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Fish Has Been Swimming Upside Down And Is Listless


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Guest SminiFish

Uno is not doing well tonight. :ill

He is head down in the corner of the tank. I am so concerned about him! I tested the water tonight, ready to do another daily water change but ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0, nitrAte is between 20-40 (best it has been so far!), and the pH is 7.4.

The water parameters are the best they have ever been, but Uno is still not well. :ill

Please help! :please I have added salt to the tank to help him along. I should have asked Rick to overnight the meds for flukes, I just wasn't thinking straight at the time. :(

Does anyone have any suggestions to help Uno?

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Guest SminiFish

Dave,

You had mentioned I should look into a UV sterilizer, I have looked into them but don't know much about them. I know this may sound like a stupid question but one of my bird's cages is behind Uno and Cajun's fish tank (my house is very open, not too many walls separating the rooms, so I do with what I have to seperate things out). Is the UV light encased in a unit where it would not come in contact with my bird? I know that may sound dumb, but I don't know much about these units and I don't want to jeopardize my bird in any way from any harmful rays or light that may be emmitted from the UV unit.

I hope this question doesn't sound too dumb or ignorant, but I'm just concerned about this. Looking forward to you reply.

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I just went ahead and did a 25% water change and added in some aquarium salt. That perked Uno up for about 2 minutes and then he went back to having his head down in a corner. :(

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No such thing as a dumb question, Susan.

My parrots are immediately adjacent to my fish tanks as well - the UV units are totally opaque, except for a small viewing port so you can see the light is on. No worries there. These are relatively small units - my largest is 15 watts, and remember your basic physics - light energy disperses with the square of the distance. Parasites have to be within like 1/8 - 1/4 inch for a certain time to be killed. There will be no issue with the birds at all.

If you have a vvvv near you, I know they carry Jungle Labs Paraste Clear wich has Prazi as one of its main ingredients. It will not mess up your cycle at all, and both of mine tolerated it well.

I'm wishing well for Uno.

Dave

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Thank you so much Dave!

You mentioned you like the UV sterilizers from Goldfish Connection. I'm going to look at those again. Good to hear that it is safe around the parrots! Wouldn't want to cause any harm to them. What kind of parrots do you have?

I am going to go to mmm tonight and see if they have any of the Jungle Labs Parasite clear. I'm afraid Uno may not be able to wait for the parasite meds from Rick (I live in California so it is going to take a few days-gosh! I wish I had asked him to ship overnight! Just wasn't thinking at the time). At least I can get Uno started on that tonight. Wish us luck! I'll keep you posted!

P.S. Cajun seems to be doing ok through all of this. He is swimming about the tank but seems to be concerned for his buddy Uno.

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Sorta like Nemo - never showed many symptoms, but concern, until he started flashing badly and digging huge holes in the gravel. A few days of PC and the UV, followed by a second round of PC a week later, and feeding him metromed - he seems as right as rain now.

You may want to go back to feeding metromed for 14 days, if you have it. It was wonderful food for my two, and definitely helped Nemo with the parasites. Jungle Labs makes a parasite food that you can get at most pet stores, but it is designed to float.

I got two of the 8-watt UVs from Rick - they are easy to set up - for my qt tanks. Never actually set up the one on Dory, it's in reserve, at the moment. And I got a 15-watt that is the same brand, physical size, etc. for my main because I wanted a little more oomph in 58 gallons. My water has NEVER looked better, and my two seem quite happy 2 1/2 days in. Because it is hot here, now, the tank is running warmer than I'd prefer - about 78 degrees, but it does not seem to bother them at all.

We do have mmm here, but they are 10 miles further away than vvvv, so I rarely visit them. Not sure what they carry for fish supplies, even. Good Luck!

As for birds, we have a 23 year-old Mexican Red-Head Amazon (also called a Green-Cheeked Mexican) and a 4 year-old Blue-Crowned Conure - Herbie and Mickey, respectively.

