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Sick Black Moor


rwersted

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Hello, I am new here. I have a Small Black Moor that has a white patch on the left side of his back. I have had him 12 days and I thought I noticed it 3 days ago. It was more noticable 1 day ago and I was thinking maybe velvet. I just noticed a small white patch on the other side of his back also.

Water quality:

Ammonia- 0.25 but since today 0

Nitrite-0

Nitrate-5.0

PH-7.6

PH out of tap-6.0

GH-12

29 gallon running for 2 weeks

Whisper 40 and Whisper 20, bubble disk with whisper 40 pump

I've been changing the water daily right now to get the ammonia to 0

All fish are new and added 1-2 days apart, 3 Fish, 1 sm Black Moor, 1 sm Ryukin, 1 med Oranda, since yesterday the moor is isolated in a 5 gallon eclipse (hosp tank 0 ammonia/nitrite 5.0 nitrate) Other fish show no symptoms.

I was using stress coat and stress zyme, but switched yesterday to prime, aquarium salt

I added quick cure to hosp tank that he is in.

They eat pro-gold and I have medi-gold on hand, all fish are eating well 1 time a day( for now till I get the ammonia under control) and I don't notice any strange behavior. I'm new to goldfish so I don't exactly know normal behavior. He seems to be swimming around. I don't think he is as active as he was in the bigger tank but he swims around.

I took pics of him but don't know how to attach them.

Any advice would be appreciated, I dont' want to lose him, Rachel

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:) Hi Rachel and Welcome to the group! Do you have a photobucket account? Its free and you can upload your photos there and then post them here. Its very easy to do. A photo will be helpful!
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:) Hi Rachel,and welcome to Koko's.

Your tank's only been up for two weeks,so chances are definately that you have a water quality issue going on.

I'm also concerned about the huge ph difference in your tank and your tap, :unsure: What are you doing to get that level reading at 7.8? The thing is that the Moor's white patches could be from water quality-whether it be ammonia/ph crash,etc.It also could be a fungus left from Parasites,but at this point,I'd deal with the water and see what that does first.

As for the Quick Cure, you should never treat with any sorts of Meds unless you know what's causing the problem to begin with,as it could only make things worse.

Do you see any cloudiness in the Moor's eyes at all?

As for the Prime,it really helps.Can you tell me how much salt you added,and how you added it?

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Yes I agree I messed up with establishing the tank. I know that is going to complicate things. I'm sorry I wrote the ph wrong, it is 6.4 out of tap. I way trying to type fast since I have been meaning to get this out but haven't. The ph changes to 7.8 when I add the water conditioner. I don't do anything special. The moors eyes look clear. The salt I added per directions, 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons. I just added it to the tank. I replace it when I change the water.

Right now the Moor is in a hosp tank that was set up prior to my big tank with no ammonia. Do you think I should change the water since it has medication in it. There are no other fish that tank.

Thank you, Rachel

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Rachel, I'm not sure I understand about the ph. When you add the conditioner it changes???? What conditioner is doing this?

Ph problems are huge with fish this along with the ammonia issue could be what is the problem. So let's focus on those for the moment.

Is there any ammonia in the tap?

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I know the ph thing is weird. But I did it twice to make sure. I just figured the chemical additives can change tyhe ph. I have considered the test solution has gone bad so I might get a new one today. Just for kicks I tested the water in the bathroom and the ph is 7.0. I have been using the kitchen sink. I wonder if I am getting some dish soap residue on the tube. I'm just guessing now. I just tested the ammonia and there is none out of the tap. Today he look s a little better and the patch is lighter, still there but lighter. I did a partial water change and added the filter carbon back since he had quick cure in his tank. I am hoping that tomorrow the patch will be even lighter. I am still addressing the ammonia issue in the 29 gallon. Every other day the ammonia shows at 0.25 and I do a partial water change to get rid of it. Oh and I am using Prime water conditioner but I originally used Stress Coat up until about 3 days ago. I was told Prime is better.

Thank you for your reply Laurie,

Rachel

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You are welcome.

Prime is better, for a water conditioner.

A water conditioner doesn't alter the ph, so unless you are adding something to adjust ph, your water is unstable. This is a major problem. You will need to test for GH (general hardness).

Another thing is set a glass of tap water out, test it and record the readings then leave it set out for 24 hours and retest, see what you get. Dont' add anything to it.

I am glad he is looking better. Hopefully you can get it all worked out.

I am concerned though about the ammonia. Since the nitrates are in place you shouldn't be seeing any ammonia in the tank. So a couple things could be happening. ARe you overfeeding?

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I am definatley not added anything to the water to adjust the ph. The GH is 12. As for the feeding I feed twice a day but it is always possible that I am overfeeding. I will go to 1 time a day till things get under control. Ok well I cleaned the sink out with hot water and made sure their was no soap or cleaners around it. When I tested the ph again it came out 7.4 which makes sense. I think maybe cleaning chemicals are around my sink and I have to be better about rinsing out the soap.

