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Sick Common?


parkerdt

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Thanks Laurie :-)

I guess the only other course would be to switch her from Epsom salts to regular salt, and I would feel uncomfortable attempting that right now. I doubt she's up to that challenge yet, either.

I'll start another round of PC if I see any more flashing, scratching. My only resistance to PC is that it is supposed to be in for 48 hours, and I really don't want to go that long without a water change at this point for Dory.

Dave

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Dave one of the others also suggested that the flashing could be because of the hospital tank.........meaning the water. If the ammonia is begining to rise this could also cause it.

And I agree at this point reg salt is not a good idea to switch her too.

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Scraped down the brown algae, did a 60% water change after measuring between .25 and .5 ammo. Zero nitrite. This is about what I have been seeing 24 hours post every big water change- no real difference. So tonight I'll do another 60% change in a few hours, and make sure to use some extra Prime in the morning. Maybe this is why she's more active after a water change; it drops the ammo. But another cycled tank is out of the question until the main finishes, which is probably a week or more away.

Nemo at 48 hours is 0 ammo, .25 nitrite, so he'll stay on 48 hour changes - seems to be working OK. He also gets one tonight.

Dave

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I think we have another issue here, as well. While Dory eats the metromed, she does not really like it. But she's always been good about eating, without overeating; thet is Nemo's department. So, I tried a little experiment, soaked a few Nutrafin flakes in water so they would sink, and you would have though there was a piranah in the tank attacking meat. I have not seen her move that fast in weeks.

Hopefully the ProGold will be here soon and she will like it.

Dave

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Dory's second water change done. Nemo's water change done. Whew. Ammo unmeasurable, I did not test nitrites since they were 0 before. Prime for everyone.

Looks like I've got to get Dory's tank cycled, eh?

Dory more active as usual after the water change.

Good Night All :-)

Dave

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Nemo's tank tonight 24 hours after water change:

Ammo:0

NitrIte: 0

NitrAte: 10

Dory's tank tonight before water change, 24 hours after 2 60% changes:

Ammo: .25

NitrIte: 0

NitrAte: 5

Off to change Dory's water.

Dave

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Dory has been off meds for 5 days now and seems to be holding her own. She looks great, but her activity level is low. She's eating pretty well if I sink flakes for her, she'll swim over and get them out of the water column, and she grazes when she wants to. Skin and scales are healing nicely and improving noticeably day by day.

Given that she's more active during a water change (and I temperature match by mixing hot and cold buffered RO water while watching the thermometer); and the fact she likes the cooler stream of water, I'm wandering if it is time to try and start lowering her tank temp? She and Nemo have always lived at 72 degrees, but she's been at 80 degrees for the past month. In the past, they both would get sort of lethargic at higher temps (like in the summer if the AC went out and the house got hot, thus warming the tank).

Advice, please :-)

thanks,

Dave

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Dave that is up to you. I think that you have a pretty good grip on what is going on.

It may help to do this while she is still eating med food.

If it were me, I may try only 1 or 2 degrees and hold that for a week or better. See what happens.

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Thanks Laurie,

I went down 1/2 degree this morning. So far no issues. I was figuring on trying 1/2 degree about every three days, seems to me that is close to your 1 degree a week, right? Or is there something special about 7 days without change?

On the med food - too late, I think. The ProGold came today, and she's snarfing it up. Nemo went crazy for it as well - but I will try and put her back on it if you think I should.

The UV sterilizers came as well. Put the first one on Nemo's tank to see what it will do. Was very easy to install, thank goodness :-)

Dave

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BTW, I do have Nemo at 75 degrees, and he's OK there. He was fine in the main at 76 before I moved him to his temporary tank. So I'd be happy over the next month to get Dory at 76, if she can tolerate it. Just the 1/2 degree seems to have helped - she's more active tonight. I may go ahead and go down 1/2 more to 79 and then just wait a week. Will play that by ear during the water change tonight.

Dave

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Sounds Good!!! Sorry I forgot she was already on normal food.........her poor ordeal has been going on for so long I got confused!!! ;):wacko:

I hope she does good.

As far as I know there is nothing special about 7 days.......just a good time frame for them to acclimate to the new temp.

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Wow - what a difference. 1/2 degree lower, and food she likes - Dory is swimming around the tank almost normally for the first time in a month. She's still resting a good bit of course, but it is more hovering near the bottom than actually sitting on the bottom. If she'll really continue to eat the ProGold like she did tonight it is out with all the flake and the other commercial pellets I have. I am going to feed ProGold exclusively now, for a bit, since they've both been on Metromed for 32 days, if that sounds good.

