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Black Spots On Ryukin


Guest Fab

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My daughter's red ryukin, Dennis, has black spots on him. He started out entirely orange but recently, maybe a week and a half ago, he got a single black spot on him at the base of his dorsal fin. I kept an eye on it and it didn't seem to go away or get bigger until a few days ago when it seems to have multiplied and now he has more black areas in the vicinity.

I have looked all around and I can find no diseases that fit this description.

Here's a picture from yesterday.

black_spots.jpg

The spots don't seem inflamed or ragged or anything. The pic is a little blurry, but basically it looks like the scales have turned from orange to black. I know goldfish sometimes change colors. I hope that's all this is. Hopefully someone knows. Also the tail end of his fins seem a little jagged, but I don't think it's anything out of the ordinary. You can see a little of it from the picture, but I don't know if his fins were always like that and I never noticed because I wasn't paying this close of attention or if it was because of whatever is causing the black spots.

For informational purposes, he's a year and a half old. He's in a tank with another ryukin and an apple snail. Both of his tank-mates are 6 months old and the other ryukin has no health issues or coloration changes at all. I thought of ammonia burns (which doesn't quite hold up because the other fish is in perfect shape) but I checked anyway and it was 0 ppm. I thought of variations in pH but it's between 7.6 and 7.8 (can't tell exactly because of the closeness of the colors on the card). The water quality seems to be within parameters. I change it frequently and make sure to test it and that it stays about 68? all year round. Even installed a chiller to keep the water cool in summer. My goal is for my four-year-old to take her fish with her when she goes to college, so needless to say I'm very careful and very concerned for poor Dennis.

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I would say that if you keep you water nice & clean, & test that the ammonia is not high....then he is just getting some color. Usually they go the other way....start with black & it goes away. From the picture (& that you said you have had him awhile....) I think he is not a Ryukin. Ryukins are very trangular in shape and by 1 1/2 years he would have that famous Ryukin hump. Maybe another picture would make it easier to tell but I kinda think he is a fantail or a common goldie. :)

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The thing about ammonia burns,is that the healing process(the showing of black) doesn't really begin until after the ammonia problems are under control. Some fish are more sensitive to the ammonia which may be why one showed it to be a problem while one didn't.

If I may ask,how big is the tank-how often/how much are water changes done,what type of filter are you using,and lastly,what are your actual param #'s?

I have moved this to the diagnosis section so that more people will see it to help you. :)

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Well, he and his little friend (you can see the other fish just behind him) were sitting on the bottom dozing when I took the picture. It was actually kinda cute, them both hanging out on the bottom napping. That's the only time they are in one place long enough for me to take a half decent picture. With my digital camera's shutter lag, half the time I end up getting a picture of part of a tail, or an eye, or sometimes just rocks and plants. They move so fast. They don't pose well. ;)

My water parameters are very good. No ammonia, no nitrite, and if my nitrate end up being 15 or 20 ppm by the time I change the water it's amazing. It's usually lower. My pH is around 7.6 to 7.8 and the temp is around 68? all the time, give or take a degree or two.

The tank is 10 gallons with a Penguin 100 gph filter. I know 10 gal. is a little low on the tank size for two fish, but they're still very small and I plan on upgrading once they start to get bigger. I change the water every other weekend.

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You might want to step up the water changes. Goldfish, especially commons/comets/shubunkins, do much of their growing when they're very young. They grow REALLY BIG and REALLY FAST, so it's possible they're going through some growth spurts which result in sudden rises in ammonia and by the time you test your water, your bacteria have grown to deal with it.

I would recommend changing your water 10-20% everyday for a week or so and see if there are any changes to his coloring.

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I stepped up the water changes, but it didn't seem to have any effect. In fact, the black spots continued to grow.

Now tonight, for the first time in two years, he's sitting on the bottom. Normally Dennis is all about supper time, but tonight he just sat there. I tapped on the glass enough to get him moving, but he went up about an inch then sank back to the bottom. He seems heavy (normally, if anything, he's a little overly buoyant). He just sits there lethargically.

Anyone have any other clues? I can't seem to pin down what he might have. I'm completely stumped and VERY worried.

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The black healing process doesn't always show all at once.Different parts of him were probably affected more than others.How much water changing have you done?Have you treated and matched temps accordingly?What are params right now?

