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Parasite?


fantailfan1

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I did a go0gle search "dimlin and praziquantel" and found a thread regarding a koi pond that the person answering all the questions (kinda like you, Andrea, Paul, chico) told the person asking all the questions (me) that they were safe to use together.

This is what the person wrote in that thread: He first suggested salting to 0.3%, then "I would definitely add dimilin and praziquantel. They will not harm koi and you will have all your bases covered as far as parasites."

I'll e-mail Rick and double check. :)

I really hate throwing all these meds at the poor fish. Hope one of them helps!!

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I am with you, all these meds can have an effect. But if the dimilin is anything like the luferon, it won't even touch the fish, just the bugs.

Let me know what he says.

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Guess what--D just ATE a pea!! Yes, just one but at least it's something and he showed an interest in food instead of sitting motionless on the bottom.

Shoomey also showed interest but did not swallow any. :( Got a look at her gills during this and they are pinkish red which is not normal so I need to see what that means--parasite or bacteria I would guess but is there a way to tell the difference? Probably not . . .

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Wow; frustrating not to know what's going on with them. Still, it's great D's eating, and even if Shoomey showed interest, that's better. Best of luck to you and your fish...

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Just wanted to add that Shoomey ate 2-3 peas today. D again showed interest but only swallowed 1/2-1 pea. The funny thing is when I drop the pea in he swims towards it but often misses it--kinda like he doesn't see it. Or if it's on the bottom and he tries to eat it he misses it. The one he got in his mouth he sat there with it in his mouth for quite some time like he couldn't swallow it--or didn't have the energy. Then he started chewing it and some went down and part of it came out.

Anyway this post is mainly for my reference. This is like my lil fish diary. :)

Oh and thanks, Roano, for your kind words. :heart

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So good to hear that D and Shooney are eating - more or less anyway! :thumb:

So, now you are getting both Dimilin and Prazi from Rick, right? I do now that one Jungle medication has Dimilin in it, but 1. I can't remember which one that is, and 2. it is probably in a much lower percentage than the dimilin from Rick, so its better to just wait for the shipment to arrive.

So, just to keep us up to date, there is nothing in the tank right now except a 2.5% of salt? Or is there still PC in it as well? I do remember you mentioning that the fish didn't like it too much, and you took it out? :unsure:

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Yep tank salted to 0.25% and that's all. Will decrease to 0.1% today. I'm assuming decreasing it 0.15% is ok?

I think the Jungle product you may be thinking of is Anchors Away? I found it on the web but it didn't say anywhere what % dimilin was in it. I'll get it from Rick. Do you also think the dimilin is worth a try? Seems very safe as it doesn't affect the fish at all anyway . . ..

Prazi will hopefully be here tomorrow. :) I haven't ordered the dimilin yet. I'm kinda waiting to see if Rick responds to my e-mail and if he ahs any other suggestions. Maybe I should just get it ordered?

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Yeah, its definetely worth a try. Its mild and effective, and can be mixed with a lot of other meds.

That better be the last course of meds for those poor guys - I think we are all running out of ideas. I am still amazed on how well the fish have handled all those treatments so far, those guys are some troopers! :)

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Yep they are tough lil guys!!

I sure hope these next treatments work. I haven't treated for bacteria but let's hope I won't have to! An internal bacterial infection or bacterial gill disease is the only other possible problem I can think of. But I would expect to see hemorrhages on the skin or white poo (I know you don't always see these things though.)

I don't think it's viral or fungal. We'll see what the dimilin and prazi do. I suppose my fish are susceptible to a secondary bacterial infection since we've been dealing with parasites for so long? Perhaps if they start eating better I could whip up some MetroMed gel food again to cover my bases? Or is they still aren't eating after all of this, there's always Maracyn 1 and/or 2. I also think Rick has an antibacterial bath . . . .

