie,

Thank you very much for all your support! I'm working on the water changes and hopefully, we'll get the nitrites down!

Good news ... I've found a home for one of my little adoptees. He'll be heading to a GF lover with a 100 gallon tank so I'll be down to three. Better but not best!

I'll be looking for a Nitrate kit tonight. Googly is still happily eating as are all others. He's bright and cheerful, so I'll take that as a good sign.

Hope your head feels better!

Tammy

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Guest Juliosmom

After a 50% water change this morning ...

Nitrite is between .8 and .3 so improving, thank goodness.

Ammonia is still at 0 and pH is still 7.8/8.0

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:) Hi Tammy,and welcome to our forum by the way. Googly is a little cutie pie,and I can definatitely see why you're so attatched to him. He does seem to be a bit sickly in the pic though,so I was thrilled to see that you got a test kit.Hopefully testing the water and continuing to change out water gets him looking better.Once you get those Nitrites down to a safe number,we should see alot more improvement. :) Sometimes though,fish can show up with a secondary infection,so keep an eye out for any odd behavior/change in looks etc. Is he pooing okay?Is it normal and brown,or white stringy? :rolleyes: May sound a bit strange,but "poo" can tell us alot. ;)

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Guest Juliosmom

Hi Sharon,

Yes, I read the "Poop" list :blink: I've had my kids and hubby watching all the fish so I can see their poop. They all think I'm absolutely, certifiably INSANE. This is confirmed with my trips back and forth to the bathroom carrying pails and muttering to myself about 'nitrites'. I volunteer with rescue dogs in my spare time and I can honestly say, this is as, if not more, time consuming than that!

I'm still battling the Nitrites. Still hovering between .3 and .8, although, the pink seems to be lightening up somewhat (could be my imagination at this point). My fish are looking fairly happy; including Googly. His poop is usually the colour of his food and fairly solid. Occassionaly a little white and sometimes hangs on for awhile. Everytime he sees me, he's at the top begging for food as I hand feed him. Poor guy can't figure out what I'm doing.

I will definitely keep an eye out for secondary infection. His whitish covering doesn't seem to be spreading but it's not improving either.

Off to do another water change.

Thanks

Tammy

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Guest Juliosmom

After 3 x 50% water changes this morning, we are at .3 Nitrates.

Other than taking fish out of the aquarium to aleviate my overcrowding, is there anything else I can do for Googly? On closer inspection, I think his tail is starting to look a little rattier. :ill

Thanks

Tammy

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Tammy I agree with our family and friends thinking we are nuts. LOL

It is wonderful you volunteer with rescue dogs, any specific breed? Or just shelters in your area? A wonderful way to spend your life.

Hang in with the changes, you are doing great. I love how you talk to yourself as you change out the water. Must be funny to watch you do it, thanks for that smile today.

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After 3 x 50% water changes this morning, we are at .3 Nitrates.

Other than taking fish out of the aquarium to aleviate my overcrowding, is there anything else I can do for Googly? On closer inspection, I think his tail is starting to look a little rattier. :ill

Thanks

Tammy

I love that the "Poo Check" is a family affair. :rofl

Sorry to say, :peeka keep going! more water changes. :rolleyes: He's starting to feel somewhat better because of the water changes,but you won't be able to "fix"it because the Nitrites need to be down to or around 0.25 for him to deal better,as the tank continues to cycle.As long as fish are dealing with a tank cycling and Nitrites,they're going to show symptoms,which is what the frayed fins are from.You can salt the tank to 0.1%. That should lessen the stress of the Nitrites,and maybe help keep those fins from fraying any more,but you'llhave to replace the salt every time you do a water change.Because your fish are small,watch for any odd behavior as sometime little goldies can not handle salt.

A Nitrate test will help too,as sometimes over crowded tanks tend to make the cycle faster.For all you know,you may have Nitrates,and if you did,that would mean your Ammonia and Nitrites should read nothing but 0. :o

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Guest Juliosmom

Thank you both for your time and suggestions!

I have salted the aquarium ... 1 tsp per gallon. All my fish looked quite shocked when I put it in ( i did dissolve it in aquarium water first) but they seem to be fine with it. I think the salting is as much for Googly as me ... despite the water changes, have been feeling somewhat helpless! :cry1

I'll continue water changes this afternoon after my daughter has her nap ... the tank is her nightlight in her bedroom.

BTW, I rescue Dachshunds (wienerdogs as some call them). Our website is www.wienerdogrescue.com

I have two of my own, Cleo and Julio (Hooey). Hooey is a puppymill dog, kept in a small cage for his entire life until he was rescued (approx 4-6 years, his age is unknown) used as a stud to breed puppies for pet stores. Ergo, why I loathe to purchase anything in a store that sells puppies and kittens because I know the misery the poor parents live with. We also have a rescued Siamese cat, Sox and 12 of our own fish and two rescued fish (the almost flushees). I have a hard time saying 'no' to critters!!

