Jump to content

Sick Common?


parkerdt

Recommended Posts

  • Regular Member

She got a 48 hour break between the second Maracyn2 and the start of the second Maracyn, because I, too, thought she needed a break. Today is her second day on Maracyn so she'll be all done by this weekend. They are both on metromed exclusively, and I do not intend to change that. They both get the second PC round tomorrow after a 25% water change for each. Nemo's tank chemistry is holding steady! And Nemo is doing much less darting and flashing. Makes me wonder if this was parasite induced all along - but Dory was too weak I think to have done the PC treatment without the constant water changes and the antibiotics we've been doing. After all she did not start to shrink at all until we started the second round of M2 a week ago Sunday, if you recall.

I certainly am in no rush to move her - not after what we have been through. Let the main tank get good and cycled while we see what she will be able to tolerate. The setup we have now is workable for as long as necessary - I can even get good access to the new marine tank to do work. So there is absolutely no rush.

Main drained and refilled, filters loaded with biomedia, airstone ring installed, buffered and ready to start cycle tomorrow! I will not miss hauling 60 gallons of water up from the basement in 2.5 gal jugs - at least we get a bit of a break from that! Plenty of water at the ready for tomorrow's changes - may even get to make some saltwater for the marine tanks. We're getting the routine down.

Thanks again for checking on us on your Birthday, and glad you had a good day!

Dave

Edited by parkerdt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 250
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Regular Member

Good I don't think I would do anything until a week past the finishing of the Maracyn. Let her get a good grip on being med free.

Thanks again for the well bday wishes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thanks Laurie, understood and will do, hopefully she'll be able to come off the meds and we can try some of this. She looks great today, all scales flat, and 90% shrunk back to normal size, but I am worried about her activity level; her not quite level swimming (listing a tad to the left - not a lot just a tad...) and worried about going 48 hours between water changes with the PC. So the second PC treatment may be cut a bit short for her in order to do a water change tomorrow as well. She's so much more alert and active right after a water change, that skipping it is nervewracking.

Nemo got his second round of PC and is at 2 tsp/gal of salt. One thing about this river rock, it does make a louder noise when he spits it against the glass :-) His tank chemistry again looked good, going 2 days on a 25% water change is no longer a problem in that tank, thank goodness :-). Of course I will continue to monitor it daily for a while. I assume I'm now finished with the PC after 2 doses, 48 hours apart, right? Tomorrow, he'll be at full salt and we keep him there for a month.

Ammonia in the main up to 5, and BioSpira in, cycle baby cycle! From what I have read and experienced in fishless cycles, I should start to see nitrites in 3-5 days. Took 2 full teaspoons of ammonia to get to 5 - sheesh - that seems like a lot! But I want a good, complete cycle this time around so we don't have to repeat this last month's fiasco.

thanks,

Dave

Edited by parkerdt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Still looking good.

I have been thinking about Dory. If she does so well with water changes and gets sluggish without one then she may be suffering a bit from all the meds. Just something to think about. Often when we are treating something we tend to continue even to the detriment of the fish. For meds are so hard on them. If she continues this behavior I would strongly think about giving her a couple day break of all meds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Laurie,

I am 3 days into the Maracyn - would you advise stopping it now? I thought it had to go the full 5 days? Whatever the answer, this is her last meds, other than the food, and she will have to pick it up on her own from here. I realize this may not be possible for her, but I realize as well that she can't stay on meds forever. And I also know how many times she has surprised us. ;-) Truth be told, at first I never thought she'd survive the first night in the QT - much less a month.

Dave

Edited by parkerdt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

It is a tough call, I would try and finish the treatment but it does worry me that she is trying to get better but the meds may be getting to her.

Sorta like 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other. I think you are doing great, at this point playing it by ear is the way to go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

One other interesting observation - she seems more comfortable with her light off.

I only have a 25 watt on her tank, rather than her usual 96 watt, but she still prefers it darker. I get this way myself when I'm on antibiotics, so I'm going to give her less light time for a while. The 2nd PC dose will have been in 24 hours tonight, and it really needs to be in for 48 as I understand it. But if I have any concerns when I get home and measure her water params, I am going to do a water change and put carbon in and stop the Maracyn. If she's still doing OK ( and she was doing well this morning), and eating well, I would like to try and finish the Maracyn and let the PC be in for its recommended time. That would mean water change and last Maracyn dose Friday evening, and carbon in and meds out Saturday evening.

I think you've hit it on the head - she is obviously trying to get better, and that is most important, :-) I will try and get a picture of her tonight, because she's really looking good again.

Nemo's continuing to do well, and his flashing has stopped.

The main tank ammo was down to 3 (from 5) already this morning! At least I know I have a good batch of BioSpira; will start testing for nitrites on it tonight if the ammo has gone even lower by this evening. It's going to be a quick cycle if it continues like this - looks like I'll have to do another ammonia seeding sooner rather than later.

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Dory was looking pretty good tonight - scales still all flat, and back to her normal size. Swam eagerly for her food. So I compromised - gave her a 60% water change, and the 4th Maracyn dose. The PC will be less effective, but hopefully the salt has already done most of the PC's work, in any case. Will make a decision on the last Maracyn dose tomorrow night, but water change is a definite.