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I got some Jungle Labs Parasite Clear last night and treated the tank. Uno is still sitting on the bottom of the tank. Does it take a while to kick in? Also, I was a bit confused by the directions. It says "Treatment may be repeated up to two times with 48 hours between treatments and a 25% water change." So I take that as meaning you have to wait 2 days before you treat the tank again with the PC, but when should you do the 25% water change? 24 hours after the first treatment? Right before the second treatment?

Also, it says to take carbon filters out. I took the filters out of the Penguin 330 biowheel filter, but with the Eheim cannister, I don't believe there are carbon filters. There are sponge filters (2) and some media (cylindrical tubes and round rock like media), so I didn't take anything out of that. Was that teh right thing to do?

I saw some of Uno and Cajun's feces floating around: it is clear, white, and stringy. What more can I do for Uno?

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I have been continuing to feed the Medi-Gold. Should I feed metromed instead?

mmm did have the Parasite Clear, but I wish my town had a good fish aquarium store. The fish at mmm are so sick and are dying all the time. It makes me ill going there and seeing that, but when I need fish supplies, it is my only alternative. The closest reputable fish store is about an hour away and it is difficult to get to, so for now, mmm has to do.

Dave, your parrots sound beautiful! I have three here at my place. They are wonderful companions!

Thank you again for your help and I look forward to your reply.

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Susan,

You've done what you can. I took the PC instructions to mean that you do a treatment, wait 48 hours, change 25% water, do a second treatment. I personally followed that up after a week with another exact same treatment. I saw no real effect until after the second treatment at 48 hours, when Nemo started having the occasional normal poop, so yes, it does take a bit to kick in, I think. If it is parasites, Cajun likely has them as well, so this plan of treatment will be of benefit to both of them.

It is indeed awful how the chain stores work. I'm lucky - I have a Mom and Pop who have been doing this for 35 years about a 30 min drive away. I get all my tanks, and major equipment from them, if they stock it; I've gotten enough from them that they give me their best price.

I, too, will run to vvvv or whatever is close for meds, Prime, etc.

Metromed is recommended for parasites, yes; if you have it, I would think you want to switch, Rick recommended I go back to metromed when Nemo was having his parasite issue. Might be worth a call to Rick. With PC and Metromed, Nemo's poop was about half normal in 5 days. If you do talk to Rick, I would ask that, if you can afford it, you also talk about UV units - it has done a world of good for my two, and remember, what we went through was similar.

What sort of birds do you have? I think it is hysterical how they talk to the fish, especially in the morning.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you and Uno!

Dave

Dave

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Hi Dave,

Thank you for helping clear up the PC directions for me. The more I observe Uno, the more convinced I become that he has parasites. He was sitting at the bottom of his tank all day and then all of a sudden tonight, just started to swim and dart back and forth in the tank. Is that what flashing is, like you described in your post about Nemo? I read on the back of the Jungle Labs PC box that fish with parasites will dart back and forth in the tank, that they will be listless, lethargic, and have white stringy feces: all the signs that Uno has.

I am going to call Rick tomorrow and get some Metromed from him and also talk to him about the UV sterilizers. This time I will remember to ask for overnight shipping! :) I read your posts as well as Laurie's posts on the difference between the Metromed and Medi-Gold. Metronadazole is a very good medication.

I have three birds: a Cockatiel, a Senegal, and an African Grey. They are so much fun! Have you seen the movie, The Wild Parrots of Telegraph Hill? If not, I highly recomend it. It centers around a wild flock of cherry headed conures in San Francisco. One of the birds in the flock is a blue crowned conure named Connor. It is a great movie and is now out on DVD.

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Yeah! I got up this morning and Uno is swimming around the tank! Yipee! :nana:panana:tbanana:greenbanana::redbanana:

He is still a bit listless, but he is swimming around with Cajun and is not on the bottom of the tank.