Is he showing any other signs such as clamped fins/red streaks red spots/gasping/shredded fins,etc?

What foods,and how much do you feed them-how many times a day?Have you seen him poo at all?Look for that . As gross as it may sound,often times their poo can give you clues as to what's going on.

Did he try to eat at all? It' s possible during all of this that Dennis may have picked up a secondary infection,so keep your eyes out for any signs/symptoms. He may be just suffereing from a bit of constipation too,so you may want to fast him a day or two and then feed him a frozen thawed out pea.Cook it in a bit of water in the microwave,peel the shell casing off,and just squish it a bit to soften it up for him.

At this point,it's really hard to say whats going on,until we see more signs.It may be just his way of dealing with what caused the black patches to begin with.You can also try salting the tank to 0.1% as an option.Sometimes a bit of aquarium salt will make them feel a bit better.You'd want to dose 1 tsp. for 10 gallons.If you decide to try that,just make sure that you dissolve the salt in a bit of tank water before adding it into your tank. :)

Keep us updated on any changes-good or bad so that we can continue to try and help Dennis.Good luck.

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I have changed 20% of the water three days now (that is three changes of 20% each). That's after my change this last weekend of almost 50%. His water parameters are the same as before.

He does have a clamped dorsal fin most of the time, though right this second it's straight up. The trailing edge of his fins are a little jagged, not bad, and I'm not sure if they've been that way for a while and I never noticed before the black spots came or not. I don't see any red streaks.

I feed them some regular soaked goldfish pellets, but I also feed them shelled peas probably four nights a week, and usually one night fast at some point during the week.

I haven't seen him poop, but then again he didn't eat at all yesterday or today.

I just put in a pellet of food near where he was. He went nuts trying to get to it, but it's like he can't swim well enough to get the pellet. He ends up dragging along the bottom, trying to maneuver to get the food. I'm not sure if he got it or not. When he "swims" he gets up about an inch off the gravel then sinks back down again like a stone. It's like watching a bird with a broken wing try to fly.

I just put in some Furan-2. The guy at the pet shop recommended we try it.

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Well, Dennis has taken a turn for the very bad. I wish I knew what it was that was causing this. He began bottom sitting a couple days ago. Then it turned into not even sitting but laying on the bottom. Listless, able to swim a little but no desire to it seems. He stopped eating and he even got "crooked". That is, his body bends to the left. No visible sign of anything wrong with him except the black spots, which seems to have become a little lighter and not spread any further, but of course he's in bad shape.

What should I do at this point? I don't want to euthanize him if he has a chance of getting better, but as it stands now that doesn't look promising. I also don't want to not euthanize him if he's in pain, but how can I tell? I'm really conflicted and confused, and on top of all of this very sad.

I would blame myself more in this, you know, saying I should have done something sooner, but not even knowing what it is that's causing this I don't know what to do now, let alone have been able to do something a week ago to prevent it. It's a mystery.

I guess I'm looking for any help I can get at this point.

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if he cant really get of the bottom, it might(dont take this for sure because i could be wrong) be swimbladder disorder.

What are your exsact water perams, the readings?

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if he cant really get of the bottom, it might(dont take this for sure because i could be wrong) be swimbladder disorder.

What are your exsact water perams, the readings?

Well, with all his other symptoms he might have had a swimbladder problem also, but that wasn't the whole thing.

The point is moot now anyway. Poor Dennis didn't make it through the night. We'll miss him, but at least his ordeal is over.

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I was very sorry to read of the loss of your fish, Dennis. May the memories of your precious pet soften the sadness in your heart. It's hard to get through the pain of losing a friend, may you find comfort in knowing that others understand. We know how you're feeling, and hope that the memories of your fish last forever.

Rest in Peace Dennis.

Dana.

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I am sorry to hear about Dennis, Fab... :( How is the other fish doing at this point - still bottom sitting?

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No, the othe fish, Check, is as happy and healthy as can be. I have kept a very close eye on him since Dennis got sick, to see if the same thing would happen to Check, but he's avoided whatever it was entirely so far. I hope whatever it was is gone from the water. I wish I just knew what it could have been. If, Heaven forbid, I saw a black spot on Check, as it stands now all I could do is sit and watch the same thing happen to him. Not knowing is a problem.

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