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Juwel Filter


sandy

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Many uk'ers have these god awful filters including myself so here is the turnover rate for each one in case anyone wants to work out how well or not its doing. When keeping goldies remember to have at least 10 times turnover no matter how many goldies you have.

For tropical keepers like myself the average turnover is 4 times for understocked tanks and around 6 times for full stocking levels. Of course the more filtration the better, but most tropicals dont like strong currents.

Juwel compact > 400 litres per hour

Juwel Standard > 600 litres per hour

Juwel Jumbo > 1000 litres per hour.

So as a for instance, my own 240 litre has the juwel with 600 litres per hour only giving it less than 3 times per hour filtration so i added another filter adding 1000 litres per hour top up. So 1600 litres per hour gives me a turnover of nearly 7 times per hour, which is loads better.

Hope that helps.

Maybe someone else can get flow rates for other types of filters.

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hi sandy, crikey, i have a 190L juwel tank with a compact filter so that means my tank water is only being turned over twice per hour that's terrible! what type of extra filter did you add. is it possible to add another juwel internal filter? i had a canister 104 filter on my last tank and i hated it as it was so noisy and a pain to maintain!

jamoko

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This is the filter i have but the next size up the 1000lph model.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Magi-Flow-INTERN...1QQcmdZViewItem

Its a fantastic little filter and you can add the spray bar to keep the water current from being too much for the goldies.

Theres very little in the way of fibre for a good bacteia colony but the juwel sponges provide adequate space.

Your tank is overstocked so you should get as much filtration as you can so say you bought the 700 and added the 400 then you have 1100 lph. That gives you a better turnover of nearly 6 times your tank capacity. Another filter to consider is the external eheim. More expensive but this would give you 750 lph if you got the eheim pro. It gives a huge area for bacteria growth and the benefit is you dont have another internal filter.

Heres the fluval external with 1300 lph so added to the juwel would give you nearly the 10 times you would need.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FLUVAL-404-EXTERNAL-...1QQcmdZViewItem

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Hi sandy, there is just so much to take in i have learnt loads the past couple of weeks from this forum! i will definitely add another filter but will spend a wee bit o time making the right decision, i like the look of the magi-flow 700 but then that'll only be 6x filtration in total, so i would try to track down the 1000 like yours.

the eheim pro looks worth investigating, but i dont know if that would be a practical choice for my tank as my tank lid hasn't got any major gaps that would allow the water pipes in and out (i'm assuming it's a similar set up to the canister 404) i had a canister 104 and hated it!

i'm off to my local pet store later so will have a look!

what type of media's are used in the magi-flow? as i'm planning to stop using the nitrate and carbon sponges in the juwel filter and add more blue sponges in their place?

also how many fish do you have if you still only have 7x filtration?

thanks

jamoko

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I have tropical fish which arent as messy as the goldies. I used to have goldies but sadly the water here is just too soft for them.

The sponge in the magi flow is only about three inches square so not a lot of room but it does need cleaning out more often than the juwels sponges. It looks like a juwel sponge but dark in colour. Theres also a bag of charcoal that comes with it as well which would be best removed and then you can have it for extracting impurities from the tank.

I have an eheim pro and honestly it is so quiet i have to go put my ear to it to make sure its still working lol.

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well i had a look in my local petstore and they had very little...best bet is prob ebay or online store!

so ideally i need 1900L/hr filtration! are there any filters either internal or external that by themselves can give me that extra 1500L/hr?

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I think 1200 lph is the most you can expect from any filter. Eheim is the best on the market for being quiet but i dont know what the top filtration is. Fluval 404 looks ok but its best to keep the juwel as it does have good biological surface area.

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the clearseal magi-flow is looking like the most suitable option purely based on my tank as, as i say i have no precut gaps in the lid for any hoses to come out to an external filter (whereas my last tank had) if i go for the 1000L/hr one (i cant find one bigger online) that will leave me with a 500L/hr shortfall, what effect would this have on the tank?

the only other way around this that i can think of without adding yet another filter would be to upgrade the juwel compact 400 to a juwel jumbo 1000 in addition to the 1000L magi-flow.