I just ordered the metromeds from Rick and also got some of the jump start probiotics as well to give to them after they finish up their medicated food. I talked with them about the UV sterilizer but I think I'm going to have to wait on that ( have to pay bills today :-( ). I will do a 25% water change tonight and treat the tank again with PC. I think we are on the way to recovery! Keep your fingers crossed for us!

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That all sounds good! Hooray for you and Uno! :)

I will have to check out that movie - but somehow I can't imagine a flock of cherry heads associating with a blue crown. :rolleyes:

You can put off the UV for a bit, for sure, since you're actively treating for parasites; longer term, I do believe it is the best way to prevent reoccurance.

Dave

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Guest SminiFish

Hi!

Uno seems to be doing well! He is swimming around in his tank as I write this. I've treated the tank twice now with PC. I got the Metromed in yesterdays mail and started feeding it to Uno and Cajun last night. During the day, Uno is quiet and hangs out toward the bottom of the tank, but then in the evenings, he perks up and swims about. It seems odd, but Uno has always been the type of fish who doesn't move around a lot during the day. Could this just be "normal" for him? Do you think his blindness may have anything to do with this?

I feel both Uno and Cajun are on the road to recovery. I am really glad I got the Metromed-it is just one more thing to help them recover. I'll keep you posted as to how they continue to do. Talk to you soon!

Dave, let me know what you think of the movie about the wild parrots in SF if you rent it. I read the book as well and throughly enjoyed it. Talk to you soon!

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Susan,

I suspect it is normal for him, but I don't really know why - I've not had a blind fish. As long as his activity level is normal FOR HIM then I agree, you're well on the road!

Feed nothing but the Metromed for at least 14 days, and up to 30 days. The color and consistency of their poop will let you know if you need to go longer than 14 days, and an occasional white stringy one (say once every few days) is not a problem.

Are you going to do another round of PC after 7 days, or are you going to use the PraziPro?

I'll let you know when we get the movie - been pretty hectic around here this weekend - got a new car!

Dave

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Guest SminiFish

Tested the water today. Ammonia:0 nitrite:0 nitrAte: 20 :D

I'm going to do a water change today, as Mondays are fish tank cleaning days. Uno has been hanging out at the bottom but swims around at night and early morning, so I am going to assume that this is normal for him. He has always been kind of quiet during the daylight hours. I'm still feeding metromed and will continue for 14 days (or longer until feces start looking normal. They still are stringy and white). I also got the probiotics "jump start" to give after the metromed. I am going to treat again with the PraziPro in the next few days as a last treatment (meds just came in the mail).

Dave, you got a new car? That is cool! What kind is it? I hope you are enjoying your new car. I'll keep you posted as to how things are going. Talk to you soon!

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Oh! I forgot to ask: When do you think I can start "vacuuming" the gravel in the tank? I added in the second Biospira on 4/25. Should I wait at least a month before I vacuum the gravel? I have been doing water changes when needed. Thanks for you help!

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Vacuum half the gravel this week, then the other half next week, and you should be good to go for weekly vacs thereafter!

Glad things are improving!

I treated myself for my 53rd birthday to a kiddie car:

s2000_right.jpg

It's a Honda S2000 2-seat drop-top sports car :-) I'm finally old enough for one :-)

Dave

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Guest SminiFish

Hey Dave, that is a really cool car! And Happy Birthday! :happyb I noticed on your bio that your birthday was yesterday. Sorry my birthday greetings are a bit belated. I hope you had a wonderful birthday!

Well, we may be back to square one again. :( Now both Uno and Cajun are hanging out at the bottom of the tank. The weird thing is that pH is 7.4, ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0, and NitrAte is 20. I called Rick at Goldfish connection again yesterday and he suggested that I treat the tank again with Prai-Pro for a week. So I started yesterday and will continue for another week. Wish us luck! I'll keep you posted.

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Susan,

Sounds like a good plan to me - let us know how they progress. It does sound like your water chemistry is holding well, so now it just a matter of getting them over the parasite hump. The Prazi Pro and metromed should definitely be of benefit.

