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Parasite Clear


bubblegoose

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Well, I just recieved my first order from Big Al's...I ordered Parasite Clear, to treat my fish for flukes. The package arrived all packed up really well, with plastic "air pillows" protecting the box of meds even...for some strange reason...

anyways, my question is this...I had done a bunch a research to find the best med to treat with for flukes, and had chosen Parasite Clear because (on the JungleLabs product site) it states that it now contains Praziaquatel (or however it's spelled), which I've heard is a good treatment for flukes. But, I just got the med, and according to the ingredients, it does not contain Prazi??! :blink: I'm a little confused, as the site clearly states that it does, and the package of meds looks identical to the one pictured on the Jungle site. <_<

So, I guess I'm just wondering if anyone knows whether the product does contain this ingredient...and also whether it will still be affective if not. Here are the ingredients stated on the package:

dimethyl (2,2,2-trichloro-1-hydroxyethyl) phosphate, N-[[(4-Chlorophenyl) amino] carbonyl]-2, 6-difluorobenzamide, metronidazole, victoria green, acriflavine.

Any advice or comments are appreciated!

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I have used it on several occasions and have always had good results. I have the box in front of me and my ingrediants don't match yours at all. Mine are

praziquantel;N-[[(4-Cholorophenyl)amino]carbon 1]-2,6-difluorobenzamide;metronidazole;acriflavine

I usually get mine at nnnnnn as it is the closest place for me to find it. Hmmm, that is strange....maybe you should call Jungle labs to see if it is an old box. Thier number is on mine

1-80-357-7104

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yeah, I was wondering about that....but I figured that because the box matches the one on the Jungle Labs site, that it was that same.

Hm, well now this is somewhat annoying....

I've treated the tank, as the fish have been sick FOREVER and I really wanted to give something a try...but so far things don't look very good. The smallest (and sickest fish) is fairly stressed out, though he hasn't looked very good lately anyways.

I'm at my wits end with these fish...I've only have them for 3 and a half months, and they've been sick for 3. I've been on this site non-stop for them, trying to figure out first what was wrong and then how to treat. I guess I'll just hope that I'll wake up tomorrow and they'll be swimming around happy and fluke-free. I don't know how high my hopes are...

Anyways, about this Parasite Clear product, should I contact Big Al's or Jungle Labs? I feel like I received some incorrect information somewhere, especially if this med doesn't in fact work...should I contact Big Al's to find out if I got an older version of the product? They didn't in fact have the ingredients listed on their site, so I relied on the ingredients listed on the Jungle Labs site...maybe I shouldn't have relied on that?

Any advice or comments??? Thanks guys!

I should add that I did try and contact Jungle Labs earlier, but was unable to get through to anyone...I"ll try again tomorrow...hopefully I'll figure out what's going on.

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Well, I have some somewhat good news regarding the condition of my fishies. They're not dead! To be honest, I had little hope for little Spot last night...as he was barely moving and just floating at the top of the tank. Though he's done that before, and always bounced back the next day...to my astonishment he seems to have done it again! Though the fish don't look 100%, they are still alive, and swimming around and eating and as I watch them they seem to yawn much less. Though they're still gasping...which leads me to wonder if it's all in my head. But then again, since they've been sick for so long, I'm sure that their gills are probably pretty damaged from the parasite. I have a few questions though:

1. I treated them last night, and the box says that for "Internal parasite: treatment may be repeated up to 2 times, with 48 hours in between and a 25% water change. External Parasites: Remove carbon. For anchor worm, repeat treatment up to 3 times using once a week with 25% water changes." So, if treating for flukes, what should I do? I was adviced before (when using QC) to treat again 4 days after initially treating...as flukes has a 3-4 day reproductive cycle...so, should I treat again in 3 or 4 days? Should I refrain from doing a water change until then?

2. Is it normal for them to still be gasping? Should I expect immediate results? Or should I expect their breathing to gradually improve?

3. Also, my black moore kind of looks like he's got white lips. He's had this for awhile, and I can't tell if it's mouth fungus, cotton mouth (the same thing?), or normal...any ideas? Should I think of treating him for that once I'm done with this?

Thanks so much guys! I appreciate all the advice!

