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Blood Spots On Body, Red Streaks On Tail


Katalyst

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My water params are pristine....0 on all counts Ph 7.6

Tanks been running two months 39 gallons 2 sarassa's 2 Aquaclears 70 & 50

Up until two days ago I wasn't cycled, therefore I was doing daily water changes twice sometimes 3 times a day. Because I knew I was going to add meds and just recently cycled I just did a water change before adding medication to tank.

Bloody spots on body and on her underside as well as bloody streaks in tail. No unusual behavior, was eating except for the medicated food I just gave her, she wanted to eat but spit out the foods as soon as she tasted them. :(

My sarassa Sweet Pea has 2 orangish red spots in her throat region as well as what looks to be an orangish reddish line down her underside from her pelvic fin to her anal fin as well as red streaks at the beginning of her caudal fin and running through it. *sigh*

Everyone was finally doing so well and the tank finally cycled two days ago...After doing research I just came back in with Maracyn II, Jungle Anti-Bacteria Medicated fish food and melafix. I'm going to hold off on the melafix but it was suggested by the LFS.

Is this septicema? She has been eating just fine and acting pretty normal but because of the fact that I just cycled and have nitrates around 20 I just did a large water change 60% as I'm hoping the nitrates will stay low enough to allow me not to change their water for the duration of the treatment. Obviously if I need to I will but here's hoping. I'd love to be able to get Metro Meds but as of this morning my car died and as my work visa has yet to be approved, well you get it. Purchasing the maracyn and the other supplies was a huge stretch but not getting them was not an option.

I've added the double dose as per the Maracyn II directions: First day add 2 tablets per ten gallons therefore I added 8 tabs. (sorry for the anal retentiveness she is my little angel and I'm so upset I don't want to do anything wrong)

Ok whew! I added the Maracyn 2 tabs. I've covered up one side of the tank so she has a dark place to hide/rest. She's swimming actively at the moment and I think I'm more distressed then she is. I can't believe I didn't see it sooner. Because she is red and white all over the patches just blended in so I have no idea how long she's been this way. I feel like such a terrible owner... :( I tried to get photo's but she hid and when I tried to lift her out of the tank she became extremely stressed so I'm leaving her be for the moment.

Should I add salt and or the melafix? The LFS suggested salt for the stress... Unfortunately I really wanted to treat this with Maracyn Plus but none of the 3 LFS I went to had it. I'm praying this doesn't kill my cycle completely but that's a whole other battle.

Should I raise the temp of the tank? It's at 72 at the moment, I know about extra aeration. Is there anything else I can or should be doing for her? I'm sorry that this is such a long post, I'm just so very upset.

The anti bacterial food I was able to purchase has the active ingredients sodium solfathiazole 2.3% & nitrofurazone 0.13 I hope it'll help.

Thank you for putting up with all of my questions...I couldn't and wouldn't have even known what to do if it weren't for Koko's...

Kathleen

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Ok more reading and I forgot to add one thing and its too late to edit.

When I origionally rescued them she had red streaks in her fins, I treated it with Maracyn 1 & it seemed to clear up mostly. Because she has a white tail I also read that it may never clear up completely but her behavior is just great so I'm guessing its not septecemia and just a bacterial infection? :( I wasn't planning on having goldies and in the blink of an eye I ended up with 13 commons/comets. It has taken two months to cycle but I've done 2-3 water changes each and every day on all of my tanks to keep the ammonia at the lowest I possible could while using prime.

Also 2 days ago when my tank cycled I went from having 0 nitrates to 80 overnight...After 3 water changes the nitrates were at 10 and I've kept them under twenty since then. Could this also have had a hand?

Thanks again...

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Anyone? I know not everyone is here all of the time, but I'm really worried about her. She's my favorite :( I'm wondering if additing salt to the tank while treating with maracyn 2 would help. So far I haven't seen any poop to get an indication of what's going on. The other sarassa is gobbling all of the medicated food down like the pig that he is. She's eating a bit of it but its pretty obvious they don't like it too much. I'm thinking about stuffing the Jungle Anti Bacterial Food into some mushed up pea's just so she'll eat it.

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Got your pm and moved it here for you.

Can I ask how big, without tails, your fish are?

39 gallons doesnt sound very much for two sarasa comets, even with lots of filtration.

I know the stats are fine but bacterial diseases can build up slowly.

How long since putting them in this tank did the symptoms get worse?

We really need a pic if you can get it and if they look like bruises then yes its probably septiceamia.

For the time being do 50% water changes each day and re add the meds as you go. Im pretty sure you can use salt with maracyn so get that to .2%. It wont help with the disease but will help them breather easier.

