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Guest Vex

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Hello guys, I was very thankful for finding Koko's. I am about to tell you something that you have heard hundreds of times lol.

I am new to Goldfish keeping, and I recieved a 10 gallon tank for my b-day. I was very excited. I only wish I knew the things I knew before I came to Koko's. I had set up my 10 gallon Top Fin tank and got everything running. I had read the steps that a Pets Mart pamplet on Goldfish keeping had listed.

So following this pamplet I left the aquarium going for 24-hours before I got fish for it. I feel really bad now, knowing that I should of had the aquarium cycled before adding my goldfish. And of course again, not knowing that I would be overstocked I bought three goldfish : 2 Ryukins and a Common.

To make a long story short, I just want to make sure I am doing everything to make my fish happy. My aquarium has been running now for 2 weeks and I have had the 3 Goldfish in there for about 11 days. I have been doing 25% water changes every other day. Feeding once a day - Omega One flakes which I let soak for a minute before feeding. I also just got a air filter and bubbler a day ago, not knowing that this was important for Goldfish. I guess I just assumed that the power filter did everything.

I am guessing that my tank is still cycling, my readings from last water test -

ph - 8.0

Ammonia - 1.0

Nitrite - 0

Nitrate - 0

Any reccommendations for these readings are welcome. I dont know how high the Ammonia can get before it gets dangerous for the fish, I know there shouldnt be any but in the cycling process I think it needs to be there if I am not mistaken. I am also using Prime during water changes. Also before the nitrites show up, should I be adding salt yet? My guess is to wait until they show up for the salt.

I have found my new hobby and I am so glad I found Koko's. So far my Goldfish (Nemo,Captain,Flounder) seem to be doing fine. I have plans to replace my 10g with at least a 20g. I have Gold Pro, Spirulina flakes, Medi-Gold and the book Fancy Goldfish on the way, and I am very excited.

One last question I promise. When I recieve the medi-gold in about a week, Rick recommended somewhere on the site to feed the Goldfish in a new aquarium the medi-gold for 14-30 days. When the food gets here my fish will have been in my aquarium for 2 weeks. Should I feed them the medi-gold when I recieve, or just start them on the Pro Gold?

Sorry for the long post, I wanted to make sure all the info was there and I am sure I still missed some things. Thank you in advance for your help.

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Guest jimmy_396_jimmy

the ammonia is harmful to your fish at 1.0 it would be safe at 0.0- 0.25

as for the tank you need like a 40 gallon

also do have enough filtration gph?

i suggest using salt , and more water changes to lower the ammonia, maybe you should get a rubbermaid tub?

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  • Regular Member

Hi :welcome

I comend you for asking questions...its shows you want to learn whats best for your fish..thats great!

OK you already know you need a bigger tank so I wont go there :)

For now cycling is hard on fish

Id recomend getting amonia down to 0.25 at the most and try to keep it stable with frequent changes.

You need a small amount in order to cycle but not to much that it harms the fish

This is like walking a tightrope!

Also read:

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/cycle.html

Its all about cycling a tank

As for salt, this is great when your NitrItes kick in (aprox day 10-11 depending on conditions and water temp)

The salt will help protect the fish from the NitrItes.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/NitritesAndSaltQuestion.html

Also as your cycling Id recomend posting in the water chemestry section of the forum as there are many people there with alot of experience on water chemesty and cycling a tank.

Best of luck!

by the way......I am curently starting day 1 of a new 10 gal tank so I will be cycling aswell.. :krazy:

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  • Regular Member

WELCOME! :D

i think these guys have answered most of your questions already!

i think you are doing your very best to care for your new buddies as i must admit when i got my first goldfish, it was 2 commons in a little plastic bowl and water changes once a week :unsure: then i found this site and thought.. oh ****!

so dont hesitate to ask anything, someone will be there to answer!

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  • Regular Member

:welcome

Yeah, I think a lot of us started off on the wrong foot with goldfish before finding Koko's. Now we do the best we can to keep our fish happy and I'm sure that's what you'll do too. Good Luck! And keep that ammonia down!

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Thank you guys for all the info, I will continue water changes. I will also get it salted today, I just thought the salt was for the nitrite's but I guess it helps with the ammonia too.