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The DTHP (Dimethy Phosphate) has a shot of getting rid of flukes, so go ahead and keep treating. I would treat every 4th day for at least 3 treatments, without a water change until right before the next treatment if water params allow.

Is it normal for them to still be gasping? Should I expect immediate results?

Even after the parasite is erradicated, it will take some time for the gills to heal and breathing to improve. Once the parasites are taken care of and they've been off meds for awhile in clean water is when you'll start to see improvement.

Also, my black moore kind of looks like he's got white lips.

Are you *sure* there is damage to the lips, and you're not just noticing this difference in coloration for the first time recently? It would be a good idea to salt the water (up to 0.3%) when you're done with treatment, but unless you're sure there is a problem, I would hold off additional meds. If the condition gets worse or you're sure there's a real problem and not just a difference in coloring, meds might be called for, but I wouldn't treat on the side of precaution. Even if it is a fungal or bacterial condition, it may heal itself up once the parasites are erradicated and the fish is in nice clean (salted) water. :)

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Thanks so much HG...you've really been a life-saver with my fish. I can always count on you to give me a quite, informative answer to any of my questions. :D

I'll treat again with the meds in a couple days, as they seem to have reacted alright to them (at least they're no worse). I contacted BigAl's today, because they had sent me the wrong meds (an older version) and they said they'll check things out, and send me a new one...so if this treatment doesn't work, then at least I've got something else to try (though I'll obviously give them sufficient time off in between to heal on their own).

Anyways, with regards to Little Moe's (black moore) lips...they have appeared white for a while now, and I was also noticing some wierd white patches awhile back, that would randomly appear and dissappear...then his lips turned white. He also seems to move and "wiggle" his lips a lot (hard to explain) kind of like they're irritated or something...but maybe this all just has to do with the parasite. He also has a little fin damage (which is apparantly caused by the parasite, and should be cleared up by the Parasite Clear).

Also, they seem to be extremely lathargic, and at this moment my black moore is just basically hanging at the top of the water...don't really know what's going on there. Last night when I went to bed both he and the fantail were doing that (the third fish seems relatively unaffected by anything going on), but looked better earlier today. Maybe he just gets tired at night. I really hope these meds work, as I'm afraid their condition will only worsen if not.

Anyways, thanks again for the help, I'll keep you updated on their situation.

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Good news with regards to the meds that I bought...apparantly Jungle has not actually changed their medication, and the Parasite Clear has always contained Praziquantel....they just didn't list it as an ingredient before. <_< This makes me wonder whether there is really enough in it to make much of a difference, but at least I've got the right med, and I don't have to worry about treating them again with a different med. They also said that all their meds have an infinite shelf life, so the meds should still be alright (though the box does say it's 4 years old...BigAl's didn't think that they could have possibly had it around that long).

Anyways, just though I'd let you know.

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One question...when you say I should treat every 4 days, do you mean:

a) Day 1 - treat

Day 2 - don't treat

Day 3 - don't treat

Day 4- treat

or B) I treated on Monday, and therefore don't treat Tues, Wed or Thurs, and treat again on Friday?

Wierd question, but both ways seem to mean to treat every 4 days...any help?

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If you were treating every 4 days, you'd treat Monday, not treat Tuesday (Day 1), Wednesday, (Day 2) or Thursday (Day 3) and then treat on Friday (Day 4). You could opt to treat every 3rd day instead and it would be comparibly effective, so even the other interpretation of "every 4 days" would suffice.

How are your fish doing? What is the "fin damage" like? Splits/tears, or raggety on the ends? If they seem any worse off than before (in terms of lethargy and hanging at the surface), you might want to check their gills again to be sure nothing more serious is going on there (physical damage, infection, etc.).

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They actually appear to be doing alright.....a little lethargic, but no more so then before. The fins are more raggety in the tips then anything...and it seems to really only be at the bottom of the tail fin. Other then that, the other two fish's fins look pretty good. Still some gasping, but I think they may be relying on it less (at least I hope so!) I opted not to treat them yesterday, as I tested the water and all was good, so I figured I would hold off one more day. Which means they'll get their second dose today. Cross your fingers with me! :P

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Guest starsmom

On the gasping thing with the paraclear, when I used it, I turned up my air pump all the way, and it seemed to help. For some reason I think it effects the oxygen in the tank? Anyhow, I would try upping the air if you can...

