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Sick Common?


parkerdt

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Thanks Laurie. I agree, and I am glad I did not give up on her last weekend. Every fish I've ever had that had died has done the upside downs, the swim in circles, etc. And Dory has never done any of these. Leads me to believe she's still got the will to live, so we'll do what we can and the rest is up to her and the good Lord. And I think some credit to the garlic for getting her to eat her metromed.

I am planning to use a 6th day of Maracyn2 - (last does in this batch) tomorrow, then give her carbon. All this improvement has come with the M2 and, since we are in uncharted waters anyway, why mess with a good thing?

I'm currently planning to do a full cycle of Maracyn after 24-48 hours on carbon in the filter, depending on how Dory reacts. Once all that is done, we can make an assessment on whether we try and reduce her salt and temp, but that is a week away; hopefully we'll get to make that decision.

Nemo's new temporary tank is cycling nicely, hopefully the nitrites will be zero by Saturday and I can move him this weekend. I'm pretty impressed with the BioSpira.

Dave

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Dave it is always a pleasure to hear from you and the "gang" of yours.

I have been thinking. I would like you to write up your "garlic" remedy for a research article for the site. I think it is an excellent idea and could help many. You do know about the research contest?

And I have heard great things about Biospira. Unfortunetly anytime I am cycling a tank (which is not often) there is none around. So I don't have first hand experience with it. Glad it worked for you.

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Be my guest, Laurie. I use the Kent Garlic Extreme, but there are other similar products. You can soak food in it, or add 1 drop per 10 gal directly to the tank. Both methods seem to work whenever I have a fish not eating. A little bottle should last forever, even with all my tanks this has lasted well over a year.

Nemo's new tank is at 0 Ammonia .25 Nitrites and between 10-20 Nitrates. Not bad - a 7-day cycle from a tank with 1+ Ammo, 0 Nitrites and 5 Nitrates. BioSpira to the rescue. Unfortunately my spare air pump is not working so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to move Nemo. I think 1 10" airstone in a 40 gal cube should be good for him, right? This move will give us some time to decide how we like the river rock; maybe use it in the main as we re-do it. At a minimum, I'm going to boil the gravel and bleach the tank.

Dory looking a little better each day - almost bact to normal activity level. Still a little bloated, but that is coming down daily now as well. Starting to grow some new scales!! Last day of M2 for her; I think I am going to give her a 48 hour break with carbon before starting a final round of Maracyn.

Dave

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Well, just when you think it is under control, it isn't - Nemo started flashing tonight, and rubbing his sides against gravel at the bottom, so I moved him, and used Prime and the air pump from the main tank.

Flashing is usually a parasite problem, tho, right?

Guess I will watch him closely and give him a Prazi treatment if this continues into tomorrow.

Dave

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Dave, thanks but I don't want to take credit for your "research". You can either write up and post it either in the tip of the month contest or the research forum.

Either one is great.

I really think it will help some out.

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Laurie, I do not have time to write it up - esp if Nemo doesn't feel better by morning. I do think it should be written up. You are welcome to do it, if you want to, I've got my hands full with 2 med tanks and a main to rebuild; might be a while before I get to it.

Dave

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Yeah I guess you are a bit busy! :lol:

