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Graham

Graham Is Sick!

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Yay!! Tell Graham to keep fighting for me! Maybe you should put his new portrait by his tank so he feels better :P

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Guest JustJayde

Hehheheh honeyyyyy all yer pets are weird ;) he is just settling down to fit in LOL

I am happy to hear he is holding his own.....

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Hi Everyone!!!! OK - Graham still has stringy whit poo - but the bouts of floatiness are diminishing and we haven't had any for two days. Part of this may have been the sudden tempurature change - GN now has a super duper new digital thermometer that compares tank temp. to room temp with high and low alarms! He got his river rocks so is happy but also getting more food. I added a very few decorations that don't take up too much space and for some reason that really cheered them up! I removed the bubble wnad that didn;t work very well b/c it was trapping debris at the tank wall - and it was ugly - and GN was in danger of getting his head stuck in between while huntoing for food that got swept under the air bar.

Whew! All this work paid off, everybody seems very happy! Including me! :D

Still concerned about the stringy white poo, but considering that his two other major symptoms, transient SBD and "weird" behaviour seem to be gone, I will take it as a sign of improvement!

FREE AMMONIA - test kit arrived half an hour ago - ran the control first - ran the test at 15 then 30 minute readings - NO FREE AMMONIA!!!!

Here are the water analysis reports from 2004 -

http://washingtonaqueduct.nab.usace.army.m...lysisReport.pdf

Still waiting for the 2005 report! Prolly have to wait as the Army Corps is busy in the south right now and only left a few guys up here to run the show... :(

Here is the report about the addition of CHLORAMINES - (Although this particular announcement is for Balto. County, the same release was made for DC - I just can't locate the doc. - typical of DC bureaucracy...) SEE LAST PARAGRAPH -

http://washingtonaqueduct.nab.usace.army.mil/Chloramine.htm

And this is about the orthophosphate flushing we get once a year... still dunno what it means but the values on the water analysis report confirm the dates int his announcement - at that time, I was still using spring water - what does OrthoP do to fish?

http://www.epa.gov/dclead/11-16-04%20flush...20to%20Dunn.pdf

Let's hopw the stringy poop stops -then we we will know he is 100% better - let's hope the boys get 100% immunity after exposure the Evil-Jean-Killing virus/bac! :heart

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I sure hope that this is a continueing trend for GN! :D

Thats great you have the free-ammonia kit now. There will never be any doubts from here on out. Even when your using Prime.

So, Have you tested the tapwater for free-ammonia right after dosing with your usual amount of Prime? Before you add it to the tank? Or was that your control test? :huh:

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Hey, I was just g0ogling orthophosphates, they are inorganic phosphates, ie free-floating, doen't need bacteria to break them down, and are easily absorbed by plants. I'm guessing it's not too much of a problem for your fish, but keep your eye out for algal blooms, especially blue-green type (often occurs with excessive phosphates.) -if you've got a phosphate problem, you can get resins that adsorb phosphate, Phos-zorb is available in pillows that you can put in your cannister that lasts a few months... I'm not sure about the concentration but I don't think it's at a poisonous level for your fish...

I'm glad to hear GN is on his way up! Lovely to hear about fish that are getting better. :)

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Glad to hear Graham is doing better!! I hope you can get the stringy white poop figured out but at least it sounds like things are moving in the right direction!! :tbanana

Edited by fantailfan1

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Just checked for news on GN, I'm thinking of you both.. Every time I see that picture of him in your signature I keep thinking my Blue, a chocolate-blue butterfly girl, would love to meet GN, she's a bit lonely since her boyfriend passed on, she's the only sight-impaired goldfish in her tank and the others tend to leave her out of their 'school'..

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:teehee I think Graham is interested! He says he wants a girlfriend!

Do you have a picture of her I can show to him! He knows what it is like to be all alone... she can join our myopic tank! :D She can check out how handsome he is in GF Photos where I am about to post a beautiful portrait of the one, the only, Graham Handsome Norton!

Params - pefect. Weird bahavior - gone. BUT STILL WHITE POOP!!! It does not stop! I am so worried that this is some subacute infection that will turn into septicaemia... I am trying to be positive and remember that - slowly - other symptoms are resolving... but then I remember how "normal" Jean Lafitte seemed...

THe floatiness has resolved after several days on peas but returns as soon as I feed pellets (soaked) again... He had some poop lately that indicated constipation (despite eating peas for three days straight?!) so they are both on a three day NO FOOD diet - followed by threee days of peas. Tomorrow will be their first meal in three days. Do you guys think this might help starve off any gut bugs? :idont

What could unremitting white-clear stringy poop be?! Any ideas, :please

PS - RE: free ammonia from tap - will do tomorrow! Since the water report is outdated by one year - (ah, DC - so efficient)! Good thinking - thatnks, T!

Edited by Graham

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I am glad to hear that Graham is doing better. He is a GORGEOUS fishie!! (I went back into photos to find him!!)