My brain is working over time. I'll stick with the prazi and dimilin for now. :)

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Whoa nelly!!! Hang on girl, you are chatting up a storm again. :tomuch:

I agree that with the parasites compromising their immune systems they are suseptible to a secondary bacterial infection. But I wouldn't jump on the Maracyn bandwagon.

I think the metromed is the way to go, if you can get them to eat it.

Have you force fed them yet?

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I haven't force fed them mainly because except for 2 (maybe 3) very long days that they showed no interest in food they would get the food in their mouths, chew chew chew then spit it out. While they were chewing it would get pretty far back in their mouths and yet it came back out. I don't think I could get it any further back than they do when they are still able to spit it out.

I just noticed when I moved them over to their new tank for the day (salt down to 0.1%) that on D's ventral fin he has a splotch of blood with a white lil blob on it. He also has a tiny spot of blood on his body where his ventral fin comes in contact with his body when he's sitting on the bottom. It also has a little white blob on it that matches up directly to the little blob on his fin when he's sitting on the bottom. (Why is my husband out of town when he should be here taking pics of this for you to see?!)

It kinda looks like the two spots had lots of contact during prolonged bottom sitting and then when D got up to swim again they separated and caused a little spot. Does that make any sense? (It reminds me of when a person has a very dry eye, they go to sleep at night and a dry spot on the cornea adheres to the eyelid. They wake up in the morning and OUCH it causes a corneal erosion. OK now I'm really rambling but that's what it reminds me of . . ..)

Oh and Shoomey pooed a nice green poo! Now if only D would get something of significance in him so we could see what his poo looked like. :o How can I get that MetroMed in him?

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Have you tried the the Metromed with baby food peas in a gel food?

The peas may mask the taste somewhat. Sounds like they like the peas, to at least try to eat them.

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How are they today?

I've never had a problem with my fish eating MM; although they have to work on chewing it sometimes, even when I break the pellets in half.

"The funny thing is when I drop the pea in he swims towards it but often misses it--kinda like he doesn't see it."

Mine have done that too; like they can only see it to a certain point and then swim blingly and try to grab it. But mine always can find it on the bottom...

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I dropped the salinity to 0.05% (yes 0.05%). When I dropped it from 0.25% to 0.1% yesterday D had a really hard time adjusting. toothy suggested that with the prolonged salt (not to mention the salt dips I did in addition to the Quick Cure) D may have some kidney damage. So I thought I'd take it down slowly and let his kidneys adjust. He's still having a bit of a difficult time with the change. However I also noticed that the tank I transferred him to was about 3 degrees warmer than the tank he was in. I usually match it precisely. I don't now how it got so warm this time without me noticing.

We'll see how he does.

I got an e-mail response from Rick. He suggested using the Prazi. toothy thinks we should lay off the meds for a while and see how they do.

Shoomey is looking quite good. Much more active and eating OK. Her fins are tipped in black which I believe is a sign of healing. Her poo has been food colored.

D still is not eating. He bottom sits with his fins clamped most of the time. The blood spot that I mentioned yesterday is still there. It looks worse today. :(

Here are some pics:

The area I'm concerned about is next to my thumb. If the ventral fin were pulled down more you would see a bigger area of red but I didn't want to handle him too much. The last pic is probably the best one.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/grgt...01_edited-1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/grgt.../Untitled-1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/grgt...00_edited-1.jpg

Does anyone think this could be a bacterial infection? I just want to make sure it gets treated if it is. This area is the only redness on his body--even his tail looks good. Since he hasn't eaten I don't know what his poo is like.

toothy--there gills are light/bright pinkish not the deeper red they should be. Could this be from irritation due to the salt?

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I should also mention that both the red spots (on his fin and on his body) have a kind of white skin-looking piece in the middle of them that you cannot see in the pics.

It looks kind of sore today too.

He's also breathing kinda rapidly since his water change. :blink:

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Lisa that looks to be bacterial infection to me. One of mine use to get something similar. I tried Medigold each time for 7,10, 14 days.