I am not totally clear on it. Is this all there is?

~~~Be my guest, Laurie. I use the Kent Garlic Extreme, but there are other similar products. You can soak food in it, or add 1 drop per 10 gal directly to the tank. Both methods seem to work whenever I have a fish not eating. A little bottle should last forever, even with all my tanks this has lasted well over a year.~~~

And what exactly is this product.....Garlic Extreme? If you could shed a little more detail on it, I can write it up.

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Nemo is settling into his new tank and seems calmer this mornig. I guess at this point, I'll just observe him closely.

Dory continues to look a little better each day.

Now the fun part - get to tear down the main tank today and clean it for starting over. SO far Nemo seems to really like the river rock, so I think I'll go with that rather than trying to boil 60 lbs of gravel :-)

Laurie, the garlic I use is from Kent. It's labeled Kent Frash/Marine Garlic Extreme - Attractant and Food Supplement for Marine or Freshwater Fish. It comes in a 1 oz bottle, packaged inside a large plastic tube. It is 99% garlic juice with citric acid and Ascorbic acid making up the remaining 1% as preservatives. You should be able to get it at any fish store that carries Kent products, or Big Al's and other online retailers carry it.

The label says that is is a natural attractant for fish, and will help fish want to take food. It is very strong and fish are very sensitive to it, it is recommended to use only 2 drops to soak food beore feeding. It may also be added directly to the tank at the rate of 1 drop per 10 gals, which is how I use it.

In marine fish folklore, it is credited as an Ich preventative, and 2% garlic is added to some of the better commercial marine flake foods these days. Also, it is touted to be a natual boost to the immune system in general, so good to use on occasion as a tonic. I knowmy marine fish love it, and it has neverfailed to get a finicky one to eat, for me. And it sure worked to get Dory eating again. I'm using it in her tank still every third day, and am going to use it for Nemo while he's in the 40 gal as well. My Gold-Stripe Maroon Clownfish has always been a picky eater, and this stuff will get her to gobble even mysis shrimp which she usually will totally ignore.

I have tried pressing fresh garlic and straining the juice, but I always end up with too many solids, and it is difficult to dose properly. Since a bottle goes a very long way, I'm just going to stick with the Kent product. One of the best $10 investments I've ever made on fish stuff. I will warn you - the stuff stinks! :-)

Dave

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Good grief was that main tank ever gross - yuk!!! Unbelievable amount of junk under the undergravel - turned the water the color of strongly brewed tea. Got all the water out, gravel out, undergravel out, scrubbed the whole tank down with bleach solution. Boiling river rock for it now. Once the rock is in, I plan to run a 1:10 bleach solution in the tank for four hours, or maybe overnight depending on the time. Then we'll discard that water, refill. Then discard that and refill again, until we can't smell any bleach. Then, dechlorinator, and we'll start the thing cycling. Sound OK?

thanks,

Dave

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it did seem really strange to actually dump 5 gallons of bleach into a fish tank, but it's done, and circulating now. I hope no one will be too upset with me for using tap water in that tank this time. :-) Esp with 2 60-gal water changes tomorrow in it - I do think I'm going to have to cycle it with tap water, then switch to RO/DI before the fish move back in. The bleach is doing a number on the filter hoses - all sorts of junk came out when we restarted it. filter has no media other than sponges which will be discarded after this exercise is over. I am tired - that was a lot of rock to boil, but I think it looks GREAT in the tank.

Laurie, I'm a bit worried that the sinking food will sink into the rock crevices and teh fish won't be able to get it. Is this a problem?

At least Nemo can't get as much of this rock in his mouth as he could gravel. Sometimes, it seems like he had half the gravel in the tank in his mouth. And of course, he was constantly rearranging it. Maybe the river rock will stay put a little better.

Also, Laurie, any thoughts on Nemo's flashing yesterday? He did give himself a few scratches. Do you think I should throw some parasite treatment into his tank? I have the Jungle Parasite Clear on hand.

thanks,

Dave

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OK, the main tank is reassembled after an overnight bleach run, did two complete water changes today, I must say it looks 100% better with the sparkling water and river rock. I also added a second Fluval 405 cannister to get me close to 10x hour water turn-over, since the undergravel filter is gone. I'll let it run as-is a few days, then drain and fill with RO/DI water, and start up a cycle.

Dory and Nemo seem about the same today, Dory is having one of her less active days, but her pineconing is almost completely gone, she's shrinking more, and growing new scales. I am wondering if perhaps I should give Nemo some aquarium salt since he does still occasionally do the darts - not seen him do a side scratching on the bottom since he's been in the new tank.

What do you think?

thanks,

Dave

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Sorry I haven't kept up there Dave. We went out Sat and I took alot of time off yesterday from the site.

So I have catching up to do.

Glad to hear you got the ugf out. I can only imagine the filth under it!

And when you say you aren't sure if the gf can get the food between the crevis's do you mean with the river rocks? If so, yeah they can. Those little buggers can get food just about anywhere.

Thanks for getting me the info on the garlic. I will see what we can do to spread the word.

As for Nemo's scratching. I would go ahead and do a couple rounds of PC on him. Have you done that with him yet at all?

Hey, that Nemo is quite the looker!! Absolutly gorgeous if I may say! And I like your tanks, in the pic they look right next to each other are they?

Oh and salt for Nemo, that is a good idea.

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Thanks Laurie, I will do a few rounds of PC on Nemo just to make sure, I assume we're talking aquarium salt for him, how much and for how long? I've always thought he was a good-looking fish, and he is definitely a big boy - he's not real happy being back in a smaller tank. Like the rest of us, he'll just have to cope. :-)

