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Kissy

Lying At The Bottom Not Moving.

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Just stick to M1 for now. Finish a full course and then if there are no improvements then try M2. Care must be exercised when treating with antibiotics.

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Okay. I can barely see my fish unless they are close up now (because of the clouding of meds) but Odie's pop eye is looking better. There's just a little speck of cloudiness left.

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Just stick with it and ride it out. I know it is stressful. We shall wish for a sucessful outcome and get the tank and fish back into shape. :)

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That's good but do not overdose. Stick to 1 course of treatment of 10 days and then reassess.

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Ten days? One course of treatment is 5 days. I'm on the fourth day today I think. They water is really cloudy and has kind of a brownish tinge...is that brown color weird? I don't remember that last time I treated. It smells a little weird too. I've been adding lots of prime tho since I don't have much time to check on params. On the box it says you can do a second round if you like, is that what you are talking about? I accidentally bought a pack of 24 tablets. I don't think I will ever run out, but my wallet is hurting :crp

They are eating!

Edited by Kissy

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Guest becky
They are eating!

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Yea!!! :monkey Sounds like things are looking up! Keep up the good work.

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Okay, so Odie's pop eye has healed, both have gotten their appetites back, and both are more active :D They still have a little trouble chewing and swallowing, but they are getting food in their systems and I feed them the parasite meds about 3 times a day in small quantities because they think soggy food is yucky. Odie has such an appetite now...He pushes Mica out of the way!! This is only around feeding time, but he swoops under her belly or tail and pushes her up and away from the tank bottom where "his" food is. He's not nipping or is too aggressive, and Mica is still getting her share of food so I am not worried. He's trying to compensate for his poor vision I think :P He also spends almost all of his time scavenging around where food is most likely to be, even when I'm not feeding. His poop is more colored now, but not totally healthy, and neither is Mica's. They are both on their way tho. However, I'm still worried about a couple things.

I still think they have some sort of gill disease or parasite. There is still yawning and gasping at the surface. The edge of their gills looks a tiny bit tattered. Also, Mica has some sort of "lump". I think she had it when I got her, but I wasn't sure if its my imagination or not. The back end side of her tummy on the right is kind of bulgy. Its best seen from behind; one side sticks out more. On that area she has some lighter colored scales too. I assumed that they had fallen off and grown back that color, but I'm still worried :unsure I'll try to get pics of both.

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Okay, pics will help here.

Well, we can't rule out anything but you have done a round or two of anti-parasites treatment with little effect. Once they recover some more, you can consider doing another round of anti-parasite but you really need to give them a chance to recover and build up their strength again. Give them a few days. Just make sure the symptoms are not getting worse.

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Okay :) I will probably do a waterchange today to get rid of the meds in the water. I'll give them a few days with clean water, and if all is well I'll start with the parasite clear again. Should I give them a salt bath so the meds will be more effective?

I have another idea...could the gill sickness be bacterial? On the back of the maracyn box it says it treats gill disease. Their yawning and air gulping has gone down since I treated with maracyn for 5 days, but not totally. But then again, it could be parasitic. They've been eating much more anti-parasitic food lately and maybe that is helping.

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Oh my God, I'm a bad fish mom. I tested the ammonia and it was very very high x_X I'm too embarrassed to post the number. Its just a miracle that my sickies are not acting horribly. I did a triple dose of prime and added some carbon (didn't smell like sulfer) to get rid of the maracyn. I'm going to do a 30% water change... I hope that is enough because all my "clean" water buckets are being cleaned because I may have contaminated them with Odie and Mica's water, and I am using a washed out container I usually use to store fish supplies. How long should I leave the carbon in until all the meds are absorbed?

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swollenmica.jpg

Here's a pic of mica's side. The swelling isn't that noticable, but you can see the discolored scales. I think that is the center of the swolleness. The outer circle is approximating where its swollen, but I think its a tiny bit more back.