I hope your fishies are doing better!

Laura

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The gasping is actually a symptom they've had for awhile now (the smallest has been gasping for about 3 months....even longer now). I have a HOB filter, on UGF and an air bar that's about foot long...I hope that's enough aeration. I actually use to have another air bar (about 6inches long) in there too...but I think that there was WAY too much turbulance going on in my little 20 gallon, and the fish never left one corner of the tank (their favorite corner). So, I removed that one....they seem a little better now (at least they gasp in other corners too <_< ).

Anyways, to update on my fish's behaviour....I guess I would call it so-so. Let's just say they've looked worse, but I hope that one day they'll look MUCH better. The littlest one is still gasping (then, what else is new....on a side note, it's wierd how this fish's personality has developped for me...I mean, ever since I've had him he's been on the verge of dying and has basically spent all his time head up at the surface gasping for air. Surprisingly, he's grown...quite a bit actually. But, he's also managed to infect my other 2 fish...and has managed to keep my tank infected for about 3 months now. Anyways, I've sort of built a love/hate relationship with him...sort of like, "Look little Spot, either shape up and get better, or give up and move on!..,...but please try your hardest to get better". :P ) Anyways, his fins are looking relatively good. The black moore's fins are still pretty tattered on the tips, though they don't seem to get worse at all. He still joins Spot at the surface half the time, gasping too. Whereas Chubbs (my biggest fish (a whooping 2 and a half inches, tip-to-tip), a healthy "red cap" who's becoming oranger by the day) is still relatively unaffected by the whole situation....though I do notice him yawn more the I think he should be, and he is also sometimes at the surface with the other two gasping.

Anyways, just thought I would up date you guys on the situation....

Also, the tank water is perfect....(0,0,5)...they eat fine (I feed them once or twice a day...Hikari pellets and peas and tubifex mostly...they're very picky eaters, but they eat A LOT of what they like).

Other then that, I just dosed them last night the second time with Parasite Clear. Along with a gravel vac and a 35% water change. :D

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The fish are looking pretty bad tonight. The black moore is basically just hanging at the surface of the water, along with Spot. Spot is also having A LOT of trouble swimming (which he often has....I chalked it up to the flukes and whatnot), but he seems to be getting worse...flipping over, swimming upside down, floating akwardly. I don't know...it doesn't seem like the meds have helped at all. I've treated twice now, with 4 days in between....and the fish still appear as irritated and oxygen-deprived as always.

Any advice???? I don't want to start losing them after we've fought for so long!

SO FRUSTRATING!!!! :angry: :angry: :(

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Could you check their gills again and see how they look?

If the med you're using indeed does contain prazi, it should be effective against flukes, but that's it. So if your fish got worse on this med, I would think it'd be reasonable to consider that flukes might not be their problem.

I can't say anything for sure, of course, but since they seem to be getting worse and their symptoms (gasping in perfect water) is typical of parasitism, it sounds like one of two things is happening here:

1. Flukes *are* the problem and the med you're using isn't effective. You said the manufacturer assured you that even the meds you received contained prazi, so I guess as best we know you're treating with prazi (AS BEST WE KNOW).

2. Flukes aren't the problem, and the stress of medication that isn't getting whatever bug they've got, along with the length of time they've had whatever they've got, is allowing the bugs to multiply and become more of a problem.

I wish I could help you with a biopsy. Take a look at their gills and look closely for any physical damage. There are 2 sections of gill filaments, with one laying on top of the other, so you sometimes have to look closely to see any missing or clumped sections. Also pay close attention to the coloring and look for any miscolored patches. You could check water quality, too, just to be sure.

I am really sorry to hear they're doing worse. I know everyone is pulling for your little guys - keep us updated.

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well, I tried checking their gills....though the littlest fish is so little it was really quite difficult. The gills (from what I can tell) look alright...though I may have seen a discoloured area on the smallest fish (but when I tried looking again, I couldn't really see it). I also checked the larger (least sick) fish's gills, they looked fine (I think). I don't really know what I"m doing when I check them though, and I don't really understand what you mean by 2 layers of filaments....I can't really see 2.