I did not leave a tub of water out for the water change this time, and I think I need to do another change. Is it ok if I am adding prime to go ahead and just feel the tub and change? I read that it is best to let the water sit over night, but maybe I will be ok.

As far as my gph, I feel bad, because I lost the papers (think they got thrown away) on my filter. It is a Top Fin 10, I may need more filtration. If so what do you guys recommend? I dont want to mess up the cycling but wouldn't mind doing anything that is best for my fish. I also am out of room on the lid openings of the tank to fit another filter, any info is appreciated.

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I use Amquel + (I think the process is the same for Prime though) - it is supposed to detox the ammonia as soon as you put it in the water. So, you should be OK.

I think you may have the same setup as I do. The Tip Fin 10 is a little too small, but you've already started cycling with it, so you wouldn't want to lose that. There are two options -

1) you can cut a bigger opening in the hood and add another filter (that is what I did)

2) or you can just get a bigger filter and take the filter bag from the Top Fin filter and slide it in along side the filter bag for the new filter, this way any biobugs that you have accumulated will transfer onto the new filter bag

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  • Regular Member

Welcome! He he! Soon you'll be begging for a larger tank, just like me!

As for a second filter, look for a Whisper Internal filter. Their for like turtle tanks and tanks that dont have openings in the back, they basicly sit inside the tank, a very neat thing!

You will need to either get rid of 2 of the fish, get more tanks or get a larger tank eventually, just so ya know. but It sounds like you love these guys very much, so I doubt that you'll have a problem with it. :D

Good luck!

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I just wanted to make sure I have this right. I can add salt for the stress that ammonia may have already caused my fish? And does the salt also help get rid of, or detox the ammonia?

I guess my next step is to get another filter, and add it to the existing one. Will this affect the cycling that is already in process? What would be the best filter for me to add to the existing one?

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Hi :) It sounds like you are going to be a really great fish parent! First off, do you have a water conditioner? This is VERY important since there are so many harmful substances in water. If you don't, I'd recomend getting one that will detoxify ammonia (such as amquel or prime) and such since you are cycling, and as said above, its very hard on goldies, especially so many in a tank. I started out with a top fin filter for a ten gallon tank as well. It filters 80 gallons per hour. It should really be ten with one goldfish in there. Top fin doesn't really make the best filters, but they DO have a lifetime guarentee. I'm planning on trying to return mine, but I've been warned that they don't stand behind their promise. MAKE them stand behind their promise if you would like to return it instead of getting a second filter. Good filters are penguins, aquaclears, whispers etc. I'm sure others can help you with more names. Do you have any spare tubs? They are great for extra goldfish :) Glad to hear you have a test kit! I'd test the water every day for ammonia for now, and later for nitrites, and later nitrates. Do a 20% water change if the ammonia gets above .25. Its always best at zero, but you'll be doing like five water changes a day that way. I'm guessing you won't need to feed medicated food by then unless they are looking stressed or sick by the time it arrives. Its a VERY handy thing to have around tho. You certainly are off to a good start :) I hope you enjoy the goldfish world!

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  • Regular Member

Hi Vex, Nemo, Captian, and Flounder! You have had lots of great advice - so I will say - Enjoy your new hobby and your fish! You will be amazed how much you can do for them just by being informed - I think you are going to be a great fishy mom, too! :D

PS - Oh yeah! Your questions:

Salt - usually added to help protect gill function during the nitrIte (it helps, but it is not a preventive altogether) - so you need not add it until you see NitrIte getting getting and then you can leave off with it if you choose not to keep a salted tank (open debate).

Salt helps fight symptoms of stress as it acts as a mild irritant, stimulant slime coat production. Slime coat is the first layer of defense in fish immunity form disease. Often, salt is recommended for new fish because they often come from the store with soem kind of communal disease - often treatable!

Salt will not reduce or detox ammonia - until you are cycled, an Ammonia neutrilizer will be helpful - but depending on which one you use, you will need the right test to make sure the test reading is accurate (ammonia will be neutralized, therefore, not harmful, but still present int he water - so you will want to make sure that your test is reading the toxic levels accurately while you are cycling).

