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Darkness Appearing Under Scales!


Christine A.

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One of my lionheads suddenly has some dark "redness" under a few scales around his gills and lower right side close to his lowest fin (?). I just did a 25% water change this morning. Nitates - 5, nitrites -0.1, ammonia - 0.1, PH -7.5-8. PH of tap water was the same.

He seemd to be a bit more "reserved" this afternoon but in the last few hours seems fine.

Can anyone help me out with this? I am getting very worried. :(

Sincerest thanks.

Christine

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Does it resemble bruising? If so then its probably septiceamia brought on by the higher than normal ammonia and nitrites.

Could you give more details from the box above please to help us and in the meantime do more water changing to bring the two levels down to 0.

Is your tank new? as this may explain the levels you have. In a cycled tank the levels should be 0.

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Hi Sandy- thanks!

Yes, it does look a bit like bruising, I checked the ammonia and it was at 0.1 before I did the water change. Nitrites were at 0.1 as well. I will check again now. And do another water change.

The tank has been running for about 2 months.

Is septiceamia deadly? :unsure:

Christine

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Actually, I did more like a 35 - 40% water change this morning. Is it still ok to do another water change? Seems like ammonia is at 0 but there is still another 5 minutes to wait for the final result.

I am in the process of reducing the salt as I had it raised to 0.3% to treat a minor ich outbreak. I had it at this level for over a week and just started to reduce it. Should I re-add the salt that I removed with this morning's water change and stop reducing it for the time being?

Any advice greatly appreciated!

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Hi Christine,

Septicimia is very bad. I would start the Medigold right away. You should feed this exclusivly for 2 weeks even if the "bruise" goes away.

Now you need to check all the levels and repost them. You want to get the ammonia and nitrites to 0 while leaving some nitrates in the tank....preferalby 5 or above.

How long ago was the ich outbreak? And how long have you been treating it?

Your tank should be cycled, it is probably in it's final stages.

At this point I don't think I would use the Maracyn as it can wreck your cycle.

Septicimia really needs to be treated with injected antibotics...by a vet or by you if you have a vet that will let you have some meds.

This in combination with the medicated food only give a 50/50 chance of survival.

If no vet is in your area or this is out of the area for you, then the only thing to do is feed the medicated food and wait......Sorry to give you this news.

Are there any other fish in with him?

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Hi Laurie,

I have one other fish, a lionhead as well, in the tank.

I am not sure where to find a vet that will help with fish - do most regular vets do this kind of thing? I will ask around. :(

Right now the ammonia is at 0 and nitrates at 5 and nitirites at 0.1 and which is the lowest reading my test gives. Do I still continue to do water changes? Salt?

Can you tell me what I could have done wrong to bring this on? :( Is there anything else that ould cause these symptoms?

Thanks for your help Laurie.

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Sorry again! My mind has been scattered as I am worried about my fish and I forgot to respond to your ich question. I have been treating the ich for about 2 weeks. Toothless had been guiding me on how to raise salinity and I did that for about 10 days since seeing the last white spec. The fish haven't been treated with meds.

Again, sorry for all the posts!

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Do the fish still have the spots?.

The key to septiceamia is clean water, so doing regular water changes as well as the food will help.

How big is your tank and how often are you doing water changes?

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Hi Sandy,

Just the one fish (I have 2) has the spots. Doesn't seem like it has spread since yesterday but he doesn't look like himself - hiding more than ususal although he still has an appetite.

The tank is 29 gallon and I only have 2 fish, both about 3 inches in length.

How much of a water change should I do? I did about 35% yesterday - should I do it daily? Or only if the ammonia, nitrate, nitrite levels are high?

Previously I had been changing 25% of the water every week.

Thanks for your help!

Christine

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The septiceamia will have taken hold because he's ill with the ick. All you can do is lots of water changes and concentrate on keeping the salt going to kill off the ick. Septiceamia is usually viral so just keep doing 30% each day until it looks better as water quality is vital and keep checking your readings to make sure everything is where it should be.

I'm afraid its just one of things that happens. Lowered immunity plays havoc with them. Is the water heated at all? Raise it to 80 with lots of aeration.

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Sorry christine.... I just saw your other post about salt...... :unsure:

I woud continue with the salting if ich is still in the picture. If you see no ich spots and it has been 5 days since you last saw ANY of them, I would reduce your salt additions to a tablespoon per gallon. This is the suggested level for nitrIte poisoning, wich could very well be why your goldie doen't seem to be doing too well. ;)

Good luck and keep us posted! :)

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Ok. So just to clarify.

Everyday I do a 30% weter change adding 1 tablespoon of salt per gallon. (ie. if I take out 3 gallons of water I add 3 tbs of salt).

I noticed today that the fish now had little specks on his face and there are a few more dark spots. Although since he ate the medigold this morning he is much livlier and not hovering at the bottom of the tank. Tank temp is at 80.

So do I still give the fish medi-gold? I started today for both fish - one that shows no symptoms. I hope this is ok. :unsure: How much should I be feeding them per day of this food?

Thanks again for all your help.

Christine

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I do believe that is right about the salt. Since the tank is at 0.3% now correct?

I would feed the medigold a full 2 weeks and nothing else. You'll want to not overfeed as it won't be a good idea to get them constipated.

Usually twice a day feedings is good, depending on how big they are 3-6 pieces each is what I do. (twice daily that is).

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The tank was at 0.3% but during the last 2 days I was reducing it slowly - I would say I removerd about 1/2 of the salt. So, do I just strat tomorrow adding the 1tbs per gallon back into the tank?