It would always come back, so I tried Metromed for the same and nothing. It would get better and then come back.

Finally I did Metromed for 30 days, and it hasn't returned.

I would set my mind to the Metromed and stay there for at least 21 days.

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Sounds good but how do I get it in him?

Any food he gets in his mouth he spits it out IMMEDIATELY.

Would something like Maracyn 1 and/or 2 be worth trying?

I don't think force feeding him by dropping the pellet into his mouth would work. I would have to get deeper into his throat--past where he could still spit it out.

Is that possible? I almost hate to think of doing that . . . .

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Girl, I don't think there is anything else you CAN do! You've been doing it all, and so well!

I am so sorry to hear of this.....and I'm sorry I haven't kept in touch lately (been super busy).

How is he looking now???

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He looks about the same this morning--clamped fins, sitting on the bottom. He's not breathing rapidly like he was last night. The red spot looks about the same also. I really don't like that spot though. The picture of it doesn't do it justice.

I was checking out different antibiotic bath type treatments on-line last night. I found one called KanaPlex by Seachem. It's supposed to be more effective than Maracyn 2. Supposedly gets in in higher concentrations and is less used than M2 so less resistancies.

I'll go look for that at my mom and pop store. We're getting ready for church now and then we'll head to the store.

I think since Shoomey looks so good I'll keep them in separate tanks and not treat Shoomey. Although Shoomey still isn't eating great so maybe I should treat her?

Anyway, I hope they have that med. I would much rather use MetroMed but he's not going for it in any way, shape or form. :(

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Poor D - after all this long time he deserves a big break! If you can find that bath you mentioned, maybe that is the way to go. Something antibacterial that is in his water, since he refuses to eat the food. What good is the food if he doesn't get it in, right?

How long has he been without any treatment now, besides the salt that is? :unsure:

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Other than the one dose of Parasite Clear I did on Tuesday, it's been since December 27 and 28 when I attempted RidIch+, which neither fish tolerated well so I stopped it.

Before that was Quick Cure in early December. Then, amazingly enough, when I gave them a little break from treatments they became parents mid-December! :o That's why they had nearly a month between the Quick Cure ending and the attempt at RidIch+--let them rest from breeding.

They ahve not had any anti-bacterial since MediGold in October.

So we started with PC in October. Then 2 rounds of Quick Cure in November. Attempted RidIch+ but abandoned after 2 days. Started salting Jan 1. They are now down to 0.05%.

Should i treat both fish with antibiotic bath or just D?

I still ahve not started Prazi as there seems to a differing opinions as to whether or not I should use it. Can't decide if gills are off color and fish are yawning/irritated gills because of flukes or such along exposure to salt.

Hmmmmm . . . .. .

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Well it seems you are now faced with a decision...........what to treat first????

Have you tried a little neosporin on the red spot? I did this with CB's red infection. Don't know if it helped or not but it is worth a shot.

His conditions are like the "which came first the chicken or the egg" scenario.

I am not sure what I would do...............

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You can treat with Prazi ANY time you like. Since its completely non-toxic, its very safe to use. But, I can say that with the amount of scoping that you do, I highly doubt that flukes are the problem.

1- Flukes can live for several or more days without a host to feed on. So, individuals will easily be found browsing among the detritus.

2- Flukes do not attach to one spot permanently. They can easily be scraped off of the body and out of the gills, by food and flashing. so, they can esily be found among detritus.

3- Some species lay eggs, others give live birth. Again, individaul organims would be found in the detritus.

So, with that info, its plain to see that if there were any flukes in your tank, you would definitely have encountered at least one organism in all of your travels through the detritus. But, since prazi is so safe, treating with it is easily an option.

I would like to point out that damage to gills is a slow healing process. So, any damaged wreaked upon them is bound to take time to heal. Depending on the extent, a fiah could possibly have gill problems for life..... :unsure:

If you can, try scraping the area around the redness. If you find nothing moving, your looking at an internal bacterial infection.

Paul

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