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parkerdt

Sick Common?

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What a day. I tore down my 40 gal reef (which I am moving to a 60 gal, but had no water for) went and bought enough seawater to fill the new one, moved all my live rock and sand. Then cleaned the 40, filled 40% with fresh and a new heater and filter, and filled the rest of the way with Nemo's old water. Even remembered I had some extra river rock from my turtle set up, so Nemo will not have to go bare-bottom. Prime, RO Right, and buffer added. Gonna let it cook a day or two (will add BioSpira tomorrow), and then move Nemo. I've decided to do a fishless cycle on the main tank with ammonia. I've done this in salt water, so it is not new to me. Will move Nemo's current filter to the 40 when I move him, and move the new filter to the main. Whew - been a long day. And the new reef is not yet fully plumbed, so it's jury-rigged like crazy, but at this point all it really needs is heat and circulation, and that we have :-)

Dory has been noticeably animated all day, and ate well. Her tank is holding it's chemistry, so we'll do a water change tomorrow for her when we have enough water for a complete 50-60% change. Swelling is down more on her left side, but seems about the same on the right side.

The main tank - as I said I unplugged the powerheads running the undergravel filter last night - is just amazing - a HUGE algae bloom today; the glass is covered, and the water is appropriate for St. Patrick. There is now no doubt in my mind that this tank needs to be restarted. But there also seems to be less of a rush given the nitrates we generated in the last 24 hours - got to be some good biobugs in there. Whatever is under the undergravel must be what is playing heck with the chemistry in that tank.

So, we soldier on. :-)

Dave

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Walking back in my living room after the last post, it really is sort of comical how many tanks I have in my living room at the moment. And Nemo will have something he's never had - the light fixture for his soon-to-be iso tank has blue LED moonlights. :-)

Dave

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Dave do you only have 24 hours in your day.........'cause with all that I think you went over your limit. :lol:

Once again, I admire your dedication.

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Dedication? Heck most people would say I'm just too cheap to buy a new 19-cent common fantail. :-) Others might call me a tad stubborn. But, dang it, these guys are family members. Just as sure as I am sitting here, they KNOW when I walk by their tanks, and they KNOW who feeds them and changes their water. How can I possibly do any less than everything I can think of to try? It would be wrong to do otherwise I think.

I'm going to take Dory down to 1/2 max Epsom salt with tomorrow's change - she's definitely shrunk some today. So I'll be at 1/8 tsp for 5 gals after tomorrow's change. She's doing very little bottom resting tonight - rather, she's hovering a few inches off the bottom when she wants to rest, then, after those few minutes, she'll go swim for a few minutes. I'd say she's up to about 30% swimming 40% hovering, and the rest resting on the bottom - WAY better than a few days ago.

Nemo is still doing fine, but I want to get him into a known good tank ASAP. On the bright side, water changes in a 30 and 40 will take less water than in the current 30 and 58 :-)

And I have to compliment you, Laurie, the river rock looks darned good in a goldfish tank - would have never occured to me to use other than gravel.

Dave

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I like the look of the river rocks too. Now once the algae gets going you will think....yuck! But with no more "elbow" grease than to vacuum the gravel it will be like you just did it.

And if as many people treated our .19 cent gf like you or I, the world would be a better place. :)

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I like the look of the river rocks too. Now once the algae gets going you will think....yuck! But with no more "elbow" grease than to vacuum the gravel it will be like you just did it.

And if as many people treated our .19 cent gf like you or I, the world would be a better place. :)

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I'm afraid Dory has started her final decline. She's more pineconed today, and less active. Sort of a last ditch effort, I'm going to restart her on Maracyn-2 and bump the salt back up. If she's going to die, I really would prefer she die in her own tank, as comfortably as possible. But I have the oil of clove in reserve.

Dave

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And just when you think it is time to give up - after the water change, and with the salt raised, she's completely perky again. in fact from the anal fin back, she looks completely normal - flat and complete scales, and great color. Maybe she had a bad day - I dunno. Time will tell.

Dave

Edited by parkerdt

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Dave that is something isn't it.