Keep trying with the medicated food as this is really the best way to go IMO.

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Got your pm and moved it here for you.

Can I ask how big, without tails, your fish are?

39 gallons doesnt sound very much for two sarasa comets, even with lots of filtration.

I know the stats are fine but bacterial diseases can build up slowly.

How long since putting them in this tank did the symptoms get worse?

We really need a pic if you can get it and if they look like bruises then yes its probably septiceamia.

For the time being do 50% water changes each day and re add the meds as you go. Im pretty sure you can use salt with maracyn so get that to .2%. It wont help with the disease but will help them breather easier.

Keep trying with the medicated food as this is really the best way to go IMO.

My fish are about 3 and 5 inches without tails. They are going to be moved into a much larger tank in less then a week. My boyfriend is getting me a 220 gallon tank for Christmas where most of the fish will go. I called him at work where he is stuck at the moment and asked him if we could get the tank now and then explained the whole situation to him so hopefully within the next few days I can move the rest of the fish and put her in her own 55. I tried to find another one for her but when I filled it up it bowed very badly and didn't seem very sturdy. They have been in this tank for 2 months, when I rescued them there were 13 commons/comets crammed into a 15 gallon tank. 9 of them are fry less then 2 inches and 5 of them are 3-5 inches.

I know their tank situation is not ideal but this was sprung on me with absolutely no notice, if I didn't take them, they were going to be left in a 15 gallon tank and if the new owners of the house didn't want them well too bad for the fish. :( At the moment I have rubbermaid tubs all over the place and the best I could find were several rubberaid tubs no larger then 39 gallons. Because I have just moved to Ontario from the US my work visa hasn't come through yet and at the moment money is pretty tight. I only was able to get the boyfriend to agree to the large tank since it was his mom who basically called me knowing my love of animals to tell us how she was leaving her pond fish for the next owners to deal with in the 15 gallon tank that I mentioned, no food, no filtration. (Don't get me started on that topic) So there I was driving 5 hours to pick up goldfish that I had no idea how to care for, all I knew was that I couldn't let them die. And from there I fell head over heels for them.

I put the two sarassa's together as they are the smaller more gentle fish & they were both being pushed around by the males in the other tank and she's stressed out enough as it is. I'm going to take some photo's of her either later this evening (camera is dead and I have to wait for my boyfriend to get home to dig out the charger for me) or in the morning.

They don't look like bruises, they look orange/redding'ish splotches.

Gosh I'm sorry for yammering on like an idiot. I truly am trying to do the best thing for them. I did attempt to find homes for some of them but was told by the LFS they'd be sold as feeder fish. And since the bigger tank will be in place soon I'll be able to put her in a much larger place very soon.

Thanks Sandy for reading all of this, you must be a very patient person...Oh and to answer your question the splotches are very new within a day I'd say which is why I wondered if it was nitrate poisioning. I went from 0 nitrates to 80 overnight. Since doing several large water changes over the course of an hour or so since that day I haven't had a problem with water quality.

Again many thanks for your advice...Lastly should I salt the tank slowly? Doing 1% then 2% 12 hours later?

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Yes salt every 12 hours to let them get used to it.

The splodges sound bacterial but without a pic its hard to say. Do they look like pin pricks or acne? I know you say splodges but that sounds like they are uneven and irregular shaped? Could still be septiceamia, which comes from either high ammonia, nitrites or bacterial septiceamia. If it were the ammonia and nitrites then you should have seen an improvement with the water changes.

I know that you are having problems with the housing of them so please dont worry about that as you are doing the best you can.

Keep with the water changes and salt and hopefully once you get a pic someone else can help as Its late here.

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Thanks Sandy the camera is charging now so hopefully soon I'll be able to get some photo's. She just ate up the anti bacterial food like a little hog and her poop is the color of the blood worms she was eating this morning when I noticed her splodges. This is going to sound stupid but it almost looks as if she spaghetti sauce on her face. They are more orange then they are red and not at all evenly shaped. At the moment she is swimming around actively so hopefully I've caught this in time. Her water levels remain fine and I'll be adding salt in a few moments.

As far as housing goes my boyfriends old friend apparently is the distribution manager for Big Al's and we ran into him last week. Supposedly he's going to get us a nice tank cheap so I'm praying that works out. We went and priced a 220 gallon & a 260 gallon and if that doesn't work out. I'll find a way to get the larger one's into a bigger space. If this doesn't go through I am going to buy a 150 gallon pond form and put them in it for the time being. Well the 5 of them anyway.

Thank you for your patience and time, it means more then I can say. For now I just want to let her rest a bit its been a pretty long day for her as she's not really used to being held and looked at. As for me I haven't slept worrying about this so I think its time for a bit of a kip for me as well.