Anyways, I"m not sure how convinced I am that this still isn't flukes. I mean, the fact that the Parasite Clear was never altered, but now all of a sudden they are marketing it as "Now containing Praziquantel", makes me wonder just how much of the ingredient is actually in there. Also, ALL the symptoms point straight to flukes, and nothing else I've read sounds even remotely what they have.

Symptoms: gasping, yawning, scratching, gulping bubbles and passing them out their gills, flashing, lethargy, tattered fins, swimming problems.....yet they eat fine and their fins aren't clamped.

what else could it be? Any suggestions would be wonderful.

Have you ever had any experience with an untreatable form of flukes? I've read places that flukes are difficult to treat because they build up immunity to different meds. Is there anything out there that is guaranteed effective? I really wanted to try PP, as I've read on KoiVet that there is a method of treatment that is 100% effective, but apparantly PP is now really hard to buy (and I haven't been able to get any)....any other suggestions?

Thanks for the help!

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I should mention also that they always seem to get worse throughout the day...they look pretty good in the morning (swimming around fairly normally and whatnot), but then by the time night rolls around, they look much worse again....

don't know why that is....maybe just exhaustion?

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I should also add that my water just tested fine (ammonia and nitrite both zero), which I guess means that the meds didn't affect it! (yay!)

Also, I just noticed that my oranda seems to have tiny red spots/streaks throughout his fins....not a lot, but I can see one on his pectoral fin and a few on the tail. They look like tiny spots of blood. He has always had a few faint red veins showing at the base of his tail fin...but they never looked any better or worse, so I figured it was just cause he's white. But now these red spots have shown up.

Just thought I'd let you know.

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Well, now either I'm getting paranoid or I just realized that one of my black moore's eyes looks quite a bit bigger then the other. It's hard to tell though wether it's just growing faster or wether something's wrong. There's no discolouration, except for a tiny red speck in his eye that I noticed a couple days ago. The eye looks like it's bulging out much more then the other....though I really don't know wether it's been like this for awhile or not. What's going on??

Also, upon looking at JoAnne's physical, I would definitely say the fish's gills are more of a dark red then and bright cherry red...almost like a brown red (the colour of raw hamburger sort of).

Also, the sunlight is currently hitting the tank, and I can tell that the fish look milky (excess slime)...especially the black moore and spot.

Just keeping you updated!

Anyways, thanks for all the help!

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I'll try to explain the "2 sets of filaments" thing. Lay your right hand down flat on the desk, palm up, and then put your other hand on top of that so your palms are touching. This is kind of how the gills are. [Now, keeping your little fingers touching, rotate your left hand up so it's vertical.] There is a "top section" of gill filaments (your left hand) that can lift out towards the gill cover and the other section that stays near the body of the fish. Now rotate your left hand back down so your palms are once again touching.] When you lift the gill cover, the outer set of fillaments falls down onto the other set, so all you usually see (unless the top set sticks to the operculum) is the outer side of the outer set of filaments (or the back of your left hand). I hope that helped and wasn't insulting.

All the symptoms you describe could be indicative of any parasite that affects the gills (costia and trich are two other common bugs that are hard to rid). They normally kill rather quickly, but I have had fish in quarantine who went for months before they showed symptoms and costia was confirmed. I have personally seen small red spots and excess slime with costia infections much more often than with flukes. This is just my personal experience and does not mean that flukes aren't your problem. I have never had problems ridding flukes with successive treatments of prazi or PP (every 3-4 days). I have had mixed success with some other meds. There are other parasites much harder to rid than flukes.

Did you notice if the filaments were clumped together, had any sections missing or looked mangled in any way? (They should look straight and perfectly lined up). Are the fish still scratching? Did the fish feel especially slimey when you handled them?

I guess for now continue with the PC and hope for the best since you've already went through a round of f/mg treatments and we have no way to rule out flukes. Were they going to send you more meds? How many treatments have you done? An alternative would be to go back to the f/mg, but this is not without risk, either. It's too bad we can't get a biopsy.

I wish you all the luck in the world with these little guys. Eating and active (even if it's mostly in the morning) are good signs, so that's something to hold on to.

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Thanks for the great explanation of the double-layered gill! You should be a teacher! I'll recheck their gills tomorrow, keeping what you said in mind. To be honest, I didn't even notice "perfectly lined up filaments", it looked just red to me. But I'll take a closer look tomorrow.