I never thought I'd get excited by fish poop, but Dory actually finally had a normal, very thick and dark poop tonight.

I think Dory is improving. :-)

Dave

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LOL! Fish poop! ;-) :exactly

I think Dory is quite stubborn and remarkably resilient; Laurie. We've still got a long way to go, though, and I am sure you remember how slowly she responds, sometimes. But at least she is responding!

And you know what? I, too, for the first time tonight, think she just might survive this, if I can successfully tailor our actions to her needs. We'll fight the "getting off Epsom Salt" battle at some point, too. Right now, based on what I have seen getting her down to 79 degrees (yes, we did another half degree tonight), I *think* I'd rather keep her on full salt until we get her down to 78 after another week. Or, perhaps I should do temp one week, salt lowering one week? What do you think?

Dory and I are forever in your debt, no matter the final outcome, and we do thank you, Laurie. We'd not be here tonight without your sage advice.

Dave

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Thank you Dave, your words are so nice!! It is my pleasure to help you and Dory. :)

You have an interesting point on alternating the salt and temp theroy. I haven't heard of anything to the contrary or to reinforce one over the other.

It might be a good idea to do this. Eventually it all will get to normal, for that is the goal...............I wonder if it would work better to alternate?????? Hmmmmm.

You could try it, I would be very interested to hear how it goes if you choose to do it this way.

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Dory is doing well today! Swimming nicely, still resting in large spurts, but hovering as opposed to sitting, most of the time. Periods of normal activity increasing, and eating like a little piggie - she LOVES the ProGold. She's at 78.5 degrees since that is where we were after last night's water changes. No more changes for a bit. Still at full salt.

Only one worrisome thing - on her right side (which was by far the worse) she seems to have a little thing that looks like a zit with a whitehead, about to burst.

What do you think this is?

As we discussed earlier, I started a second round of PC on her tonight, but I am not sure what to do after her water change tomorrow, since PC is usually a 48 thing with a 25% water change, followed by another dose. I have to change 60%, only way to control the chemistry. So I'm thinking I should add back mebbe 1/2 of the PC after tomorrow's change?

2nd UV sterilizer is on in Nemo's tank, can't see much difference yet, but the water is still stirred up from gravel vac. Used the 2nd because there was a small leak in the first one which I needed to fix with some teflon tape. Nemo's tank has it's back accessible, so I want to get the units both working right before I install on Dory's tank where a leak would be hard to detect, and the thing will be a pain to get off once installed. I'm impressed with the quality of these units - seem much nicer than some of the UVs I have for my saltwater tanks.

I'll wait on Dory until the PC is done to put in her UV. And the "Algae on River Rock" that you warned me about hit Nemo's tank today. My battery powererd gravel vac did a decent job on it, but not super. Still, this is the first time since I moved him that I vac'd, so I hope it will improved as I settle into a routine. His water chemistry is doing fine with 48 hours changes, now. Tomorrow, I'm going to change the floss in his filter, yank the carbon, and do a PC on him, too, just to be safe.

Main is cycling away, according to the ammonia badge, I'll probably do some real chemistries on it tomorrow just to see where we are. I'm expecting another week or two, which is fine since Nemo is on salt with 3 weeks to go...

thanks,

Dave

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Dave, I just wanted to let you know that i have literally fallen off my computer chair with exhaustion after just reading this post, let alone thinking about all thw work you have done to help your fish!

You are an AMAZING fish dad and I am very impressed. I don't think I can ever complain about my 3 times a week changes on my overstocked 20 gallon again without feeling very guilty thinking of you!

I just wanted to say GREAT JOB and I hope your fish continue to improve, that your tanks cycle with ease and that your fish become more of a leisure activity than a full time job!

:goodjob

P.S. Cherry, the largest fish in the picture below, thinks Nemo is a cutie! :heart

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Aw shucks, Jen, thanks! I did want to try and save Dory; and as you see she's doing better - not out of the woods yet, - but clearly better. My main motivation was to learn a lot so the next time anything like this happens I will be better prepared and know what to expect, and can catch it sooner. Since it was my ignorance with the UGF that was a major contributor, I have felt all along I owed it to Dory to do everything I could. We've been fortunate to get good help here, and fortunate that we had most of the extra equipment we needed readily at hand.