Hopefully we'll get a good cycle going in the main tank over the next few days! The cycle in Nemo's iso tank is progressing, zero ammonia .25 nitrites last night. Just doing 25% changes for him so as not to disturb the cycle, and of course using Prime.

As to the tanks, yes the main is between two others that you can see. Dory is in the tank to the left, and the one to the right is the new reef tank I'm setting up. Nemo is in a 40 gal. sort of in front of the new reef tank; I was standing right in front of him when I took that pic. That main tank looks even better with water in it and the lights on, I really think we're going to like the river rock. And you're right, Nemo seems to have no problem vaccuming up his metromed from river rock!

Dave

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I hope that he gets is main tank back soon. Not sure how big he is but he looks massive and to be confined....well that is hard on them.

Sorry yes I mean aquarium salt. I would go to a 0.3% concentration (are you familar with this?) and run it for 30 days. It can be safe with the PC.

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I think you better give it to me in teaspoons or tablespoons per gallon, please, Laurie :-) And I assume I start off at 1/3 dose, and increase it gradually? Like every other day?? And replace with water changes.

Nemo is about 6"-7" (as you can see from the picture he does not hold still very well), and I'd estimate he is close to half a pound.

Dave

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He is a big boy!!!

The salt dose is 1 tsp per gallon of water for 0.1%. And yes increasing it gradually is the way to go. Only you can add the 2nd and 3rd doses in 12 hours intervals.

Hopefully that makes sense. If not let me know.

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Well Nemo's tank is cycled! zero ammonia and zero nitrites! So a small victory.

:-)

Took his carbon out and put in tthe first course of PC. If I understand the directions, I'm to do a second dose in 48 hours after a 25% water change. I'd rather wait on starting the salt til first thing after I get home tomorrow so I have more time to watch him...

Dory continues to shrink! Just a very few scales on the lateral line showing any pineconing at all. She does seem a little depressed that she can't see Nemo - on the other hand, seeing her and not being able to get to her was driving Nemo nuts, so I guess we'll call it even. She starts second round of Maracyn after her water change tonight.

Dave

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Right, that is what I remember the PC directions to be.

I am glad that it is cycled!!! WWoooohooo that has to be encouraging.

Dory sounds good too!!!

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Dory has good days and bad days just like we all do when we're recovering. On the whole, her progress in the last week is quite spectacular. Yesterday and today, she's seemed a bit less active, but when approached, readily swims around to greet you, and she really is at her best after water changes. I wish I had another cycled tank to put her in, but heck the Maracyn plays such havoc with the cycle (in spite of what they say) that I think it is just better we continue the 60% daily water changes.

I'm thinking that if Nemo really has some parasites then she, being sicker, probably picked them up as well, and thinking about giving her a course of PC as well, as a prophylactic if nothing else. Hopefully, her own immune system will kick back in at some point and we can stop the meds. For now, I'm just happy to see her getting smaller and less bristled and growing new scales. :-) Not to mention the fact that she's alive at all ;-)

Thanks again, Laurie, I'll start Nemo's salt ramp-up tomorrow. 30 days should be a generous time for the re-built main tank to cycle well, esp with all the bio media in there now.

Dave

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OK PC for both the med tanks, water change for Dory, still at full Epsom salts and 80 degrees.

Nemo at 76 degrees, in a cycled tank :-) and first dose of PC. Will start salt build up with aquarium salts on him tomorrow. 40 gal tank for Nemo, .1% would be 13 tablespoons plus a teaspoon if my math is right. Have not seen him flash since I moved him, but I'd much rather err on the side of caution after what we have been through. I'm just happy I had unoccupied tanks around.

Will drain main tomorrow for the last time and refill with RO/DI, install bio media and start it cycling.

thanks again, Laurie. :-)

Dave

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Happy Brirthday Laurie!

The other good news is Dory. She is almost completely unswollen today! All blisters gone, 2 scales on her left side still raised and the row right on the lateral line on her right side still raised. All other scales flat!! no more red marks, just healthy looking skin where new scales are growing in. I couldn't be more pleased with the improvment in her physical appearance! Hopefully, as the last course of Maracyn finishes, her activity level will start to pick up a bit as well. We shall see; but she definitely SEEMS to be getting better. Eating well, still resting a good bit, but swimming more normally than I've seen her in - what is it - almost a month now. No water change tonight for her or Nemo since they are both on PC and it needs to stay in 48 hours. So, we've got an opportunity (and enough water!) to put RO/DI water in the main and get it started cycling. Break out the ammonia and the BioSpira!

Laurie, if Dory continues to survive and improve, then we're going to need to discuss trying to get her off the Epsom salts, and on to aquarium salts, aren't we?

And perhaps even gettting her in a bit lower temp from her current 80 degrees?

We have plenty of time, if the main cycles like Nemo's tank it would be habitable in 8 days, but I'd rather have them both good and stable right where they are, and let the main cycle for at least 2 if not 3 weeks.... I do realize it may not be possible to ever move Dory back, but as far as she has come, I'm not ruling the possibility out, either.

Dave

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Dave I think that I wouldn't mess with Dory until at least 2 weeks past any med in the tank. I would keep the epsom at the same level until a week past the meds. Then decrease it by 25% if you can. Then wait a week to see if she can tolerate less.

When is she done with the Maracyn treatments? Hopefully soon. I think she is in need of a break from meds if possible. Keep on the med food though.

Yes, eventually we will tackle her and maybe getting her ready for "normal" tank life, but that is weeks away.

Thank you so much for my Bday wish, it was a great day.

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