Rach

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I am not sure why the soap or chems in the sink matter with the water of the tank or the testing. Could you explain your thinking I that, just not sure what you mean?

I still recommend doing the test with the ph and the water overnight like I suggested.

Unstable ph can fall or rise depending on the gh of the water in your area.

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Yep, do as Laurie suggested and set a glass of tap water out overnight then test the pH. I think that your water is quite hard with a GH of 12 and what happens is once you add Prime it degasses, losing the chlorine, etc and carbon dioxide which then makes the pH rise. I bet the glass of tap water increases in pH too once it is left standing overnight, it's normal chemistry for hard water but the water conditioner speeds it up.

The cleaning chemicals sitting around your sink should not effect the pH unless you actually use them in your test tube or fish equipment, which is a big no-no.

As for your little moor, it could be anything; velvet, saddleback (columnaris) or something more harmless such as excess slime coat generated as the water quality varies. Is he eating and swimming well? Any changes in behaviour such as lethargy or erratic swimming?

Keep up the quick cure treatment and monitor his behaviour, keep in quarantine for a couple of weeks and if all seems well re-introduce him to the main tank.

Black moors are tricky because everything shows up against their matt black scales, a lot of times it's nothing major but it's best to be on the safe side.

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Ok well husband came home and dumped the water. He thought I had left it out. Unfortunatley I am in NY now for vacation so I had to leave the fish in his care. I will say that the patch is almost totally gone. At this point I have changed the water enough that the meds are gone but I am feeding him medi-gold. I can't remember if I wrote this or not but when I got him he had totally white long poop. Since starting the medi-gold he has nice short brown poop. (I can't believe I am posting about poop, you know you love your fish if you stare at it's poop) He looks almost 100% and actually looks fatter and healthier now then when I got him. I do think my bad water quality had a lot to do with it. I have been really good about checking the water daily and treating appropriately. I agree that that little guy shows everything with his color and I wonder if the other fish had this if I even noticed. I have leaned a lot regarding how inportant the water quality is to these guys.

I apoligize for not getting the little test done before I left but I will do it and post the results when I get back to KY. I think also now that I haev switched to the prime conditioner the water is better. Thanks Lorrie for that one.

I did decrease the feeding amount also and I think that will help with my ammonia problem. I hoep to post new pics when I get back of a nice healthy Moor. Thanks you for your advice! Rach

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:) I'm so glad hes looking better Rach! I know it will make your time away from him easier.

Its ok to talk about your goldfish poop here, as we all have. :heart We love our fish.

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I'm still in NY till New Years. My husband is on fish duty in KYand he said that he is eating good and that he can barely see the patch. He tested the ammonia in both tanks and said that they were both 0. I am hoping if all goes well to put him back in the big tank when I get back. I'm not sure if that is enough time in the hosp tank. It will be about 3 weeks.

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Thanks for the update. Wow, till New Year's huh? Hopefully it is a good trip.

I am glad to hear the fish is somewhat better, for now we'll move your thread into the non 911 section. Let us know though if something happens.

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:) Wow Rach,that's quite a time away.You must have a dedicated hubby to care for the fish that long-which is a good thing. ;) I'm glad to hear that your little Moor has been doing so much better.It is amazing though what some good clean water can do for an ailing fish though.I keep medicated food in the house at all times,for fish not quite right,or even just for fish that I've recently brought home.A great product for sure.

so is Hubby doing the whole shebang for you?Water changes etc? I bet the little guy is missing his mum though. :D

Continued luck with him.

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  • 3 weeks later...
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OK so I did the water test that Laurie P I think recommended. At night the pH was 7.0, 0 ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. In the morniing the pH was 7.6 and 0 ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Water hardness was the same both times. What do teh results mean?

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Ok, your ph rises after you put it in the tank. The best thing to do is sit out the water the night before you do a change so that the ph stabilizes. This way the ph doesn't bounce around.

It is still not good your tank is not cycled. During the time you have not posted have you seen any ammonia, nitrites or nitrates?

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When I got back 3 days ago I tested the water and the nitrites were .50, ammonia 0 and nitrates 5.0

I did a huge water change 2 days in a row since they had no water changes for eight days or so. Last night and today I tested the water and everything is 0-yeah. I will still keep testing every day or so since I know it may build up again. The fish all look great and are eating good etc... I plan to put a better filter on it also in the next couple of weeks-an Empereor 400. Right now it is on a 46 gallon that I have just started up till my Rena xP3 gets here. I know I am not out of the woods yet with establishing the tank but I think I am out of danger with my goldies health. I had no idea that cycling a tank was so strict with goldfish. I have always done it quicker with tropicals and I have learned an important lesson-PATIENCE.

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