Is it possible to remove the existing supplied filter from my tank or is it there for life & how would you (if you can) attatch a 1000L juwel in it's place as there's no obvious means of attatchment with the 400L!!

thanks

jamoko

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Are you planning on upgrading your tank at any time or is that it for a good few years?

If you arent planning on upgrading then you may find that the as the fish grow then you will need to do more in the way of water changing, which is why having more filtration is best. Its not like your fish are going to really suffer if you havent got 10 times filtration, it just means that you will have to do more in the way of water changing to keep the tank fresh.

Being 500 lph short is better than only having such a low turnover now.

My husband cut out the room i needed for fixing in the arms of my eheim. I did have holes there but one side wasnt big enough.

To take these filters off is pretty hard as they are siliconed onto the sides of the tank. You will need a very sharp thin knife to get in and cut. The dimensions for the jumbo are 196mm x 156mm x 463mm so you will have to make sure you have the height ok,which is the last measurement, as the you wont want the motor head to be out the water. Your filter measures 136mm x 102mm x 382mm.

If you find it will fit then you will need to drain the tank to get the old one out get some silicone and dry the glass and wait for it to dry.

If you do go that way then you can hold back upgrading for a few more years.

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Just seen how many fish you have and eventually you will be needing a similar sized tank to split them or a 60 odd gallon tank just for them to grow comfortably in, so if you upgrade your filters then you might find a year or two down the line you will be needing to upgrade the tank they are in anyway.

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mmm.... after reading all that i'm still leaning towards the internal 1000lph.

i've only had this tank since may so have no plan to change for a while. I've always thought that the next time we move house i'd get a larger tank to upgrade to....partly to help with having a tank set up to move to, so i'd guess that'll be when i'll upgrade and i'll then have two tanks to play with.

Thanks for all your advice! i just wish i'd come across all this information 6 years ago .... i sometimes wonder how my fish have survived this learning curve i've been on :krazy:

Jamoko

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i think i have my problem solved... i hope :huh:

i have just ordered 2 magi-flow 700's

2x700lph +juwel400lph = 1800lph = 9.5x Filtration ....close enough i reckon!

the area squared of the two magi-flow 700's added together is just under 1/5 the size of my existing juwel 400 filter, so although i'm adding another 2 internal filters i'm only loosing a very small amount of tank space, and i think you'll agree this is a small sacrifice for 9.5x filtration

buying 1x1000lph magi-flow would have meant a 500lph shortfall and i'd only have been saving a tiny amount more tank room.

the juwel jumbo 1000 which i thought a possiblity is 3 times the size of my compact 400 so you can just imagine the space i'd have lost in the tank with that plus i'd have still needed the magi-flow 1000 to acheive 10x filtration.

I'm pleased with my final solution as now i don't have to cut into my tank to accomodate any awkward hoses!

Jamoko! :D

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That was well thought out, well done.

Remember that they dont have any way of reducing flow so be careful where you put them. If you find the flow rate too fast for your fish you can get something tall to place in front of them to break it up.

They will go through a cycle but hopefully not too much of one and remember to test your water to make sure the ammonia and nitrites done rise too much.

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thanks sandy! yes i'll be careful where i position them and make sure i keep an eye on the water with regular testing! so i presume all i need in each of the new filters is the sponge and some polywool to intercept the large particles. can't wait til they arrive to get started using them!

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Theres not much to them but be prepared to wash them out more than the juwel. I just watch for the performance to go down and that tells me when it needs doing.

Also, dont clean out the filters all at the same time, try to leave a few days between each one so as not to upset any bacteria.

Theres nowhere to put any pre filter as the bag of charcoal sits directly under the impellor so dont put anything there as it will be sucked up. Theres no room where the sponge sits either to add anything also.

To make the bacterial space a bit bigger you could maybe buy a new sponge for your juwel and carefully cut up an old one to fit in the vacant slot or even see if the new sponge can go there and the old sponge can be cut to fit the area where the new sponge sat so having the bacteria travel up to colonise the new sponge quicker.

Just an idea and something that i might try myself one day.