Anyways, the red spots seem to have sort of dissappeared and been replaced by red streaks....a few of them throughout her tail.

Moe's eye still looks swollen...it sort of has a "tire" around it...a donut. But then again, maybe his eyes are just growing?

And lastly, Mr. Sparkle (now known as Chubbs) layed eggs today! I thought they were way too little to be doing that sort of thing (Chubbs is now about 3 inches, tip-to-tip). But sure enough, Moe buggered her butt all day until the finally let em fly! How exciting! :happydance I guess they're not as sick as I thought!

Regarding treatment... I'll give them one more dose of the PC tonight, as it's the 4th day after treating them a second time. Hopefully it'll help...though my hopes are not high. I don't think I want to go back to QC again, as I really feel like I've tried it and it failed too many times already. Should I try and get my hands on anything else that you would recommend? Or I could just let them be for awhile again...

The problem though is that I'm going home for 2 weeks over Christmas, and while my boyfriend will be here to feed to fish for one of those weeks, they will be alone and without water changes for one of them. I don't know if they'll all make it through that. I wanted to cure them before I left....I though I definitely would...but so far no luck....

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Well, the fish are still kickin'!!! Yay!

They seems better, yet still sick all at the same time. Chubbs doesn't gasp much anymore, though I notice the occasional yawn. Moe still has one swollen eye, but I'm keeping a good watch on it to make sure it doesn't get worse. Spot still gasps all the time, and scratches on the glass a lot. He seems to be swimming much better now, and doesn't appear to lose control all the time. Other then that, Moe just keeps chasing Chubbs around the tank, trying to get her to release some more egges.....it's really quite cute. I figure if they're healthy enough to be thinking about reproducing, then they can't be that sick! :lol:

Anyways, I have one question.....the Parasite Clear has yet to show me that it really does work...while the fish are not any worse, they're also not better. I've treated them so far 3 times, all with 4 days in between. I have one more treatment...should I treat one last time?

Or, my other thought was that I should forgo the last treatment (if it hasn't worked yet, will another treatment help?) and just salt the tank for a little while (due to the swollen eye)....what do you think?

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If the fish don't seem *any* better at all, I don't know that another PC dose would do any good. It does sound like they've improved a little, though, and another dose probably wouldn't hurt so it's up to you.

I don't blame you for not wanting to go back to QC. Was Big Al's going to send you another box of PC (a newer box with prazi listed)? Prazi would be the best bet if you wanted to try another treatment for flukes. For everything else, f+mg are pretty reliable. Proform C is a good product for this combo of meds; Rid Ich + is basically the same thing.

I definitely would salt them if you decide to stop medicating, not only for the eye but to curb (and maybe kill) any parasites that are still around. .6% would be good for this, but observe him closely when you raise it past .3% to be sure that the increased salt level isn't causing any more irritation to his eye (I have used .6% with fish with eye damage and haven't had a problem, but better safe than sorry). I don't recall (it's been such a long time!) - have you tried a salt treatment on these fish before? If so, how much and for how long?

The week they'll be left alone shouldn't be too much of a problem since your water params are good, though I know it is nerve wracking to have to leave unwell fish. Just do a water change (or have you bf do one! :D ) before they're left alone and salt the water to a thereputic level.

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Well, I think I may give them the last treatment of PC tonight, even though I'm not quite sure it's working...at least then I gave it the best shot. With regards to getting a new pack of meds, according to Jungle, the meds I got are the right meds...they never changed their ingredients, and therefore the med never changed. They only changed the listed ingredients....don't ask me why...go figure. So yeah, the med I'm using does have Prazi in it, but I'm really skeptical as to how much, considering they only recently started listing it.

Starting in a few days I will start raising the salt concentration (yes, I have salted the tank before).....and get it up to at least 0.3%. Hopefully that will bring Moe's swelling down. Any ideas what may have caused that?

Also, I rechecked my fish's gills yesterday...trying to get a really good look this time. Spot is really just too small to see much of anything. He's only like an inch long (body length) and therefore the gills are really too small to see antyhing. I did check Chubbs' gills though, and even managed to see the "perfectly lined up gill filaments", which looked fine....well, at least her's do.

This whole thing has just been such a headache. I love my fish so much, and really just want then to be healthy. :blink:

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