Again many thanks! I'll post a photo tommorow if not sooner.

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How are things going?

I agree with SAndy, it sounds like a bacterial infection. But a pic would be nice.

Hi Laurie thanks for the inquire. I'm still trying to get a photo but I'd need another set of hands to really get at her and then have the photo snapped as it is on her underside. Because she is in a rubbermaid tub the photo's I've taken of her are all to blurry to see much. But I'll work on it. I'm having a heck of a time keep meds in the water for more then 24 hours because of nitrite spikes. So I'm wondering if that could also be the culprit, at the moment she is still has her happy disposition and is swimming around actively. In order to control the nitrates I'm doing large water changes as you can imagine. I'm also wondering about one thing, I've been reading a lot of conflicting information reguarding nitrites. Some suggest no higher then .25 and some suggest it must be at zero. I personally am doing everything I can to keep it at zero but it means constantly removing the meds and readding them. Honestly its something I can't really afford to do at the moment but have been anyway. Because of this I've used up close to 24 tabs of Maracyn 2 in the last three days. :(

I'm also adding salt to the water to help their gills as well as feeding Jungles Anti Bacterial Medicated Foods, I'm going to try to get my hands on some metro meds but money is so extemely tight I don't even think I'm going to get home for Christmas as it is. :(

Thanks for asking after us, I'm doing the best that I possibly can for them and am praying it will be enough.

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Kat, not sure if you are mixing up nitrates and nitrates in your response above. So let's confirm that ok?

In a cycled tank NitrItes are suppose to be 0. Nothing else is acceptable. It is recommended when the tank is cycling no more than 0.25 nitrItes, this is only for the purpose of cycling the tank. Fish can't live "healthy" in a tank with nitrites.

Now nitrAtes are a bit different. They are suppose to be between 10-20 in a normal cycled tank. Anything above 40 and the fish can take ill.

I know it is getting expensive, as I assume it is. If you can get ahold of some Metromeds, and feed this exclusivly for 30 days you may be able to stop the "water meds" until you get the params back under control. That is a big maybe. All depending on how severe the infection is

In my opinion if the fish is acting ok, yet has these red spotches I would treat orally with the med food and ease up on the salt and keep the water top notch. Only if the fish is taking a turn for the worse do the Maracyn.

You have to watch though stopping the Maracyn before the end of the treatment because you can set up resistance to that med. So I would finish out the remaining meds.

does that make sense?

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Hi Laurie....

Thanks for the help...The tank sadly is not cycled as I thought it had I had for about 3 days 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites & 10 nitrates.

Then overnight I went from 0 nitrItes to them being 2.0 which you can only imagine how freaked out I was. So apparently I am still cycling, since the large water changes the nitrItes are about 25 ppm each morning therefore I am doing large water changes as you can imagine to keep them at zero.

I just called The Fish Sempai's website and spoke with the owners wife, the fish farm itself is 2 hours away but they live about 10 minutes away. They are being kind enough to let me come to their home either tonight or tommorrow to pick up some medicated food. She suggested I wait until her husband is home so he can reccomend the best foods for them.

WHEW...Now I'm just scared of the boyfriends reaction...He's not taking kindly to all of the time/money being spent on my goldies. And I have to agree that I am caring for them much more then I am myself these days but I'm trying. :)

Jeeze I can't wait to the day that I actually have healthy cycled tanks, it seems very far away.

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That is nice of them Kat. Hopefully he can help you out.

As for the cycling, hang in there. It will happen, but you are right sometimes it seems like forever.

You may want to feed lightly until you get a good balance on the cycle. But make sure the sick fish gets plenty of med food. Even if you have to hand feed just that fish.

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The good news:

I went to The Fish Sepai's house & picked up per his suggestion Medi Gold. He was super nice and said I'm welcome to visit his farm anytime. (something he'll live to regret mu hu ha ha ha!)

The Bad News:

The fish hate it! LOL I guess I'll have to wait until they are super hungry tommorrow and try again. Sweet Pea who is the one with the infection will never turn her nose (well ok work with me here) up to anything...Medi gold however is another story, I attemped to force feed it to her and she took a few pieces but so far my gang isn't sold on it. I think tommorow I'll have to mash it up with pea's.

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I don't think I would do that. I would fast them for a day or 2, till they are really hungry and then they should take it.

Keep force feeding the ill fish, so she is getting it. But the others will most likely pick around the peas and such, not to mention you don't really want to break or mash med food up.

Let me know how it goes.

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I don't think I would do that. I would fast them for a day or 2, till they are really hungry and then they should take it.