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Hi, :rofl I'll get my camera out and post a pic of Blue in Goldie Pics for GN to check out! I've gotta open myself a photobucket account so it may take a while.... I had to hold the laptop real close up to the glass for Blue to see the pic of GN, but when she saw him she swam in a little circle and sucked up some sand and spat it out. I think this is fishy sign language that means 'Ooh baby! when do I get to meet him!'

The white stringy poop ususally means he's still got an internal bacterial infection so I reckon keep treating him for that. Just re-reading your last post, you say white-clear, -are you sure GN's a boy? clear poop could mean reabsorption of eggs? Not doubting you but if you are sure GN's a boy then it's not that explanantion....

It's definitely a good thing that he is getting better, one step at a time, it means that his immune system is strong enough to win the battle. 'not worse' is a 100% better diagnosis than 'worse', and if he's actually looking better, that's a VERY positive sign, so keep your chin up there's a lot of people on this message board who are both very fond of you and GN! You are the best fishy mum!

Just a thought, if you want food with a great laxative effect, have you tried duckweed instead of peas? -I reckon duckweed is better than peas when it comes to quick production of nice thick, lime-green, short poops. We can get it from our lfs, or if you have an out-door pond you could harvest it from there, but make sure the water qual in the pond is ok. I suggest trying your lfs first. Proper duckweed (lemna varities) is delectable to most goldies once they have a taste for it, and is big on the fibre and also on the Vit C which is also good for boosting the immune system in goldies.

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Well, I got sick of thinkig Graham is sick so I fed him gel food instead of peas today (after three days fasting) - only a small amount since he has not eaten in a while - and he is a little floaty now and hanging at the top - red veins starting to show in tail... I will do a water change and it will prolly help - but what is going on?!

Nitrates at 40 - all else 0 - pH stable at 7.6 - water change now.

Doing tap free ammo test now.

Can this be the problem? -

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=35703

Edited by Graham

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We posted at the same time! Yes, that is exactly what I have been wondering!?!?!?

I will try some duckweed bu tI have to order it online - can you tell me more about the egg possibility - I am worried about impaction...

I don't want to give a-bac food if the whole "problemm" is just that GN is a girl!

Edited by Graham

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Hi, sorry for the late response, didn't know you were online....

Has Graham been looking plumper around the middle over the last few months? -you mentioned Jean was following Grahams rear-end and bumping into him, -this is often a sign that the bumper is a male and the bumpee is a female who is releasing 'pheremones' into the water, -often because she's full of eggs. Does Jean or Graham have their breeding tubercles? -If Graham has the white spots on his operculum/pec-fins then he's a boy, if he doesn't, then it doesn't necessarily mean that he is not, it's difficult to work out definitively if a fish is female until you see her lay eggs, but behaviour and body-shape/features, can give you a good guesstimate.

female have...

thinner whispier first ray on pec fin

thicker first ray on anal fin

less pronounced ridge than runs between ventral fins and anus

if full of eggs tends to swell more on one side of abdo (best viewed from above)

no breeding tubercles.

And an 'outie' cloaca/anus, kinda roundish...

In personality I have found to be more antisocial

gets chased by males.

males have..

thicker first ray on pec fin

thinner first ray on anal fin

more pronounced ridge b/n ventrals and anus

if in season/older than about 3yrs will show white spots on operculum and roughish white spots on the first ray of pectoral fins (feels rough to touch)

And and 'innie' cloaca/anus -looks more like a slit

Tend to be more rambunctious, likes to school more, will chase females that are 'on heat'

-I'm hoping this helps you a bit...

If GN is a female and is actually starting to poop out reabsorbed eggs, then I think it'll be okay, but I'm not so good on this sort of thing, not had any first hand experience, I'm hoping there's someone else who can help. I'd suggest to keep feeding him laxative type food if there is an impaction and he/she is getting constipated and floaty the food maybe sitting in his/her stomach and rotting..

Duck weed will work wonders for constipation!...

Maybe cut down the amount of food per serve and feed more times per day?

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Hmmn, just reading my info on identifying males and females, I might post that on tip of the month, if no one else has already.... :D

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THanks for the description of how to sex the fish - the problem is that until I got Jean, Graham lived alone so it has been virtually impossible to determine his/her sex... by that criterion, I thought he was a boy...

I just don;t want to start medicated food if this turns out to be normal for female fish with eggs! But, I still don't know. ..

Jean is without a doubt a BOY. Not only does he have very clear breeding tubercles but I specifically requested - required - a boy when I selected him form the breeder - he is a boy. Jean chases Graham.

I have been feeding nothing but peas 4xday for the last week already, then I saw bubbles in the poo and that's when I decided to fast them for three days then decide whether to resume with peas or start medicated food.

This morning, lacking any other information about whether this is egg impaction, I decided to start medicated food. They ate then Graham got floaty (I soaked the food well). I did a water change, now he/she is upside down, looks distressed, red straks in tail, swollen abdomen.

There is debris all over the tank in the form of casts. It is very frangible and there are little bits floating all over the tank all the time... Since Jean eats EVERYTHING I have been manually cleaning the debris - now we are up to four times a day and even witha water change, the casts coming form Graham cannot be cleared from the tank.