Thanks again and I'll let you know when my Nitrites are lower and I have my Nitrate kit!

Tammy

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Tammy Dachs are so much fun. My old boss who is a veterinarian has 3. They are his breed, he loves the long haired variety. Being dad is a vet you can suspect they are spoiled rotten. (good for them LOL)

That poor guy, all those years in a cage, I hate people sometimes. I believe there is a special kind of punishment for those who mistreat the animal kingdom.

Keep us posted.

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Guest Juliosmom

Whew!

Between .1 and .3 ... Definitely under .3 but not .1

FINALLY! :krazy:

So, now what do I do? LOL! I'm exhausted.

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Guest Juliosmom

My Nitrates are reading 20 and my nitrites are still between .1 and .3

Next step?

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Well,if you have Nitrates reading 20,then your tank souinds cycled to me---which means Ammonia and Nitrites should not read anything but 0 as that is the only safe #'s.The thing is though Tammy,as long as there's four fish in a ten gal.,you'll probably have to continue doing daily changes to get thos Nitrites to 0,and you don't want the Nitrates to go over 20 if possible. It's really going to be a continuing struggle I'm afraid so be prepared for big arm muscles and exhaustion some more. :D Continue on Dear,you're learning and your fish will love you for it. ;)

Is his physical appearance looking any better?The thing with Ammonia and Nitrites,is that they can wreak havoc at low number's and that's why it's so important not to have any readings for them.

Good luck and keep us posted.Hopefully you'll be able to get htose guys a bigger tank real soon. :)

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Guest Juliosmom

Hmmmm ... Well a tidbit of good news ... one fish has gone to a new home in a 100 gallon tank with some 8 year old Koi. I've been assured he's quite safe and won't become a snack :blink: I'm thinking 8 year old koi are kinda large? Anyhoo, my little tank is down to three wee fishies. I'm still looking for a home for one the other flushee. In the meantime, it's daily water changes.

My ammonia is still 0, Nitrate still 20 and Nitrite still up near .3 That's after a 50% this morning.

As for Googly, he's still swimming around, using his bum fin a little bit more ... the whitish film looks better, his fins look the same. My other black moor looks fabulous and hugely fat (feeding issues with Googly) and so does my Oranda. Their fins etc... look great. I will salt the tank again today because I do think that is making a difference with the film on his body and of course, will help with the nitrite problem. I'm still worried about how thin he is even though I'm hand feeding him twice a day. Maybe as he feels better, his feeding will improve.

Still harassing my hubby daily for a 44 gallon corner tank and stand.

Will keep you posted on Googly. Thanks again for the support and advice.

Tammy

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Tammy,

As Devs said this can be an uphill battle with being overstocked, but hang in there you can do it.

It disturbs me a bit to hear he is in with koi, especially in a tank. Koi don't so well in a tank, they need anywhere from 250 gals each to 1000, experts disagree within themselves. But they all agree koi become aggressive in a tank, they just don't have enough room.......and there is more than one in there?????

Sorry don't mean to upset you but it does sound off alarms to me. If it were a big pond then maybe it would be ok.

Keep on harassing him. Maybe even take him shopping. Back a couple years ago I took my husband to go "betta" shopping. We left with 2 6 inch blue orandas and a 46 gal bowfront tank!! LOL.............he couldn't walk away from them they were so pretty.

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Guest Juliosmom

Hi Laurie and Sharon,

Yeah, I was a little concerned about the koi as well, but Cindy has some smaller fancies in with the koi and has no problems. I'm not sure if she has a pond .. I forgot to ask. I'm crossing my fingers he will be okay!!

Googly is improving. Still has the white covering over quite a bit of his body BUT, his bum fin has healed ... holy fast Batman! His tail is also looking much better. He's able to chase his food a little better. Between the constant water changes and the salt, I think he's getting better. I'll try to get a decent picture to show you. All of this attention is making him into an extremely friendly little fellow!!

On the other hand, I checked my water this morning and here is what I got:

Ammonia - 0

Nitrites - .8

Nitrates - 50 :blink:

pH - holding steady at 8.0

So, my nitrates are up from 20 yesterday. Does that mean my tank isn't cycled or is there another reason? I was hoping, even though I'm still overstocked, that having one less fish would make some small improvement, but that doesn't seem to be the case :cry1

I did a 70% water change after I took the readings and retreated with 1tsp per gallon of water (doh!, originally wrote salt).

Thanks!

Tammy

Edited by Juliosmom

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Hi Tammy,

Have you tested the tap water for all params?

Your nitrates are now high as well as the nitrites. So more water changes are in order. (I know just what you wanted to hear).

Keep changing out the water until you get the nitrites 0 and the nitrates 10-20. Let us know what you find with the tap results.

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