Turned on her light when I got home, and she was swimming well, she just tires easily. Ate well, as usual.

Nemo has totally rearranged his river rock to his liking. Personally, I like it to slope a little fom front to back, Nemo prefers just the opposite :-) He's doing well, I think, and the darting and flashing has not returned. Tank measured 0 A 0 NI 10 NA. Seems a 48-hour schedule is OK on his tank, now.

Main tank had gone from purple to just slightly green on the ammo badge- socked it back to purple. I did not have the energy to do a full chemistry on it - was a long day at work. Grow bugs grow :-)

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Dave tell Nemo, go right ahead and make his tank to his liking you don't have to "swim" in it!! ;):lol:

Too funny!

I have found that mine too like the light off while on the Maracyn...........I guess I forgot that. Been a while. I guess just like that they too can be sensitive.

I am so pleased to still have good reports from you. Dory and Nemo have a wonderful Owner to stick all this out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thanks, Laurie,

As I have said before, when we got them, I think I signed on to do the best I could to care for them and keep them safe and happy. We failed in that, which caused the original problem a month ago. Hopefully, our redoubled efforts will make a life-saving difference for Dory, and if not, we have learned a HUGE amount for the next time. I think we are at the point where Dory has a real shot, IF she can take over the hard work of healing and strengthenning - we are support staff now. I feel good that she's back to normal size and unpineconed.

Nemo is just a big, powerful, boy, and he's gonna be just fine. I thought with river rock I might have a chance, but nope :-) You are right, it is HIS tank. He knows it, too.

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

In re-reading your post, Laurie, I think I need to comment further.

I have come to the conclusion that Dory simply has an amazing will to survive. As I said early on in this, I'll stick with her as long as she wants to fight. Anything less would be disrespectful. She has come so far that I am not about to count her out.

Given what Nemo has experienced, I do tend to think that the origin of this was parasitic, contributed to by the bad water after the overfeeding incident, exacerbated by the undergravel filter. That would explain why she took so long to start shrinking - the salt was taking care of the parasites, while the antibiotics were merely preventing secondary infection. But, this is just a guess, obviously.

She could die tonight, but I rather think that given time and continued careful care, she's got enough spunk to have a legitimate shot at making it all the way back. Again, time and the good Lord will tell. but I am going to do my part without fail.

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Dave, I think your speculation is probably right on. While we may never know, it is safe to say you have a pretty good grip on things and a quick wit to work things out.

Give my best to Dory and Nemo.......and of course you. ;)

Let me know how this weekend fairs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thanks, Laurie ;-)

Dory and Nemo both looking good tonight. Nemo's poop back to normal color and consistency. Dory a little more active, so I decided to give her the last dose of Maracyn after her water change. As usual she ate well. Lights off during most of the day agrees with her, atm. She was up swimming around in the darkness this morning at 6am when I came down, doing the "feed me" dance.

Do you think that after 28 days now of metromed, it would be useful to switch them to medigold for 30 days, see if the different drugs help more with what we suspect the problem is, or stick with the metromed?

Also, I think some of Dory's lethargy may be due to being in 80 degree water. She was raised and lived at 72 degrees, and I've noted when we blend the 82 degree water from the mixing tank with the 70 degree water coming up from the basement, she will swim over and stay under the cooler stream. I know we don't want to mess with her environment for at least another week, but we might discuss trying to lower temps some before lowering salt, if you think that is reasonable.

Thanks, and have a great weekend! I'll report in, it is nice to have others who care to talk to! And all the good folk here have certainly helped a great deal in getting to where we are today. :-)

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Dory is off all meds! 30 mins after putting carbon in her filter, she's more active than she's been all week. Can't wait to see how she'll be after tonight's water change, which we're in the middle of. Gave the tank a good gravel vac as well.

Dory is looking almost completely normal, and has also stopped listing, and is swiming with much more authority. Hopefully these are all good signs.

I guess the next few days with her off meds (apart from the metromed and Epsom salt, of course) will tell the tale. So, we wait and watch.

Nemo's water change today was uneventful, and he's had a series of normal looking poops, though he had a white stringy one earlier this evening. Continuing to resist darting and flashing; hopefully the PC took care of his problem.

Dave

Edited by parkerdt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Dave I would keep her on the metromeds for the next week just to ensure that she is doing good. After that as long as she is still doing well I would just stop the med food. I wouldn't bother switching to the medigold, I would ease her back onto normal food. Of course with a day of fasting and a day of peas would be good. Clean her out real good so to speak.

After that then I think we can talk about reducing the temp and or the salt. Have a good rest of the weekend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Water change done, salted and buffered; with the carbons, meds should be gone. I swear Dory is doing a happy dance. We'll see how it goes from here, but the initial reviews are quite positive.

Of course in the absence of meds, her tank is going to start a cycle big-time, so we will watch it very carefully.