Keep force feeding the ill fish, so she is getting it. But the others will most likely pick around the peas and such, not to mention you don't really want to break or mash med food up.

Let me know how it goes.

You were right! This morning she was starving and ate the medi gold. May I ask how exactly to force feed?

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Great, glad to hear she is eating it.

Anytime you have to force feed a fish can be a bit nerve racking, but it is pretty simple. Gently pick the fish up with your "non" writing hand and wait until it stops wiggling. You can hold the fish at water level or just above water level. (that way if it wiggles free it falls into the tank).

Then have a piece of food ready in your writing hand and put it in it's mouth, watching for the chewing and swallowing before doing another.

Sometimes if you are doing this above water putting them back in the water (without letting go) will help to see them better. Just watch for spitting it out.

Good luck.

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Great, glad to hear she is eating it.

Anytime you have to force feed a fish can be a bit nerve racking, but it is pretty simple. Gently pick the fish up with your "non" writing hand and wait until it stops wiggling. You can hold the fish at water level or just above water level. (that way if it wiggles free it falls into the tank).

Then have a piece of food ready in your writing hand and put it in it's mouth, watching for the chewing and swallowing before doing another.

Sometimes if you are doing this above water putting them back in the water (without letting go) will help to see them better. Just watch for spitting it out.

Good luck.

Thanks Laurie, I felt a bit stupid asking that question. But a lot of things I thought I was doing correctly, I've found out the hard way. She's eating the pellets, no more then 3 of them at a time though which I hope is okay. That's why I was wondering I was wondering if it would be okay to dip them in pea baby food. Not so much to break them up to make them a bit more attractive to her.

Lastly, how much should I be feeding her per day? She's about 4 inche's without her tail.

Again thank you for your help!

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It is my pleasure to help out. ;)

Since she is eating it well I would still just go plain with it. If you can feed her the 3 pellets 4 times a day if you can. Maybe as she starts to feel better she'll take more at a time.

It is important to get the appropriate amount of meds in her.

Never feel silly asking questions, that is why we are here. And you are right, so many of us thought we were doing good until we learned better. :)

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Hi Laurie,

The spots are the same and both fish seemed pretty skiddish at the moment and at time bottom sitting. Even through force feeding she is spitting out the food. I fasted her last night and she ate a small bit today, but seems not to like it at all. Because I was doing agressive water changes I'm pretty sure that's why she is so skiddish. To test my theory I put in one flake on the other side of the tank and she flew over to get it. Hopefully her condition will improve as I am getting her a larger tank this week.

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I hope so too. Be careful using any other foods while feeding a medicated food. Gf are silly little creatures and will "hold" out for their old foods. Unfortunatly she has to be retrained. Hang in there, patience is a virtue.

She'll eventually get it, all of them do.

How are the water params doing now?

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I hope so too. Be careful using any other foods while feeding a medicated food. Gf are silly little creatures and will "hold" out for their old foods. Unfortunatly she has to be retrained. Hang in there, patience is a virtue.

She'll eventually get it, all of them do.

How are the water params doing now?

As far as water params go, I'm having a hard telling differentiating the nitrite chart actually. It looks to me as if its staying at .50 its a deep purple. I've yet to see it turn pink (1.0) or magenta so I am dosing with Prime accordingly. I wish it were possible to have colors that weren't so similar, it'd be easier to evaluate. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I was thinking of trying to post a picture of it the next time I test it.

Sweet Pea is swimming around actively at the moment and seems her usually happy self. Because of her zippy (another sarassa) tank mate she wasn't able to get at the flake, I just wanted to see if she was really sick or just holding out. Seems she's holding out so I'm going to wait a few hours as she's still not taking it and try again.

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I wish it were possible to have colors that weren't so similar, it'd be easier to evaluate. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I was thinking of trying to post a picture of it the next time I test it.

Your definitely not. Are you using a dropper based test? In a test tube? Ive always found it useful to look at the top of the waterline in the tube and see what colour it is. For the API test kit for instance ive found that the ammonia cant be hard to tell though the water at the top has an orange cast to it, different to the rest of the tube water if its 0 and if its a more similarly matched colour cast or slightly greenish then there are small traces.

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Kat what I do is hold whichever test I am doing against the same "white" piece of paper each time. Although I have trouble with the nitrates readings...............

Hopefully chem people will eventually see our situations and fix it.

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Kat what I do is hold whichever test I am doing against the same "white" piece of paper each time. Although I have trouble with the nitrates readings...............

Hopefully chem people will eventually see our situations and fix it.

Yep I do the same white paper, sunlight. I wish they'd find a way to use completely opposite colors. It would such a help, I know what you mean about nitrates. The orange & red are so similar.

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