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does the charcoal do the same job as the the carbon? should i leave it in the new filters or remove it?

yes that just reminds me to buy more blue sponges now that i know i'm def keeping the juwel. i currently have 2 fine blue sponges in the bottom basket of the juwel with a gap above them, then in the top basket i have a coarse blue sponge at the bottom then the nitrate, carbon and topped off with a polypad. i am under the impression from the juwel instructions that the gap at the top of the bottom basket is to allow a partial return of some tank water to the tank while the rest is fed through the fine sponges.

so taken that i'll have 2 further gaps when nitrate and carbon are removed how many and in what order additional fine/coarse sponges should i add.

also when you say about cutting up old sponges do uyou mean to put into the new filters to kick start the bacteria forming?

thanks

jamoko

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The charcoal does the same as the carbon so take those out and put away until you need them.

Im not sure but you might be able to get a sponge in between the fine and the coarse, if so get a couple of those and another coarse. If not then it doesnt really matter which combo you get as long as you fit them in the correct order. I replaced both my black and green with different sizes.

Yes, dont fill the gap between the two baskets.

Yes as well with cutting up the old sponge and fitting it in the new filter and getting an old coarse sponge will keep the water flow going smoother.

With all these new sponges your tank may well have quite a spike while it cycles again. So maybe just for now exchange the coarse filter and leave the other juwel sponges until the new filters are up and running properly.

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Hi sandy, well my filters arrived today and i have just fitted them, i've removed the carbon bag from each one just leaving the sponge in. I'm waiting on new juwel sponges to arrive so when i get them i'll add aditional ones to the juwel and cut up an old one for the magi-flows as suggested. there is some noise of running water coming from the tank now as i attatched the spray bar to each one and have angled them towards each side of the back of the tank (as it's a corner job) in an attempt to keep the flow away from the fish as much as possible so as not to annoy them. i will have to keep an eye on them though to make sure they cope with it ok, and to keep an eye on the water while the filters run in.

Here's hoping to happier fish with 9.5xfiltration!

jamoko

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  • 3 weeks later...
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Hi sandy, I have a juwel filter which turns over 400 lph and an internal that turners over 800 lph.

You say you need 10 times for goldies regardless of the stocking level , but surely this is incorrect. if you are over stocked then you would need extra filtration plus frequent water changes.

I have 2 ranchu and a crown pearlscale in a 50 gallon tank and do 50% water changes every 3-5 days.

I posted a similar topic on a site based in singapore and most agree that my filtration set up is over the top?!?!

Just wondering what you feel about this?

cheers stuey

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I agree if you are overstocked then you do need to over filter but 10 times filration for goldfish is needed as they are huge waste producers.

Most people however only change about 25 - 30% of the tank water per week so the use of so much filtration is needed.

I notice that you do 50% every 3 to 5 days which is fantastic but not everyone does that.

As you do such large water changes anyway you probably dont need so much in the way of filtration but i always think more is better.

Just to say as well that the juwel is made in germany mainly for the continental market.

They dont see fishkeeping as us brits and the americans do prefering to keep planted tanks as opposed to fish tanks and maybe only adding a couple of fish as something to look at, whereas we are the opposite and prefer to stock the tanks with fish.

For tropical tanks stocked at the limit then 6 times filtration would be needed to keep everything happy and goldfish up to maximum stocking i would still say need the 10 times filtration but if you go over the stocking limit then i really believe that over filtering is only a temporary solution and a bigger tank is ultimately needed.

There will always be differences in opinions and you just really need to use your judgement as to what works for you.

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hi sandy....can you give me your opinion on this cheers :)

Allow me to expound further why flow rate and filtration time can be at times contradictory especially for beginners and calculating it to achieve an ideal further compounds confusion. A higher flow rate does not tantamount to a better filtration rate.Generally speaking ,the longer the polluted water is held within the filtration system the better the chance of achieving complete nitrification process.The most time consuming process would be the breaking down of DOC into its inorganic components.If insufficient time is allowed to facilitate this breakdown then intermediate or incomplete nitrification products would be pump back to the main tank again defeating the main objective of having a filter system.

