Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Mav

One Side Swollen/lump

Recommended Posts

You never get problems in batches of just one, do you? :blink:

Earlier this week, I posted because of the heat, raising the temperature, and all of that. Daryl had some great advice for me, and my tank temperature is now back to 78-80, which sure beats 84 or so. The fish seem to agree with me.

Part of the reason I posted was that my redcap oranda, Sir Talks-A-Lot, had some kind of issue, and I thought maybe it was the beginning of dropsy. It's not. It would have progressed by now. His scales are not pineconing, his eyes aren't popping...

What he does have is a lump on one side. It's below the scales [which is why I thought it was the beginnings of dropsy at first, and after observation, I can tell it's clearly only on the one side].

He's interested in his food, but being a very slow eater right now. He really likes his peas, and normally he chews them right up, but lately, I have to find the squishiest ones, and use my nails to kind of put little tears in them, so they'll break up with less chewing, and be swallowable. His normal food [gel food] he seems to be doing fine with, but I chop that up into really small bits they should be able to swallow whole.

Also, I haven't necessarily seen him poop in a while -- but I'm gone a lot right now [at work for 9 hours a day, and then spending time with my family who live across town], so he could be pooping just fine, and I just never see it, if that makes sense.

I am presently at work [bad Mav, I know!], so I can't post params. or pictures or anything right now.

He doesn't seem to be in pain, he's not particularly lethargic -- he's still demanding food, still coming up to the top of the tank to yammer at me when I walk over to them, so all of his normal behavior...

He just has this... lump. (And I am reasonably sure he is, in fact, a he). It's not a small, tight lump, it's more of a generalized swelling on the one side of the body. Since whatever is under the scales, I can't see what it is.

So, after that confused rambling, I guess I have two questions:

1. What is this?

2. How do I treat it?

I'll try and post params. and a picture later this evening.

Thanks,

Mav

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mav since he is acting ok, I would just watch it. Of course posting the needed info when you get home is a good idea, make sure we dont' spot something to be contributing.

But really hard to say at this point. I would again just watch it see if it changes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LaurieP,

Here's a shot of him. If you look at the right side in the picture, there's just an extra roundness that's not there on the left. Also, I think it shows there's no real concerns about dropsy or any of that... just this strangeness. I don't really know how else to explain it.

Unfortunately, the tank gravel is white, and so is he, but I think it at least gives some idea of what I'm talking about.

I'll try and post the tank params. later.

post-2049-1154062815_thumb.jpg

--Mav

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

I can't really tell from the picture which is fuzzy for me, but we had 2 fish that developed swellings on one side only - there was no pineconing and no real change in behaviour until the last 1-2 days before they died, when the fish became listless and sank to the bottom. Both times, we think it was an internal infection. The swelling did not get much bigger but never went away either. There was no visible sign of stress until the fish was deathly ill. If you have access to medicated food, perhaps it would not hurt to medicate?

Perhaps Epsom salts will also ease the swelling, if it is indeed some kind of dropsy-like infection.

Good luck to you and your fish!

PS - oh yes, and our fish weren't pooping at all, or if they did, it was just mostly a tiny white string - another sign of an infection.

fw

Edited by fishywomble

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mav the swelling does seem to be on one side. Hmmm, it could be nothing or it could be something like an abcess waiting to erupt or a tumor of some sort on the inside.

There are a lot of things it could be, that is what is difficult with fish.

If you have felt it, does it seem hard or soft?

A mushyness could indicate an internal organ problem, on the other hand hardness could mean a tumor.

I would still play things by ear and not do anything unless other symptoms appear. But that is JMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest CLOGLADY

Hi Mav..I am new here and I haven't posted lately beacause I am going through the exact same thing you are. My red cap oranda Leah is suffering from all the same symptoms. There are no symtoms except puffiness on one side and lying on the other. I have treated for internal parasites. I have treated twice for bacterial infection. I have changed the water 25%-50%everyday for almost a month. I have her on medigold now. She poops fine, looks great and trys to swim normally. I hand feed her or hold her loosly upright so she can eat off the bottom. I "walk" her around the tank and make her swim. I think it is a true true case of SBD. I will keep you posted if I see any other changes. Good Luck. Amanda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, things with Sir Talks-A-Lot have been up and down. Literally.