Well as long as she is thriving from the meds and salt that is good. Maybe she is going to take longer. It is good that you are keeping the clove oil at hand, for this bouncing around doesn't bode well.

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Dory looks like a different fish today. Has shrunk some, and the pinceconing that was reappearing yesterday is today almost laying flat again. Very active and quite hungry - did her "feed me" wiggle when I got home. I guess she's not ready to come off the salt, yet. I'll report back on her later tonight if there is any change after water change, etc. I'll have her back up to a full 1/4 tsp per 5 gal

after tonight's change.

Nemo is still in the main tank - his new iso tank has only been up for 48 hours, and I used 60% of his old water, and BioSpira. Ammonia was over 1 in that water

and is now below .5 and nitrites are about .5. So it seems to be starting to cycle.

We're managing to keep Nemo's levels down with 60% water changes every other day, and I can make that much water comfortably, and still change Dory daily. So unless something radical happens in the old tank (and who knows, it might), I think I'd prefer to let the new one settle in for a few more days at least. If by some miracle, I got a decent cycle going in there, I think it would be beneficial to Nemo and to me. :-) Of course if something gets totally whacked out, I'll move him - temp and pH are fine, and the water is buffered, and I'm well stocked on Prime.

Dave

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Sounds real good.

You know, she may not be able to come off the salts. I know that in some cases the dropsy fish becomes so compromised that they can't adjust to normal life again. She may be one of them.

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Well, if that is to be, then so be it. I am so much more encouraged by her entire attitude tonight - got some of her sass back, and looks better than her previous best day which was Friday last week, a day after stopping the Maracyn. BAck up to full salt, and second day of round 2 of M2. She is eating tonight like a hog, and I am feeding her 3 sticks at a time, all the metromed she wants. This is one tough fish.

Can she survive in this concentration of Epsom salts (1/4 tsp per 5 gal) long term (assuming she survives at all)? Well, I suppose we can try another salt lowering cycle when the time comes and find out at that point what she can tolerate.

I have enough tanks to keep her salted the rest of her life if that is what is necessary. Of course, at some point I would like to get her into a cycled tank :-) All that is secondary at the moment, and I understand her chances are still quite low. But, after the last 24 hours, there is no doubt that this fish has not given up, yet. Last night at this time, I would have bet money she would not have lasted the night. I would have been wrong. Of course if I bet the other way tonight, I might be equally wrong come morning. So I will keep my expectations low. And I'll battle with her for as long as she wants to fight. I think she'll tell me if she's ready to quit.

Dave

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After lights out, and maintenance are done, I like to sit in the semi-darkness and watch Dory for a few minutes closely. Tonight, for the first time, she approached me in the relative dark, and again, did her food dance. She's had enough for one day, so I did not feed her again, but I did notice that, for the first time, her gills are completely unimpeded by her swelling. The swelling is not receding bilaterally in the same degree, she's still more swollen on the right side than the left, but it is definitely down on both sides. I do think she'll be losing some more scales from the events of the past few days, but it appears as if some replacements are coming in in the areas she shed last week, and their color is great. I don't really know how to describe it, but the new growth has the shine and sheen that you'd normally see, as opposed to the almost transparent and brittle look of the diseased scales.

I wish I knew what this all means.

Laurie, early on, you told me this was going to be a ferris wheel, it is much more like a roller coaster.:-) But we are approaching 3 weeks, and I think that is an accomplishment for Dory.

We both (Dory and I) owe you big thanks for holding our fins and hands to get to where we are today. We sincerely hope you'll hang in with us for the rest of this journey, wherever it leads us.

Dave

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Dave I am not planning on going anywhere. With you for the ride!!!

Dory is amazing fish, she sure sounds like a fighter. Do you have any pics you can post? I would sure like to see her and Nemo.

You can go to photobucket and post them and then link us.

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I have a pic of Dory from early on in this struggle earlier in the thread. I'll try and get one of Nemo up soon, and let you know.

Maeanwhile, I am afraid I'm neglecting him some during all this - do you think my plan to try and get his tank cycled before moving him is a good idea? I'd rather just fight ammonia that both ammonia and nitrites, both, I think. And if the BioSpira woirks as advertised, the nitrites should be 0 in another 4 days....