Sorry for the repetitive questions I just want to make sure I get this right. :unsure: Should I feed peas as well as medi-gold to avoid constipation?

Thanks Laurie. :)

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No worries. :D

--Feed medigold, exclusively, for the duration of this treatment. I don't hink constipation is an issue with medi-gold. Unless your goldie has a history of floating issues, you can feed as much as he will eat within 5 minutes, twice a day.

--From here on out, only use 1 tablespoon of salt, per gallon, at each waterchange.

--During treatments for almost anything, waterchanges are a great boon. you cna perform much more than 30% if you like. Is there any chance you could get pictures of the spots and darkened areas you're referring to?

If not, could you explain them in detail for us?

Also, just for the sake of refreshing us on everything, could you give us a recap of everything that has transpired to this point?

Post back soon.

Paul

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Christine and Paul, the only reason I mention to be careful Over feeding the medigold is I do have a little piggy that gets constipated on it because he loves it so.

It is a pain to be in the middle of a treatment and have a gf have complications 'cause he is a glutton. :rofl

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No worries, Laurie. :D

Its always good to be aware of possibilities like that. All in all, Past history of the fish is important to consider when thinking about constipation. Especially for fancies..... ;)

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Ok. I will keep my eyes open for any floating as one of them has had issues in the past with this. But so far so good. My problem is that sometimes the pellets fall and they don't see them! :blink:

I will try my best to get some good pics tomorrow morning and post them.

Ok. To let you know what has been going on. We originally had the 2 fish in a 10 gallon tank about 2 months ago. They lived there for about 2 months and I then bought a 29 gallon tank and was cycling it for about 6 weeks. I am not sure if the tank was completely cycled before adding the fish - at that time I didn't know all that I do now about testing for nitrates, nitrites etc. But the fish did well and once I learned (after the fact :unsure: ) about the testing of the water I began testing the water religiously waiting for a spike in nitrates. During this time I noticed some small white specks on the tail of one of the fish (not the one that is sick now) and it also looked as if a chunk had been bitten from the part of the tail where the white specks were (fin rot???) The specks were not like the specks I see here on fish with ich - the body wsn't covered with them at all - just a few on the tail. Anyway, After getting some advice here I started raise the salinity of the water to 0.3%. Within a few days I noticed that the white specs were gone. I left it at 0.3% for about 10 days which brings me up to now. 2 days ago I started reducing the salinity of the water. I tested the water and everything was low although nitrates were slightly more elevated than a few days prior ( 7 instead of 5). One day prior to starting to reduce the salinity I noticed one of my fish was not as active and was hiding. When I looked at him more closely I saw the dark spots under his scales. I did a 35% water change (adding no salt back to the water) and another 25% change this morning. Since I still wasn't sure about the salt issue I only added 1 tbs for the 3 gallons of water I added back. The dark spots were originally only on his right side (close to the lowest fin on the side of his belly - sorry I don't know all the technical terms for their body parts! :( ) And another few behind the right side of his head.

This morning I also started giving the medi-gold food. As I mentioned before, since feeding this morning the fish has become more active but I am noticing more dark spots on the other side of his body and tiny black/dark specks on his face close to his eyes.

Hope this info is ok - if you feel I have missed anything let me know. I'll do a lrger water change tomorrow morning adding back the salt. All your advice is really appreciated. I wouldn't know where else to go! :(

Christine

P.S. Not sure if this is worth mentioning but I have been feeding them a homemade gel food fo the last month with Progold mixed into it.

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Well, It will certainly help if you can get a few good pictures of the darkening areas you are seeing. Without them, I am afraid I can't picture what your describing..... :unsure:

If you need some tips on geting good, clear shots, then don't hesitate to ask. ;)

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Hey Paul,

I'd realllllllly appreciate some tips as I haven't had much luck in the past getting good shots - either fish moves too much or they just aren't clear. The tiny snd like dark specks on the face of the fish are going to be really hard to see. It really just looks like tiny dark grains of sand - there are about 5 or 6. The dark spots look like bruising.

Tips would be great!! Thanks! :D

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Sure:

If your camera has an auto-lock for the focus, then utilize it. Find something that is about 1-2 feet from your camera and try to lock ion it. Once a lock is had, move the camera to the exact same distance from the target fish. Wait for the right moment and snap the pic. You can get two types of locks, one is when you keep your finger lightly pressed on the button or sometimes you can get a lock without having to keep your finger on the botton. Refer to your manual for more tips in that department.

Take the pictures at either a downwards facing angle, or a side angle. This keep the flash from bouncing directly back at your camera.

Take MANY, MANY pics and delete those that are no good. Usually one or two shots out of ten is a keeper.

Use the macro setting for up close shots. You can get some great detail with that setting and we might even be able to see the black specs you are seeing....

Good luck!

Paul

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Hi there,

Just a quick update n my lionhead.

I have been doing daily water changes and have him on the medi-gold. Since starting the medi-gold he has been his regular active self. He is eating well. The spots are on both sides - but they don't seems worse yet anyway! Still with the dark specks on his face.

Since there is a possibility that my tank wasn't yet cycled am I doing damage by doing these daily water changes? Or in situations like this does the priority become keeping the water clean?

Ok- so I continue daily water changes with salt until the situation improves. How do I know when things are better? Will the spots disappear or is it just his beahviour (eating, pooping, active) that let me know that he's ok?

Paul - I am workign on getting those pics. By the time I get home from work lately the light have gone off in the tank and the fish are sleeping - don't want to stress them by turning on the lights suddenly to take the pics :rolleyes: but hopefully tomorrow I will have some to post.

Thanks!

Christine

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