Sometime yesterday afternoon/evening, he got worse, in that something happened to his sense of balance and I came home, and he was doing an imitation of a figure skater, doing a lay-back move -- almost straight up and down in the tank, with the head not quite in line with the tail. If he got swimming, it wouldn't be long before he'd flip over, on his back, tummy up.

But his gills were functioning fine, when prodded [mostly, me flipping him right side up], he'd often try and nip my fingers [as normal -- he thinks they're food], he was interested in his food, even if he needed help chasing it down. He wasn't struggling to right himself or anything that would make you think he was uncomfortable.

This morning, things were no better, but no worse. Still flipped over on his back, but still interested in food, all of that. He was more or less acting normal, he just couldn't swim right.

I was afraid things would not be good when I came home tonight, and he's still having problems with being stuck on his back, however, he's now more on the bottom of the tank. When I came in and turned on the light, he was trying to move around in the tank, and actually trying to pick up rocks, like he was searching for food. He's presently resting in one corner of the tank, on the bottom of the tank, still on his back, but again, not displaying any behavior that indicates this is bothering him. He can from time to time get onto his tummy, and rest that way, but when he moves much, like trying to get across the tank, he tends to flip.

I get that no normal fish wants to be on their back, so in that sense, this is not normal behavior, but he's not acting terribly disturbed, or not eating, or any of those other things that you look for. It's almost as if he knows something is wrong, and is trying to rest, and conserve his energy, as it were, or just try not to hurt himself.

I tested tank params. this morning, and ammonia was 0 ppm, nitrite was 0 ppm, and nitrate was in the 5-10 ppm range, which is actually lower than it was last week, and lower than it's been in a very, very long time [my tank often tends towards the 20-40 range]. The temperature here is starting to lower, so the tank is staying in the 78-80 range with much less work, and at times looks like it's getting into the 76-78 range, which is ideal.

We have at least one vet in town who knows something about fish [as much as the folks at Koko's, I don't know, but at least somebody besides me and my family can actually visually see the fish], so tomorrow morning, I am taking Sir Talks-A-Lot to the vet, and we will see how things go from there.

He is a stubborn fish, so hopefully he will be able to hang in there, and the vet will have some useful information for us.

--Mav

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mav - i'm glad you're taking Sir Talks-A-Lot to the vet, sadly, it may be a tumour that's affecting his swim bladder by pressing on it but the vet will be able to advise you for sure...

My fingers are crossed it's not a tumour so please post back as soon as you know :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, we are back from the vets. Can't say it went terribly well -- I got good and wet in the process, for one thing.

I don't think our vet knows how to say anything other than "swim bladder." When he tried to start explaining to me what a swim bladder was, I said, "He's 4 years old. I know what a swim bladder is." Cranky, much? I just didn't want to get the absolute-beginner-knows-nothing-about-fish level of information.

Thankfully, once I had established that fact -- and I asked some intelligent questions -- I did get a much higher level of answer. To wit: You can x-ray a fish. However, that doesn't always get much of a return, as only something like a rock will show up on the x-ray, if there is a problem but is less dense, it just won't show up on the x-ray. You can do surgery, but it's risky, particularly if you don't know precisely what you're looking for, etc.

And then there's the small (5-15, maybe 20%) of fish who learn how to adjust to life swimming upside down. Some fish will gradually recover, for who-knows-what-reason. The main concern is that the fish doesn't starve, because if they're upside down, it's hard to get food. I said this was not a concern, as I can hold him, put food in front of his nose, and swim him around the tank to get the food. He'll let me do it, doesn't fight, and is happy to eat.

Basically, what I got told is, We don't know why this happens, and we can't say why it happens to previous very healthy fish. What he didn't say, in words, but I know was there, was basically, At some point, the fish is going to die. You can choose the circumstances. I thought Sir Talks-A-Lot deserved better than being put to sleep in some vet clinic.