Thanks, and thanks for the support!

Dave

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Dory has several fluid-filled "blisters" (where she has lost scales on her right side) this morning. They are clear and rather bulbous. Anything I can do for these?

thanks,

Dave

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Not really DAve, just part of the process. It is a bit late in the game for these to be developing........but then again Dory seems to be doing this all along. I would just watch them closely.

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Yes, she seems to be going down the similar path that you wrote about in your dropsy thread a few years ago, Laurie, just more slowly. She's been really quite active today, swimming probably half the time, and hungry again today, as well. She looks like H**l, but the "blisters" are no worse tonight (no better either, really) , and where her scales are normal, they are almost all flat today. Behavior wise, a marked improvement since the weekend.

Nemo's iso tank is apparrently really cycling! Ammo down to .25, Nitrites at between 1 and 2 and Nitrates at between 20 and 40. When we started, it was Ammo 1, no nitrites and nitrates at 5. I suppose it's pathetic when you get excited by a a cycling tank, eh? If it goes like it is supposed to, he should be ready to move this weekend, and I can get to work on cleaning up and re-cycling the main tank. BioSpira seems (from this quite limited experiment) to work significantly better than Cycle. I think I will try it again when I redo the main.

Dave

Dave

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As an aside, and on the lighter side, I had a snow day today - I commute 65 miles each way, and work at home when the kid's school is closed. Got to spend some time with the reef fish other than just a quick water change and feeding, and they are all doing really well. :-)

Jerry, the Ocellaris clown (a real Nemo fish)

Shirley, a Gold Striped Maroon Clownfish

Bobby, a Green Chromis

PJ, Teddy and Night-Night - Pyjama Cardinals- the triplets

Fiona, a Royal Gramma

Laurie, a Coral Beauty Angel

Russ, a Kole yellow-eyed tang

With the exception of Shirley (who lives alone and who the new reef tank will be for - set up specifically to house an anemone for her to host with) they all live in a community 120 gal reef.

Thought everyone might like to meet the rest of the fish family since Dory and Nemo have been so well discussed here. ;-)

Dave

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Dave it is nice to "meet" the fishie family. And I see that you have a fish named Laurie, how cool!! ;)

I would watch Nemo's nitrites though, whew 1-2 is pretty high. It scares me that high. GF can so become ill with that. If you are able to do a change to lower it to under 0.5 I would feel a bit better. Of course not out of the woods but better.

Now I need to see pics of the family.

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Not to worry, Laurie, that's in his new tank that I am setting up - it's got a real cycle going! He's still in the main and getting regular water changes, I measure 0 nitrites there.

Getting pics of the marine fish is an exercise in futility. But I will try :-)

Dave

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And the best news of the day:

Dory is shrinking!!!!!!

The blisters are much better today, and I would say she's gone down in bloatedness by 30 to 50%. This is not a minor change! And much much more active, swimming most of the time and resting only occasionally! Finally gobbling her metromed like Nemo does!

Obviously, I'm pretty excited by this turn of events :-)

Dave

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I guess so, what a wonderful thing!! Yay!!

Hopefully she will continue on. Boy she is a stubborn fighter isn't she. :D

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She is as stubborn as the day is long, I think - has to be, to survive with Nemo who has always been a bit bigger and just slightly faster than she is. She's never missed any meals tho - always figures out how to get what she wants; when she's well she is stronger than Nemo and can push him out of her way. ;-)

More shrinking today. She's just about normally sized on a line running diagonally from the front of her dorsal fin to the rear of her pelvic fin. Just needs to lose some more from her front. Scales laying down even more, and blisters shrinking more - have to look closely to see them.

I have only two words to explain why she's seeming to respond to the second course of drugs after not responding to the first very much - Divine Intervention.

Not being a Vet, I have no decent scientific explanation at all. And while I am still not overly optimistic, I think there is room for perhaps a tiny bit of hope.

Dave

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Dave, Devine Intervention is the best!!! I will take that at any time it is given out!!

Hope is a good step. Usually the scales along the lateral line are always the last to lie flat.

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