As to Dory's white zit from yesterday, this seems to have completely resolved this morning, I am guessing it was one of the "blisters" that she gets when a new scale is coming in. She slept in the water column without being on the bottom last night for the first time in what seems like forever, and was up and ready for breakfast when the lights came on today. One tough fish :-)

Dave

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Nemo is 72 hours from his last water change -

Ammo: between 0 and .25

nitrItes :0

nitrAtes: 10

I think this tank is finally cycled!!!!!

He's still got some white stringy poop, so I am going to start him on round 2 of PC tonight after his water change and removing the carbon, and leave the UV running.

It is a real blessing that his tank is cycled enough to allow for water changes every 3 days....

Main is coming along!! You all will laugh at these params:

Ammo: between 4 and 8

NitrItes: Between 5 and 10

NitrAtes: Between 40 and 80

Guess I went a little heavy on dosing the ammo, but the BioSpira is obviously doing its job. All params were 0 when I started the cycle, so I've got both types of good bio bugs kicked off. Hooray!

Dory looking and acting the same, I suspect the improvments will come more slowly for her, now, but she's come a LONG way, and has a right to be a little tired.

Another normal poop, lots of swimming, came to the surface when fed tonight, ate well, etc. I could not ask for much more from her at this point, I don't think. Another few days, and we'll either try and reduce the Epsom salts or temp a bit more. She's definitely liking the cooler temp, and the ProGold. I am planning to give her 1/2 dose of PC tonight since I have to do a 60% water change on her tank.

Best news of the day, my add-on RO filter came in, and once I get it installed, I acn make 120 gals of water per day instead of the current 60 gal. That will help!

Dave

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P.S.  Cherry, the largest fish in the picture below, thinks Nemo is a cutie!  :heart

505914[/snapback]

I took my laptop in near Nemo's tank with Cherry's pic displayed as large as I could make it. Nemo was quite excited, and invites Cherry to come over for a date once he gets out of QT and back in his main tank. He was quite fascinated. :-) Obviously he thinks Cherry is a hottie. :-)

Dave

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:lol: Dave you make me smile!!! Nemo and Cherrie huh??? Poor Dory I guess that just means if she makes it then you'll be getting her a boyfriend...........one can never have too many gf!! :rofl Just kidding..

Still pleased to hear she is doing well. Don't really know what the white zit thing was.....but as long as it resolved I wouldn't worry either.

And yeah that main tank's ammonia would freak anyone out. Hopefully anyone who reads of it has read the whole thread and doesn't think that the fish are in there!!! :yikes:lol:

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Laurie, I agree, I don't think any fish would like living in that main tank at the moment. But I was happy to see that I have nitrItes and nitrAtes, and that the cycle is progressing. I did do a 25% change on it this morning to bring the nitrAtes down a bit, no sense in growing huge amounts of algae in there :-)

Nemo is not all that discriminating when it comes to Lady fish :-) I'm sure he'll be most happy if Dory can live with him again.

Both seem well this morning. Dory's endurance is a little better every day.

Dave

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Nemo and Dory are doing well today. Still on PC treatment and their water chemistry is holding fine - thank goodness it is not like Maracyn! Dory has been an absolute pig - begging for food any time I am near the tank. She wrangled 3 meals out of me today. Nemo never has a problem eating :-) Hopefully this round of PC along with his new UV and another 14 days of metromed will get rid of his bugs, haven't seen a poop today, but yesterday he did have a long white stringy one. Dory is more interested in her surroundings daily, and is regularly coming up to the surface. I wish she'd stop spitting at me, tho. :-) I did hit her tank with some BioSpira since the carbon is out at the moment for the PC treatments. She continues to produce about .25 ammonia per day in her 30 gal.

No nitrites and very little nitrates, as I would expect with all the water changes. No measurable ammo in Nemo's tank tonight, no nitrites, and nitrates at 10. He's growing some major brown algae, so I'll get out the scraper tomorrow, and do a gravel vac before his water change. The UV has definitely cleared up his water a lot, and hopefully, that is why he had a little ammo last night, decomposing dead stuff from the UV. We continue to monitor that closely. His behaviour has returned to normal, no more darting and flashing at all.

Main continues to cycle, ammo badge is almost down to yellow which is not bad considering yesterday's readings. I gave it a BioSpira boost as well, and plan to do another full chemistry on it tomorrow to check progress.

Laurie, as my main is 58 gallons; I might just have room to squeeze in ONE more fish after everything settles down. WAY too soon to think about that, but I think I'd get as big a calico comet as I could find if we did add a third. Of course, if Dory cannot come off the salt and has to stay by herself, I will certainly have to get Nemo a companion. But all that is down the road.

Dave

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