And trust me, after what we've been through I understand what a setback feels like. Hang in there you're doing great!

And thanks for the birthday wishes! I'm at the point where I try not to count :-) And no speeding tickets so far. lol!

Dave

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Guest SminiFish

It is so weird...Uno sits on the bottom of the tank all day long like he is on his death bed and then in the evenings, he perks up and swims around a bit. We are on day 2 of the Prazi-Pro.

Thank you Dave for the words of encouragement and support with Uno and Cajun. It means a lot. Sometimes I look at Uno and think that maybe he is dying. I know that I am doing all I can for him right now-just have to take it day by day.

I bet your new car is so much fun to drive! Has the weather been nice enough to drive around with the top down? Convertibles are so much fun and Hondas are great cars. Sounds like you had a wonderful b-day.

I'll keep in touch and let you know how things are going. Talk to you soon.

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Susan,

Yes it was warm and sunny yesterday, so the top was down! Car has a great heater, so low temperatures are no excuse to leave the top up - but rain is!

I was within minutes of putting Dory down several times. Just keep doing what you are, and then it is up to the fish and his Creator. You are doing everything that can be done, I think. If Uno decides to give up, he'll let you know - you just have to trust in that. Sounds to me like he's a fighter, tho.

Good luck, hang in there and keep us informed.

Dave

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Guest SminiFish

I just don't know if the Prazi-Pro is doing anything. We are on day 4 of the medication and no changes in Uno. He still sits on the bottom of the tank for most of the day. At night, he perks up a bit when I feed, but he's not to crazy about the metromed-eats a few bites and that is it. I guess his willingness to eat is a good sign, though. I'll continue to treat through the weekend. Any idea what might be going on with Uno?

Dave, glad to hear you are enjoying your new car and that the weather is sunny and warm. It has been raining here this weekend in "sunny California", but the weather really has been strange here lately. Hopefully the sun will come back soon! Take care and I'll talk to you soon.

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Susan,

I don't know what to tell you, I'm going to see if one of the more experienced actual Moderators can have a look, here. I've never used PraziPro, and am not familiar at all with it.

Cajun is still doing fine, it's just Uno at this point?

Dave

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Hi, Dave asked me to take a look and see if I can help at all.

Since your thread is mighty long, let me know if I have skipped over anything.

Now since you had such bad water conditions I would be inclined to think this is what is still having an affect on the fish. Rick, while very good and knowledgable...........I don't know if I would've started treating for flukes until the water had been stable and the nitrates under control for 3-4 weeks. But since you are in the treatment already I would go ahead and finish it.

I believe that you could be seeing just ill, lasting affects of poor water for a long period of time. Once the water got under control, the nitrates shot up and kept everything out of balance still. That can too have lasting symptoms in fish.

So I would finish the prazi and then keep the water top notch and only have salt to a 0.1% see if that helps.

Often when water causes problems we jump in trying to help with meds and such only to make things worse.

So rule of thumb is when you have thrown a lot of meds and stuff into a tank and the fish isn't getting better. Stop all meds and run clean water (params perfect) for 2-4 weeks to see if that was actually compounding the problem.

I guess sort of like what Dave's Dory was doing towards the end, she needed out of treated water and into normal water.

I also wouldn't worry about the white stuff just yet. As I have said, water can do all kinds of things to fish.........good and bad.

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Guest SminiFish

Thank you Dave and Laurie for your help and advice!

Laurie, it is interesting that you mention that the meds can sometimes do more harm than good. Uno seems to be at his worst immeadiately after I medicate the tank with the Prazi-Pro, i.e. very lethargic, not moving, etc. I will continue through the treatment (Tuesday will be the last day for treatment) like you mentioned in your post and then keep the water in tip top shape. NirAtes seem to be staying down lately, so this is good.

On a good note, Uno seemed to be a bit more lively today and was swimming around a bit, although he is still hanging out at the bottom of his tank most of the time. I will keep you informed as to how he is doing. Talk to you soon!

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