There are more pics of her side on their photo page: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...opic=38479&st=0

Edited by Kissy

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Okay, stay calm. :)

The high ammonia is probably due to the maracyn nuking your filter. That is always on the card and that is why you need to do tests to keep an eye on it. You did the right thing with the Prime and water change. :)

I'm afraid that that is the danger of medicating on the fly. Now you are not sure if it is the Maracyn or the anti-parasite food that is helping.

With that lump, it is not to say what is may be at this stage. How long have you observed this? How fast is it growing?

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The lump/swolleness has been there since I have gotten her. I'm not sure if its growing at all really. If it is, its growing very slowly. I'm afraid its that sporozoan thing x_X

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If it has been there for a long time and it is growing slowly then leave it alone. There is not much you can do.

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Guest becky

Aww, Kissy. I hope the lump is something benign and not the sporozoan thing. Time will tell, but try not to worry about it (impossible, I know) :crp My guys lumps usually started on their left side, so maybe you are ok.

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I'm just going to hope its nothing deadly or contagious. I've become very attatched to her lately. Whenever she sees me walk in my bedroom door she darts over to say hello (and beg for food) She'll also eat from my hand now.

I have this "biozyme" stuff I'm going to try. I used it to help cycle a fishless tank once and saw an immediate jump in progress. Can't hurt, right? I have some bio media I just added to my tropical tank, but there's only 2 tetras in the 10 gallon so that won't be much help, even in the couple weeks it will take to seed. I see some ammonia burns forming on Mica's tail fin...poor baby :(

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Do whatever is necessary but don't try too hard. We see problem arises from keepers trying to be one step ahead of the problem and ended up with a chemical soup. Just keep in mind that you should start with pristine water and then after necessary medications, you must aim to return the water to the same pristine stage as soon as possible. :)

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Guest becky

You can dose the tank with Prime in between water changes. Just keep the ammonia down, especially if you have high ph (do I recall that correctly?).

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My plan is to do a 30% waterchange every day after school, and dose with prime every morning before school. How does that sound? Too many waterchanges? I've got the ammonia down to .75 tonight, but it looks like a Long way to cycle. Detoxified ammonia shows up on AP tests right? Yes, I do have a high pH; it is at 8. I don't want to start any more meds until I have water params under control (except for feeding anti-parasite meds)

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Guest becky

Sounds like a plan. Do as big as you need to do. I would definitely keep it below 1.0 and preferably below 0.5 with a ph of 8 (I have high ph too-8 out of the tap). Another thing you can do to guard against ammonia toxicity is to keep the temp low-67-70 degrees if that is feasible.

It is hard because the cycling bacteria grow quicker with higher temps, but lower temps protect against ammonia toxicity. I am trying to cycle a tank right now and fighting that battle, plus I have 1.0 ammonia in my tap.

Dataguru has a chart I can track down the link for you if you want.

Detoxified ammonia shows up on AP tests right?

Is this true? Maybe that is why I feel like I am getting nowhere even after dosing with prime.

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It is always better to do more small waterchanges than big irregular ones. :) Yes, some ammonia test will still show binded ammonia especially if you use ammolock. Prime should be okay. It is very hard to overdose on ammonia binders so double and even triple dose is acceptable if in doubt. :)

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Guest becky

Apparently even prime will show false positives with either type of test kit. This article recommends the "ammonia alert card" as one of the few ways to accurately measure free ammonia when using binders.

Ammonia and Test Kits

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Thats the second time I've read that about prime but I've never had a false positive readout with ap's test kit. Very weird......

Kissy hows the fish doing?

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They are still doing good. I haven't seen them yawn in a while, but they do still gulp air from the surface. Maybe its just because of the crazy water params? They are still active and happy. No twitching or listlessness, and their dorsals are always upright, except sometimes when they are concentrating on chewing a mouthful of food. They still have a lot of trouble chewing and swallowing, but are managing. Poop looks mostly normal. No more pop eye :)

By small regular water changes...is three gallons a day okay? Or should I break it down to 1.5 twice a day or something?

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