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Lying At The Bottom Not Moving.


Kissy

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How are they this morning? You have tried Jungle Parasite Clear, haven't you? That's always a good first treatment for unknown parasites because it is gentle and has several meds in it that will kill several kinds of bugs. QC is the next treatment.

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Good morning becky :)

I woke up thismorning and saw them swimming all happilly. Mica the is acting so much better, and the redness at the base of her fins is gone. She was hungry, and following me around the tank. Odie has more energy too, but he still spent time at the bottom, clapping fins, and swimming sparrotically. I believe that the quick cure was either too strong for them, or that the .3% salinity was too much, so when I start again (I might wait until tomorrow instead) I'm going to do one more waterchange and then start with a 1/2 dose. What salinity would it be if it was .1% and I did a 30% waterchange with fresh water?

I did start off with parasite clear. I think that it helped with some symptoms and they seemed better, but not totally. After I treated popeye with maracyn, they started to get worse again.

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That's great! :heart

I was hoping that the water change would invigorate them.

Go slow and be careful with the QC. It is powerful stuff, but can do the trick when needed.

At 0.1% and changing 30% will leave you at about 0.07%. If you change 50% you would be at 0.05%. (two consecutive 30% changes-if you replace all the water after the first one- are equivalent to one 50% change). Pretty much gone, I would say.

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Good to hear that your fish are finally doing better, Kissy! :thumbup

Just a word of warning about QC - Ingrid from the Puregold list, as well as JoAnn, recommend to never use QC with salt. We have had many discussions on that subject, and the results as to the health of the fish were never positive. Also, when you store QC, do NEVER do that in the fridge. One component of the medication turns toxic when put into the fridge. Here is the link that explains it better.... :)

http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/diseas...tm#quick%20cure

The QC comments are a bit further down on that page... :)

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Andrea,

Thats good to know about the salt and QC. I knew I had seen it before, but when I went looking for a link to back it up I found some conflicting information.

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Alright, its good to have that confirmed finally. Are there any other no-no's with combining salt and other meds etc? Totally didn't know that about the fridge! I never thought of storing it in the fridge, but I'm glad I know that now. Honestly, I think that meds should come with a lot more warnings than they do. The bottle of quick cure didn't even say anything about light making it defective. Formalin/malachite rang a bell somewhere in my head about light making it less effective once I realized that the bottle was made of black plastic. They've gone back to lying in the back of the tank, so I'm going to do a couple waterchanges and start them at 1/2 dose.

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I'm glad they picked up for a while Kissy, that's a good sign. I'm glad Andrea and Becky clarified that salt issue too, it rang a danger bell in my mind but I couldn't be certain.

Yep, QC is a strong medication but I have used it extensively and never had a bad reaction, I think your bad reaction may have been due to the salt. If in doubt start off at half dose but if you have persistant parasites you will need full dose to erradicate them.

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I never had troubles with QC either, but I also never had salt in the tank with the QC. I hope your fish are doing better, Kissy... :hug

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Becky, Formalin and formaldahyde are the same thing. ;) And no, formalin straight does not mix with salt at all by itself. However, Formalin mix products are generally recomended to not go over 0.1%. However, Doc J (Doc Johnson) has used it up to 0.3% with proform c. . Regardless, I still never recomend it over the 0.1%. Different meds, different ratio's to the ingrediants can/could make a difference along with the tolerance level/illness of the fish itself. Make sense? :)

*****

Kissy, Henry's on vacation and won't be back until the 22nd. Sorry I havn't had much time to get around and check in! That leaves me the only mod at KV at night until he gets back! Sure glad Becky and Andrea have been round. :D Looks like I'll be hard pressed this week to get in or make rounds at all. All those Christmas things to do yet, make candy and pies etc! (make a mess too, lol!) Just thought I'd check in and see how things where going!

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Thanks Kathy! I finally found one site that did explain that formalin was the liquid version of formaldehyde (a gas). It is frightening that this information is not on the bottle and many people will use it with salt, since it is a parasite treatment. That is why these forums are so helpful, we get to benefit from the experience of others! :D

Kissy, hope everything is ok. Mica and Odie are survivors, they have made it this long, I know you can pull them through. :goodluck

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Thanks everyone :) It really does surprise me how much the companies that sell fish meds don't tell you! They don't come with a lot of info...kind of like how a lot of filter cartridges come with instructions to change them out every 3 weeks or so. Yah..I'm still not over that money scam I fell into last year lol. What would we do without kokos??

There isn't too much of a change lately. They still spend all the time at the bottom :( I'm hoping its at least partially because they think its always bed time because of the towel. Should I try a couple salt dips?

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I think they are starting to get better :) When I lift the towel, they swim around some with high dorsals, and go after their food. I switched to omega one pelets because I don't think they have anything internal. If they did, I think that I would have seen some improvement with the medicated food by now. Plus, they love their omega one! Still having trouble eating tho, but they seem more alert. Odie's tail fin is pretty ripped up today...what do you think happened? Should I give them an extra day of meds because the first was only 1/2 dose?

*fingers crossed*

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Hi Kissy,

I've been away for the last 11 days so I've missed the latest developments. :( Sorry. I hope everything is under control and other members have been able to assist you. :)

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Hi Kissy,

Glad the fishees are perking up, and that you have someone helping you with the qc. I never used it so am not much help.

Those guys have got to get better soon! :please

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Not too much of an improvement...I did the 50% water change and started over with meds again, but they are having more trouble eating now. Poor little babies :*(

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Thanks :) I realized something a few days ago when I was about to start the 2nd round. I totally missed the notice on the top of the Quick Cure bottle saying to shake well before use x_X I've been doing that this time now. That may have been affecting the meds the first round? I hope so. When I'm done with this round I'll uncover the tank and watch them for a few days I guess.

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Well, I turned to Toothless for more help a little more than a week ago since everyone was pretty much out of ideas. He had just heard of a new remedy from a koi and goldfish health scientist person, even more than himself (yah, unbelievable) The man recomended very slowly bringing the salinity up to .8% and leaving it there to get rid of stubborn chilo (what we think Odie and Mica have). Toothless is watching me do everything and making sure I don't mess anything up because he has never tried this before. He is actually trying this himself on one of his other fish so he is about three days ahead of me. I found out the exact gallonage of the tank: 8 gallons, then converted that into 29.6L. Then, add one gram of aquarium salt per Liter the first day. I took out the filter and I'm doing 100% water changes every day along with raising salinity. I wouldn't recomend this to anyone because it is pretty much uncharted ground for this forum and there are easier ways to get rid of most chilos. I'd never try this if I didn't have Toothless's daily guidance.

Odie and Mica are doing horribly...they definately have a gill parasite. I don't think they won't eat and are suffocating. They lay on the bottom leaning over with their mouths stuck open gasping. Gills are dark dark purple and their breathing is so labored you can see their bodies moving back and forth. I've actually thought of euthanization a few times and thats pretty bad..I don't believe in euthanizing animals :cry1

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