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Parasite?


fantailfan1

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As I had a chance to spend more time observing my fish today, I notice a lot of tail nibbling going on. I think something is going to have to be done--either a tank divider or separate tanks. I'm really not thrilled with either option as a tank divider would give them even less room to swim. If they were each an inch or two it would be one thing but D is probably 4-5 inches (not including his ever-disappearing tail) and Shoomey is 3-4 inches plus tail. They already look cramped in there and I'm not real anxious to cut the space in half. However, the thought of treating 2 tanks in the next couple of weeks (9 days of 0.8% then a week or so of bringing the salt back down) isn't really appealing either. Not to mention I'd need twice the salt . . ..

But something definitely needs to be done soon. I'll think about it . . . . I guess whichever would stress the fish less is what I would prefer to do. What do you think would be less stressful?

Oh and I noticed another whitish poo from D this afternoon. Could be from the stress of having his tail/fin nibbled on by his tank mate . . . Dorsal fin is erect a large majority of the time. I snuck in last night in the dark to see what they were doing and D was sitting in the corner sleeping (dorsal fin erect) and Shoomey was swimming around minding her own business.

Another thought about the tail/fin rot--I wouldn't think it was from the chilo as they've been living with that for months. It first started when I was treating them with salt and PC. Then it stopped when the salt was stopped. It remained the same during QC and RidIch+ treatments and started again once the salt was in the tank for about a week. So my guess is it's from Shoomey nibbling and/or possible bacteria. I ahve not treated with antibiotics yet. Is there any harm in a full course of antibiotics? What exactly do the iodine swabs do?

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Theres your culprit for the tail-rot, right there. ;)

As for dividing the tank into two sectioons, its a rather simple procedure and will not add any more extra maintenence to your regime:

You know plastic book report binders? The kind that slips onto the pages from the top of the left margin? Anyway, buying a few of those and a sheet of plastic canvas would easily make you what you need for them. Use superglue (its totally non-toxic once dry) to glue the binders to the front and back of the tanks glass. Slip the plastic canvas sheet (pre-cut) into the slots of the binders and slide the sheet down to the bottom. Viola! Tank divider for less than 5 bucks!

As for the size diff, I would make 2/3rds of the tank for D and Shoomy can have the smaller "efficiency apartment". I mean, it IS only going to be a matter of a week or two longer, at max..........

Waddya think?

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Ok I'll try the tank divider and see how they do. If they look too cramped I'll jsut do separate tanks I guess.

Any thoughts as to whether or not I should treat with antibiotics? Today I noticed 1 whitish poo then one normal poo from D. I'm guessing the white poo and red in tail could be from the stress of being nibbled on from Shoomey. But with all that's going on, will that also make them more susceptible to bacterial infections?

Or should I separate for a couple of days and see how they do? :unsure:

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Generally, bacterial infections should only be used if it obvious thaat its needed. Such as septicemia or pop-eye or even fungal infections. So, I would say separate first and see if D's tail gets any better......

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Okie dokie!!

Consider it done!! I went to vvvv for more salt :) and they had tank dividers for $6. And since I'm not much of a DIY kinda person, I bought one. It's now in the tank and it was kinda funny watching them when I moved them to their new divided tank. They both checked it out for a while . . . .

I put the airstone on D's side since he's got a little more room. I'm assuming just one airstone will suffice?

Then my daughter fed them their peas (very easy to see who gets what with that divider in there!) and they scarfed them down.

I'll watch that tail over the next few days and see what happens. I bet D is thinking "This is the best I've felt in months (no parasites) but then I've got the lil misses over their eating my tail! I just can't win." :lol:

I'll skip the antibiotics unless something obvious comes up!

Woo hoo!! I feel better about this tail thing already.

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Those dividers at the LFS are not exactly very good for allowing water to flow through them. I highly suggest that you go ahead and get a sheet of plastic canvas and use that instead of the sheet that came with the divider. It REALLY makes a big difference.

By the way, the cheapest form of salt you can find would be Mortons Rock Salt (ice cream salt). Its in a red box and is VERY cheap. I think its less than a buck for 4 pounds! :o Weigh and dose as you would aquarium salt. ;)

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Couldn't I jsut make the holes bigger in the tank divider I have? I could go with pretty big holes as the fish are huge (say compared to my fry).

Or how about an airstone on both sides of the divider?

If not where would I find plastic canvas?

D looks good today--MUCH less redness in his tail. Shoomey, however, is doing a lot of bottom sitting with clamped fins. Can't wait for the day they are BOTH acting normal. :unsure:

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Today there has been much less gasping at the surface, hardly any actually. But the strange thing is I've noticed a few yawns and some flashing. It's kinda hard to tell if it's actual flashing or just running out of room to swim as they share their 10 gallon tank--with a tank divider.

