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Lying At The Bottom Not Moving.


Kissy

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Okay, God does not want me to own goldfish. Either that, or I have goldfish repellent in my water. I drove an hour and a half to another LFS. Their tropical fish were all looking healthy, but the goldfish weren't much better than the stores near me. So..I brought home 2 baby goldfish, a 1" orange and white fantail with really long fins and a scrawny white telescope with blackish patches. They are acclimating in a popcorn bowl to my pH since it is so much higher. my pH is 7.9-8 and the stores was probably 7-7.5. Every 10 minutes, I take one cup of their water out, and replace with 1 cup dechlorinated, aged, and .1% percent salinity. The store had about that much in their goldfish tanks, and the temps are the same now. It appears that the little fantail is going thru some sort of shock. It was a 45 minute drive home and I added a bag buddy to their bag and kept them in a paper bag the whole way so the dark would calm them. The little fan tail is lying on the bottom, not moving. The little telescope is slightly more active and keeps nudging the fantail to get up, but s/he doesn't want to. Is there anything I can do? Am I doing something wrong? It seemed fine at the store....this is so discouraging.

pH is currently about 7.5

More params to come...

I have a nice big plant in the bowl which it is hiding under.

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Do you have "pH Down" by Aquarium Pharmeceuticals? That could help with the pH shock of your water. That stuff is a blessing. Another thing, are your faintails fins clamped down? If not, she may be stressed but not to the point of being in a deadly shock.

Please post more params as soon as you can as that will help tremendously.

She may just need a dark quiet spot to assimilate.

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This is unusual. I've assimilated lots of my fish in the past by doing the same procedure as you and I have been fine.

Do you run off a well system? Also, since you drove an hour and a half to the store, there may be a large difference in pH levels between you and the store where you bought your fish, especially if you are running off a well and they aren't.

Keep posting :)

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I do have pH down, but I should have thrown that stuff away a long time ago. I have a high ph, and when I was new, I used to add TONS to get it down to 7.5ish. Adding acid to your aquarium isn't very good for fish, and it probably won't help much with pH shock if thats what it is because that brings down the pH pretty fast. My kH is off the charts tho, so it doesn't matter if I add the whole bottle of sulfuric acid to the bowl (I would never do that), my water would be back up to 8ish within the hour.

Little Fantail has no clamped fins..she's quite the opposite. She's lying on her tummy with her long fins spread out on the bottom. Both goldfish have very VERY small red veins in their tail fin. Its almost unnoticable. I don't know if its normal or not, the fish guy was very knowlegable and spent 5 minutes looking over the two for signs of illness. He even talked about the disease with the bloody streaks in the fins (septicemia) and how its common but deadly for goldfish. Then he gave them a "clean" bill of health by what he saw. Of course, she was active then. Other than that, no visible signs of illness

Nope, no well water for either of us. I'm going to add more Prime just in case, and get the levels. Should I add an air stone to the bowl or will that upset her more?

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Alright...

ammonia: .2

nitrites: 0

nitrates: 160+

I'm not sure I like this fish store so much...I'm not sure if the nitrates are what is bugging them because fantail only started acting sick when I brought her home. However, it is probably a factor in stress. I wish I could just zap them gone!! The pH is not matched yet tho, so I can only go so fast.

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Hi Kissy

When I brought home a couple of fishies and put them in a bucket they did the same thing. It was like they didnt like being in the bucket. As soon as I added them to the tank, however, they were active.

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Eeep! poor fishies. :(

I think its just a ton of stress from the ph change. Any change, no matter how gradual, is still very stressful. There really isn't anything you can do for them until you get them acclimated and into the tank and away from all those nitrates. Make sure they have an air stone in the tank and arent getting tossed around much, and then let them destress.

I hope they make it. :(

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Okay.....

I hope they survive. They are adorable and I'm so attatched already..even tho its only been a couple hours.

Cross your fingers everyone. I don't have any luck when it comes to goldfish. :( *trying not to cry*

I only have a half hour left til the computer kicks me off the internet.

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I just went to go check on them and change another cup full. Telescope had her fin around Fantail :( Thanks guys...buying fish is every so bittersweet....