Now comes the confusion.The above makes sense however the flow rate is equally important as it measures how fast your water are being processed.The lower a flow rate means it will take a considerable time to filter off the entire water system.However one must not be drawn into calculating the volume of water involved but rather the number of fish kept and the amount of food fed which are far more significant.The latter two yield the resultant metabolic ammonia not the water.It is suffice to say here the higher the stocking level and the more one feeds,an increase in flow rate is essential for effective ammonia removal.So what you come across as a recommendation in the net or text is just a general guide rather than a rule as one has to factor stocking rate/feeding frequency (indirectly ammonia production)to determine an acceptable flow rate.

At the end of the day if you have some basic requirements of an effective filter with an acceptable flow rate and have a couple of healthy fish to show, then I believe you are not far off from achieving a conducive environment for your fishes to live and grow without having to struggle consistently to upkeep your water conditions.Ultimately that is what matters most .Not too much technicality or it will kill off any hobby I'm sure.

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hi sandy....can you give me your opinion on this cheers :)

Allow me to expound further why flow rate and filtration time can be at times contradictory especially for beginners and calculating it to achieve an ideal further compounds confusion. A higher flow rate does not tantamount to a better filtration rate.Generally speaking ,the longer the polluted water is held within the filtration system the better the chance of achieving complete nitrification process.The most time consuming process would be the breaking down of DOC into its inorganic components.If insufficient time is allowed to facilitate this breakdown then intermediate or incomplete nitrification products would be pump back to the main tank again defeating the main objective of having a filter system.

Now comes the confusion.The above makes sense however the flow rate is equally important as it measures how fast your water are being processed.The lower a flow rate means it will take a considerable time to filter off the entire water system.However one must not be drawn into calculating the volume of water involved but rather the number of fish kept and the amount of food fed which are far more significant.The latter two yield the resultant metabolic ammonia not the water.It is suffice to say here the higher the stocking level and the more one feeds,an increase in flow rate is essential for effective ammonia removal.So what you come across as a recommendation in the net or text is just a general guide rather than a rule as one has to factor stocking rate/feeding frequency (indirectly ammonia production)to determine an acceptable flow rate.

At the end of the day if you have some basic requirements of an effective filter with an acceptable flow rate and have a couple of healthy fish to show, then I believe you are not far off from achieving a conducive environment for your fishes to live and grow without having to struggle consistently to upkeep your water conditions.Ultimately that is what matters most .Not too much technicality or it will kill off any hobby I'm sure.

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So what that says is that though you can have lots of filtration but if you dont have the large amount of filter media to house plenty of bacteria then its basically useless but if you have lots of fish then you need the large turnover rate to cope with the waste produced?

So the juwel though crap at water turnover is great for the storage of good bacteria because it has a good amount of media.

In fact its the best filter going for this but the flow rate to get the tank water moving round is ludicrous as it doesnt turnover enough to keep goldfish healthy. If you understocked with tropical fish then yes it would be ok to run on its own.

Even if you add another smaller filter just to get the water moving then you have a better system.

With my juwel filter which i have tropicals i added a clear seal filter with 1000 lph turnover. It may not have the sponge and media capability of the juwel but it gets that water moving.

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but goldfish are essentially pond fish , so dont appreciate current.

therefore it is more essential that more media is in the filter , to house bb , than turnover rates? I hope you know im not trying to argue.

lfs's obviusly promote over filtration because it means increased sales...but im not convinced.

Im sure sandy you'll agree that im changing 50% water every 3 days is suffivient.

Im glad and hope to continue talking to you :D

it is rare to find goldie lovers in the uk

stuey

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I get your point i really do, but keeping goldfish in a tank is an artificial environment as is the same for tropicals so you have to try and get the balance right. In nature theres a huge area for bacteria to colonise and if its a large pond then the ratio of carp to water is greater and nature strikes the right balance which isnt in an aquarium.

We as fish keepers have to find an artificial way of keeping the balance and thats through either lots of water changes which you are doing with lots of media or over filtering with a smaller media load and fewer water changes. Its just that you have got the balance right for your fish.

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