He's a stubborn fish, and I didn't feel right in letting him go when he could still fight this. I even have a plan to fight this [see post I will create shortly in the gf discussion board, asking who it was that made the fish sling, and how did they make it].

Not information I wanted to hear, of course, but let's face it, there's a whole lot of vets out there that won't even look at a fish, so I can't whine as much as I'd like to.

--Mav

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heres a link full of swim bladder info it will help.

http://www.geocities.com/swimbladderhelp/index.html

A thing with swim bladder is feed just peas twice a week instead of ordinary food and increase temp of your tank it helps I had a comet with swim bladder :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Mav,very few vets actually seldom if ever deal with fish,and only have the barest of answers,so I wouldn't give up too fast either.

Your waters seem spot on,your temps are in a good range.What is your daily feeding for food-how many times a day?

As hard as it is,start trying to pay attention for poop.Most goldfish are pooing even before they're done eating. :rolleyes: See what it looks like.The thing that you have to remember,is that this could have been something a long time coming. Stunted fish-- or fish that have lived in poor water quality,etc.that all plays a part in SB down the road,because organs get damaged from these things. It could even be just his genetic's/It may be something as simple as changing his diet,or cutting down his intake.There are alot of things that you can try first.

I have a beautiful little short tail calico oranda that got stuck behind a filter.Needless to say that she's been living on the bottom of the tank ever since.I watch and feel so bad for her,but she's a trooper,and I can't bring myself to put her down.She apparently damaged her swimbladder and no matter what I've done,I don't think she'll ever be right. It's pathetic to watch her swimming on her side,but she's such a lovely fish and has never given up so I can't give up on her. :heart:heart

I really hope that you find an answer to this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I put this in your other thread too, but just in case:

Not sure if this is the same thing as the link Blue gave you in your other post, but is this the one you are talking about?

http://www.sullivanet.com/misc/fishie/addy...s-schematic.gif

http://www.sullivanet.com/misc/fishie/time...dy-2004-sep.jpg

http://www.sullivanet.com/misc/fishie/time...dy-2005-mar.jpg

http://www.sullivanet.com/misc/fishie/addy...-schematic2.gif

Main site link: http://www.sullivanet.com/misc/fishie/ Addy is the fish with the sling, although I think she passed away :-(

And also a link to a thread where slings were discussed here: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...=47094&hl=sling

That said, most of the experts here think the sling is probably not a good idea as it would remove lime coat and possibly cause sores/ulcers, I have no opinion since I have never had a fish with sbd and am still new to fishkeeping, but thought it was worth mentioning.

Either way, good luck with your fish, I am glad you are not giving up on him!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the advice, especially Devs and LaurieP.

Unfortunately, Sir Talks-A-Lot passed away sometime yesterday afternoon while I was at work. :cry1

The only good thing is, at least he was at home, in his tank, with his friend Inky [so I still have one fish left]. I am thinking this would be preferable to being alone, at some vet's office.

I am also not convinced my vet is not the Grim Reaper in disguise. He gets your address from the patient information form, and then he goes and kills your fish. This is the second fish I've taken in to him [Cadbury, my orange oranda died in 2003, but that was before I'd found Koko's], and both times, I've been told it's swim bladder, there's not really anything you can do, and both times, the fish has died the next day. Yup, he's the Grim Reaper all right. :hide:

Inky doesn't know what to think of all of this [he was swimming around last night and this morning looking for Sir Talks-A-Lot], and I'm not sure I know what to think either. Anybody who says "He's just a fish!" clearly has never had a fish.

I think it was the heat wave at the beginning of last month that triggered him getting sick, and after that, there probably wasn't anything I could do.

He's been buried in my parents' yard, near where we buried Cadbury. :rip:

--Mav

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My ryukin had swim bladder and he had it a long time and then after over a year of having it he passed away

i agree andyone who says its just a fish has never cared for them before

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...