I turned out my room lights, and turned on the closet and empty 29 gallon tank lights. So its dark, but not too dark. I had the lights on and a folder over the bowl before, but she freaked out everytime I had to take it off for the water change. Poor fishies... I don't want her or Telescope to die.

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So sorry Kissy.....I'm not sure what's bothering your fish.Was he active when he was in the store?All I can think of at the top of my head is stress.You may want to add an airstone to the bowl....really sorry.....I wish I could help :(

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She was moderately active..

Most of them were that way because there were so many and not enough O2 according to the employee. He said he just got them in too

She's out from under the plant, but still in her "dead" pose. Telescope is right above her...I can tell they are friends already.

Edited by Kissy
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I am so glad you finally got some fish to add to your tank you have been preparing for so long!

Hopefully they just need a little time to adjust from the trip and being in a popcorn bowl! :lol: I know they will love their new tank!

Fingers crossed. I know it will be fine. :exactly

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Lol okay, I'll try not to worry. My god tho..I think I'm going to be up late. I don't want them spending the night in the bowl, but I don't want to rush pH changes. I need to start liking coffee :P *whew* Trying not to worry.

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Yes it might indeed be stress from the trip.Monitor their behavior after you put them in your tank.Give them time to settle and continue your 0.1% salinity....that will ease their stress.Keep us posted....my thoughts are with you :heart

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Okay, I'll be on for a little while longer. I snook on to my parent's account. Yah, so I was sneaking down the stairs very quietly. Ooof. Slipped and fell on my butt half way down. Smooth huh? So, I was thirsty and getting water. If I hear anyone coming I can pop up the sample screensavor and blend in with darkness :yeah Anyways, I'll stay up all night if I have to, but I'm not going to bed til they are properly acclimated to the pH and in the QT tank.

stupid high pH. *grumbles*

Edited by Kissy
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I finally hooked up a little air stone and wow. Little fantail is much more active already. The reason it took so long was I didn't realize I needed connector peices and kept trying to shove the air tube into the pump outlett. Then I remembered something about that peice..so I went thru all my fish stuff in almost darkness. But I found it and hooked it. She started swimming and playing in the bubbles with telescope. So far so good...I'm going to continue to check on them and do some itty bitty water changes for pH. I'm so happy to see her actually MOVE! I think she may be a ribbon tail...I don't think I've ever seen one, but her tail is about 1.5 times as long as her body and its all thin and "ribon-like". Telescope doesn't have the typical butterfly tail either..its also much more "ribon like". Both are so adorable...I hope that this was the reason why they weren't so active, and nothing else arises. I promise pics of both cuties once they are settled in and more comfy. I also promise to find out or assign genders and names soon too :P

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Hi Kissy,Sorry to hear about your new fishies having problems. I am not the Top expert here,but I think removing a cup of their water for yours every ten minutes,is a bit fast. I don't remove any of their water,I just add mine slowly over a few hours to theirs.That may be one of the reasons they're not doing well. Ammonia is at .2,and for a fish to be safe,it should be reading 0.The Nitrates,are off the chart-That alone could be doing your fish in. A fish can handle their ph going up as long as it's not instantly.WHat it can't handle is poor water quality. I'm thinking the ammonia/nitrate reading is more stressful to them than being purchased. What size tank have you put them in? Are you planning on using a filter on them? Did you use fresh water to fill the tank,or tank water? Have you recently taken any tests on their water? Sorry I answered so late---I'm actually working tonight.So how Are the fish doing>>>>>..