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Laurie,

Normal food - lol I am not sure I even remember what that is :-) We'll see how the week goes, and I'll order some Pro Gold from Rick, I think. It is funny, but both she and Nemo come to the surface expecting to be fed, even after a month; and, since they are commons, I've read this is not the problem that it can be with fancies. So, I dunno.

Fasting for a day and some peas sounds good - Nemo loves peas. Dory is not so sure, but she was quite ill last time she tried them.

What do I need to be watching for with Dory now? I know we'll still be doing water changes daily until I can get her tank cycled, but I also would like to know what can still hit us so I can be prepared.

I gotta tell you, Laurie, I am just so pleased at Dory's desire to hang in there. She's the one making all this good stuff happen, not me. A fully pineconed fish alive and improving at 30 days is pushing the envelope, from everything I've read, but we are thankful to be where we are. And we are grateful to you for walking us through this, step by step and holding our hand and fins.

Dave

Edited by parkerdt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest kscoleman

Wow Dave, what a good fish dad! I just read the W H O L E post. What an ordeal. Hope all continues to go well for your buddies.

I lost a couple of Goldies 5 years ago because of an undergravel filter failure. Never realized there would be junk under there and when I started it up awhile later after I got a new air pump (I had a Whisper on there too) my tank turned red with debris-very bad fish moment. Although it has horrible, it was the beginning of me becoming a serious fishkeeper. During this crisis I was informed about the Nitrogen cycle and that was probably the best thing that ever happened.

I am with you, if you take them from a natural enviroment, you owe them your time and money when and if they need it. They are totally dependant on our care.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thanks - :)

Yes, this had been quite an ordeal, and obviously the outcome is not clear at this point.

I had always thought freshwater tanks were somehow easier than saltwater, but I've never had a disaster like this or any sort of cycle crash in my reef tanks. The live rock in a reef tank is a wonderful medium for good biobugs, so we don't even use any sort of bioballs or ceramic rings at all - the filter is mechanical media only.

And we have skimmers which take out the organic junk, and help with nitrates.

I rarely have to do a water change on my reef tanks these days - once a month 25% is more than sufficient to keep the chemistry in good shape.

As you have read, my recent experience with GF in freshwater has been a little more, shall we say, "labor intensive". But I am learning, as well.

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Dave I think the Progold is the way to go. NOt only will it not be too much of a change for her but will sink. And even though commons don't usually have SBD problems.............there is always an exception. And I think once a fish has had such a serious problem as Dory has, it is safe to expect her to have this type of difficulties thru out her life. That way you can avoid them.

She is a trooper, and you are so right in saying that to see her alive and doing well after all this if an atribute to you and her.

Dropsy has such an ingima to it........but in truth if caught is very much treatable, with hard work and patience. But those are 2 things that have to come into play. As well as the fish's immune system and "heart". They have to want to live.

What you should be watching for is just what you have been. Any changes in her behavior, appearance or your gut that "something may be up". Since you have been thru this you are "intune" with it, so at the first hint of your gut saying..........."hey something ain't right" jump on it. With increasing the salt back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thanks Laurie,

I have ordered the Progold.

We have some good new and some bad news today. Dory is more active, and not reacting negatively to the lack of meds and the presense of carbon. When she decides to go for a swim, she's able to do it more purposefully.

However, she's flashing, and I saw one dive to the bottom to scratch herself on the gravel. I guess this means we still have a parasite problem. So what now?

I've ordered one of the small UV units from Rick for her tank, but I'm thinking we're going to have to do more PC treatments. Suggestions, please?

thanks,

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I will have to check around. I'm not sure if epsoms kills parasites or not. If not then we may have a problem switching her over. But we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

If she has been med free since Sat, it is most likely safe to do a couple PC treatments on her tank. PC is a realitively safe med that can be used with any salt. What do you think about that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Laurie,

I have not seen a repeat of the flashing yet, (just the one episode) but I do have PC at the ready. I did two treatments of PC last week, the last of which was cut short by Wednesday's water change. I guess I'd like to wait until Wed for another treatment, since I think that is what the instructions for PC say; however, if I get any further indication of this behavior, in will go the PC. I'm burning through carbon - in, out, in, out - LOL. At least it is relatively cheap.

Dory was up to greet everyone this morning before sunrise, and before the tank lights even came on. She seems happier off the meds, for sure, but she's going to have to build up her endurance. No trace of swelling at all and nice flat scales.

Hopefully the UVs will be here pretty quickly and help out, as well. Got one for Nemo's tank while I was at it - figure it can move to the main once that puppy is cycled. Nemo seems to have settled down after the PC, and is realizing he's stuck in his little 40 gal for a bit. Eating like a horse, and having no trouble grazing the river rock.

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Ok, since it has only been one episode of flashing we may be jumping the gun. (I know this happens to me when my dropsy fish did anything). Their health makes you nervous. So it could be just a "rubbing".

Keep me updated. Also about the UV's. I don't know alot about them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Dave, I have talked with 2 of our mods on the subject of epsom salts and parasites and in fact they don't do anything to them. So knowing you can't mix the epsom with reg salt we are left with using the PC with the epsom if you see her flashing more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...