I beginnning to think that Graham is dying form egg impaction - (if he is a girl) -

Is there anything I can do?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

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Hi Darlin',

I've just done a quick search on the net and found this good page...

http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/diseas...ting%20problems

It's about half way down the page,

From what I gather, the best thing to do for egg impaction, (and from what you've been describing I'm starting to favor this diagnosis, have you felt GN's belly? is it firm or soft? from what I've read if it is soft that could mean either eggs or an internal parasitic infection) is epsom, heat and medicated food. -Even if GN is resorbing the eggs, they may be infected which will cause an internal bacterial infection, so I guess that's where the medication comes in, I think you did the right thing by giving GN the food, even if it did make her floaty.

Oh I do hope GN pulls through this. He/she is such a little sweetie...

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Thank you!!!

Ususally I check JoAnn's notebook but somehow I missed it entirely this time!

I will do physical exam first thing in the late morning.

There are a few things in the physical exam that have have clicked... and I was kinda thinking of giving Graham a gentle "squeeze" anyway - I will definitely do it tomorrow according to JoAnn's exam. There does appear to be some kind of anal prolapse - possibly - but it is not red; there are several types of poop, all somehow explained by one dx of impaction => internal infection. And the description of egg-bound problems in the page you attached rings very true of Graham's history...

Most telling, the "bubbles" that I think are actually eggs being expelled - some of them are clear but I find things floating in the tank that look round and fuzzy... ? possibly expelled infected eggs? :idont

So, I am trying to clear the tank because I am concerned about reinfection if Jean eats these things (he seems to have Fishy Kluver-Bucy) as he ingests anything in his path.

SO IN GENERAL,? thin white poop is bacteria...

But if the feces are thin, white but with bubbles in the feces AND the fish are seen excessively eating bubbles at the surface, this has been correlated to an internal infection with columnaris.

This sums it up! Along with intermittent floatiness and somethimes the dark, mucosy poo.

Is this survivable and if so, does it recur? I would think it is more likely to recur in a fish who already had it... but my current research doesn't leave much hope - unless I want to FedEx Graham to Doc Johnson in Texas for surgery!

Thanks for your help and for doing research! I sure hope Graham can hang in there, too!

I will be MONUMENTALLY P.O.'d if he dies because he is a girl!!!!!!! :angry:

Edited by Graham

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Guest JustJayde

No cure here, but I sure hope you can help GN over the egg impaction if that is what this is!

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Hi, did a bit more research, -If you think it may be an internal columnaris infection, medigold seems to be the food of choice, as kanamycin treats columnaris. -I know columnaris is a terrible disease, when I was working in the aquarium the guppies and other live-bearers would always come in from the distributor with it, -It's a really easily transmissible disease... so yeah, if you think this is the case, maybe it's best to treat Jean with medi as well... They haven't had any cotton-mouth though have they? I haven't heard you mention it in this thread. How about the other Jean?

I was reading in 'Fancy Goldfish' that if one squeezes too hard one can rupture the ovaries in impacted fish, but I expect you know that already.

-Do the round white things look like the size of caviar? like about 2mm across? -are they fuzzy when they come out of GN or do they appear like that after a day, fungus grows on unfertilized eggs really fast, so they may not actually be white when they are first excreted.

Oh I do hope things are going well for you both. Sending my love and good wishes to you both :heart:hug

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I don't think its columnaris. That is a terrible disease that litterally eats away at the fish, but the whole thing is usually over within 48 hoursish. I've seen some scary pics :(

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-Do the round white things look like the size of caviar? like about 2mm across? -are they fuzzy when they come out of GN or do they appear like that after a day, fungus grows on unfertilized eggs really fast, so they may not actually be white when they are first excreted.

Good - point - been trying to figure this out myslef - :idont

I guess I will have to glue my eyeballs to the tank now! :krazy: But, I think after - which is why I started salting the tank again a few days ago... let's see if it diminishes...

I don't think its columnaris. That is a terrible disease that litterally eats away at the fish, but the whole thing is usually over within 48 hoursish.

Kissy - thanks - that is an excellent point! Graham is a little too healthy - I think if it were internal infection - he'd be dead by now ( :cry1 Jean Lafitte :heart ). I think I have just gone off the deep end now and driven myself insane with worry!

So, I am being returned to reason by both your excellent points - Overall, GN is rather healthy despite these bouts - it has been going on fo ra month now and he/she isn't getting worse while also not geetting better - I have finally resolved to just let go - that is...

PHYSICAL EXAM - passed with flying colors - tummy is neither too soft nor too hard. Just occasionally distended. Slime coat perfect, all other physical attibutes check out and eating is still very good. Glad I did it, though, and everyone should have that page handy! Thanks for pointing it out! IT sure makes me feel more confidant about GN's health!

I am going to print out that whole notebook!

The only I can do is continue the medicated treatment, maintain the best WQ ever, and just keep watching - which is what I am a gonna do. That's all there is left to do! THANK YOU so much for all your support!!!! I will keep you both updated! :grouphug

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