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Hi Devs, thank you for replying. Oh goodness my right hand is so cold it can't type right! The pH matched at 8 a while ago, so now I am putting the finishing touches on their QT. I bought a new syphon so I didn't have to worry about contaminating my tropical tank. However, the first attempt and the two tiny blue peices that cover/uncover the syphon hole broke and fell out! The qt didn't have any fishy water in it yet, so I attempted to use the tropical syphon. That isnt working either. So....I took apart their air stone and I am syphoning the extra fish flakes that I cycled the tank with with AIRLINE tubing. Hence, the frozen hand. I have not tested the popcorn bowl water for ammonia/nitrites/nitrates again yet, but I imagine its gone down since enough water has passed to match pH's. They will be going into the cycled 10 QT tonight soon anyways, and I'll test there before I sleep. When I move them to the tank, I shouldn't take any water with them to avoid any LFS water yuckies, right? All water that is being used for tank and acclimating bowl is aged 24 hours and has Prime and salt. The QT tank is ten gallons, with a penguin mini (100 gph, no biowheel) and I'm going to stuff some aquaclear cylinder media in the filter as well. I cycled that in my healthy tropical tank. I will test water 2 times daily until I am sure that the cycle is secure with no bumps. The intervals between waterchanges ended up being 15-20 minutes for most of them. What interval do you recomend for your suggested method? This pH matching took a total of five hours. I think I read somewhere on this site to do it this way, but your way sounds more safe.

I just drained half of the cycled QT tank water, and added the same salted, conditioned, aged water I had been using during aclimating, but had not used up. I transfered the biomedia to the tank as well. I think all is ready to move them.

I'm sorry if I'm jumping all over the place..its 2 am over here...

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They're in now.

I was very worried because fantail did not struggle or even move when I caught her with the nylon net, but now she is looking happy and exploring her new home. On the other hand, Telescope has not really left the forested area of the tank yet. She seems much less active..her dorsal fin is clamped down a little and she is swimming crooked, tilted to her right. I hope they're both alive and well in the morning...I'm ready for sleep.

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Woo I got three hours of sleep!

Anyways...Telescope is swimming better and more active. Fantail is kind of active, but not so much and likes to stay in her forest. They both ate today, but I also saw they both have long, VERY thin white poop :( I watched for an hour and Fantail yawned at least five times. I'm really worried about them, it sounds like parasites :( Now that I actually have light to look at them with, Fantail also has a few tears in her fins. I have TONS of meds already, but what is good for internal parasites if they have them? Off the top of my head the parasite meds I know I have prazi, aquari-sol, Jungle labs parasite clear, and mardel stuff. Would any of the these help with internal parasites? Can I use any with Jungle labs anti-parasite med foods? I think whenever I can get to the store to buy more syphons, I'll pick up some of that.

Good news tho, I think the cycle's working great so far because there is no ammonia or nitrites in the tank.

Edited by Kissy
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Kissy my goodness what an ordeal!!

What I would recommend for now is concentrating on the water quality. Yes they may have parasites, but you can deal with that in a couple days. For now the stress and ph/water issues, they need to settle a bit before you dump more meds and changes their way.

I would fast them too for a day, not only will it help your water issues, but give them a time to settle down.

I agree that between the ph, the water being crappy and the stress from the long drive you are lucky they are still with you. Whew!!! Have to give it to you.

Have you tested your tap water yet? Any chance some of your problem lies there?

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Hi Laurie, thanks for answering my posts. All those nitrates came from the store water..I tested my aged water that I was acclimating with and also used the extra to add to the QT tank before introducing the new goldfish. Nitrates were at about 7ish, and ammonia and nitrites were at zero. That's good!! I'm so glad the fishless cycling worked out and something is actually on my side for once. I'm gonna watch the water quality like a hawk tho, just to be sure. I know how important water quality is, especially for stressed and sick fishies.

"I agree that between the ph, the water being crappy and the stress from the long drive you are lucky they are still with you. Whew!!! Have to give it to you. " :\ I feel really bad about that..I did the best I could to keep the stress down as low as I could.

Should I gradually move the salinity up to 3 teaspoons per gallon?

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Hi Kissy,

Sorry I only just now saw your message. Your doing fine and good info from Laurie. Give them a bit of time to adjust.. Then maybe go with a round of prazi & salt. Medicated food for a round. Medicated food for internal parasites would contain metrodinazole (sp?)

Oh, they do sound so cute, I'll be looking to see pics sometime soon! :)

I'm sure Kissy from what you have wrote, they went through a lot of stress, the store only just got them in you wrote, so they had the stress of being caught, bagged, transported, netted again and then another whole go round of the same. I'm sure they probably thought they where on a merry go round and couldnt get out!

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