Oh and one more thing: last night when I moved them over to their clean tank for the night, as soon as I lifted the divider to move it to the new tank, Shoomey headed right over to D and started nipping at his tail!! :o I don't know what's going on there but once I mvoe them to the 90 gallon that behavior had better STOP!!

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Hmmmm, maybe an acclimation phase when the new water is introduced? Perhaps the salt takes a little longer to disperse evenly throughout the water at higher concentrations? I know that for a few minutes after adding salt, you can see it dispersing with the naked eye............

Let us know how this progresses or decreases. :unsure:

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The thing is I get the new tank all set up for them--dissolve the salt in 10 new gallons of water and usually let it sit a good 30 minutes before moving the air stones and fish over--just to make sure the temp is exactly the same.

That reminds me--what temp ahve you been treating Spud at? I read over at Koiphen that the temp should be mid 70s. I don't have a heater in their tank and the temp is a very steady 70, day and night. Should I raise it? I would :heart to buy another heater!

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Because my room stays pretty warm from all my tanks and cages, The water in all of my tanks hovers at about 72-74.

If your water is 70 or less, I would use a heater and keep the water in the mid to upper 70's. BUT, be very careful not to allow the heater to become exposed to air while its on. When your changing water, you can keep it plugged in, just use a glass of fresh water to keep it in until you have completed the change.... ;)

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Do you think I could use the heater that's in my 20 gallon? It's cycled and I ahven't found any chilo in it. I'll scope again before I move it. If I do move it should I decrease the water temp slowly in the 20 so as not to disrupt the cycle or are the bio bugs not real sensitive to temp changes?

Or I can always PP the heater before I add it to their tank--whatcha think?

Another issue--may be kinda tricky getting the heater in the tank with that divider in there. Hmmmm . . . I may have to notch out a spot on the bottom of the divider for the heater to fit?

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Well I PPed the heater, cut out the notch and we're up to 73 degrees. I think I'll bump it up just a titch before I go to bed.

I fed them some peas and they scarfed them right down. They are both swimming around checking out the heater and looking for more peas. :lol: D still has redness in his tail. It's just weird cuz it fluctuates throughout the day--sometimes there's lots of red then later I'll look and it's nearly gone. :unsure: Shoomey has a little redness in her tail also.

I'm thinking about dropping the salt down to 0.7%. I read on Koiphen to keep them at 0.6% for 24 days for chilo infestations. We've been at or above 0.6% for 10 days. Do you think I should drop it or keep it at 0.8% longer? Like I said, there's been a little bit of gasping at the surface (especially yesterday but not as much today) and a few yawns--neither of which I had noticed for a while.

What do you think? Leave it or drop it a bit? ;)

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Didja scope today?

Haven't had time to do anything but change dirty diapers and run to the bathroom myself--if ya know what I mean. :ill   Need to scope, I know but feel horrible . . .

Are you seeing any chilo symptoms as you did before?

I saw each of them at the surface twice today.  One yawn from Shoomey.  But mostly today they are sitting on the bottom--which worries me. (Dorsal fin erect sometimes, clamped sometimes)

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I'll try and scope tonight once husband home. I sure don't like all the bottom sitting though. They ate fine this morning and move when I walk by but otherwise just sit.

Don't know what to do . . . . :(

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OK well if you don't eat anything, that greatly decreases your trips to the bathroom--leaving a little time to scope. (I know--TMI :lol: )

So this is what I did:

Took out a sample with airline tubing--looked at 2 slides within 15 minutes. Saw only those tiny tiny little things that look like the size of a pinhead on 400X.

Took another sample--looked at one slide--saw nothing moving.

Took another sample--looked at 2 slides again. Saw those tiny little things.

So I did not see any chilo for the 2nd time--last time was Saturday that I scoped. I took out the tank divider to see if I'd get a little movement from the fish and I did. Of course, my dear Shoomey ahs been nibbling a bit on D's tail but not excessively. So I'll leave the divider out for the rest of the night and add it back in when I go to bed.

They've been at 0.8% for 10 days. Where do we go from here?

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Is the 20 cycled and chilo free?

If so....you may want to think about slowly getting them off the salt. About .1% per day....

What do YOU think??

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Funny thing about the 20--it was cycled then I took some of the ceramic cylinders out to put in the fry tank to try and get some kind of cycle going in there. Well that threw off the cycle in the 20 so we're back up to nitrites of 2!! UGH! But I did scope it Sat and tonight and did not see any chilo. So hopefully by the time I get D and S off the salt I can move them into the 20. ;)

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