Ammonia - is combatted only through water changes! Until the tank is fully cycled.

Filter - You won't mess up the cycle by adding another filter! By adding another one now, you will have two cycled filters (meaning all the good bacteria have grown there) at the same time which will make your tank more stable and you will have more flexibilty during tank maintenance - and upgrades!

How large are your fish?! Many of us started just like you, the more you learn now, the more time you will have to plan for the necessary upgrades! :exactly How long do you think you have to keep them in a ten gallon before you can upgrade the tank size?

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Sorry to double post - I was editing to put this in a more readable format and I timed out (and I cannot type to save my life)! :( Again - with some additons:

PS - Oh yeah! Your questions:

I will also get it salted today...

Salt - usually added to help protect gill function during the nitrIte spike (it helps, but it is not a preventive to toxicity altogether) - so you need not add it until you see NitrIte getting high and then you can leave off with it if you choose not to keep a salted tank (not right or wrong - a matter of taste - open for debate).

I can add salt for the stress that ammonia may have already caused my fish?

Salt helps fight symptoms of stress as it acts as a mild irritant, thus stimulating slime coat production. Slime coat is the first layer of defense in fish immunity from disease. Often, salt is recommended for new fish because they often come from the store with some kind of communal disease - often treatable! Often, the salt will be enough to prevent an outbreak; e.g. Ich.

And does the salt also help get rid of, or detox the ammonia?

Salt will not reduce or detox ammonia - until you are cycled, an Ammonia neutrilizer will be helpful - but depending on which one you use, you will need the right test to make sure the test reading is accurate (ammonia will be neutralized, therefore, not harmful, but still present int he water - so you will want to make sure that your test is reading the toxic levels accurately while you are cycling).

Ammonia - is combatted only through water changes! Until the tank is fully cycled. And conditoners like Prime* (see below*)

I guess my next step is to get another filter, and add it to the existing one. Will this affect the cycling that is already in process?

Filter - You won't mess up the cycle by adding another filter! By adding another one now, you will have two cycled filters (meaning all the good bacteria have grown there) at the same time which will make your tank more stable and you will have more flexibilty during tank maintenance - and upgrades!

What would be the best filter for me to add to the existing one?

I will have to see what the gph is on your tank now - but it would help you shose if you can have an idea of waht size tank you might want to upgrade to, and what time frame - so maybe you can add a filter that will work on your bigger tank whrnt he time comes!

Is it ok if I am adding prime to go ahead and just feel the tub and change? I read that it is best to let the water sit over night, but maybe I will be ok.

If you are adding Prime, you do not have the water out overnight - you can add it right away.

BTW -

How large are your fish?! Many of us started just like you, the more you learn now, the more time you will have to plan for the necessary upgrades! :exactly How long do you think you have to keep them in a ten gallon before you can upgrade the tank size?

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Graham thanks so much for your post, it was very helpful and informative. I am really running out of space in my room, and I just got this tank as a gift. So I hope the goldies will be ok for like a month in there. Nemo (Ryukin) - is my biggest he is probably about 3 inches. Captain (Ryukin) is 2 inches. Flounder (Common) is 2 inches.

I guess what I would plan on doing is getting a 30gal in about a month, so I guess I need to know what filter would be best to add to my 10gal that already has the Top Fin 10 on it, sorry do not know the gph because I threw the papers away I think. I will probably buy the one that someone(experienced Goldfish Keeper) suggest so please put some thought into the reply. And I would want to add this filter that I will purchase to my new 30gal in about a month. Do you think that my fish will be ok for a month? Actually, I guess it would be about a month and 2 weeks leaving the period of time for my new tank to cycle.

I really think that my Goldies will be ok after I get them over the hump of the cycle. And after I get them into a little bit larger tank. The two smaller ones seem a little stressed sometimes. I guess that would be because of the ammonia. I will continue water changes daily, and I add prime every water change so hopefully that will get the ammonia down.

Thanks again guys for all your helpful info, I wish I knew as much as some of you guys do. And I guess that will just come with experience. Although I do not mind asking questions. This hobby has been very addicting and fun :D

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Ok I have done some thinking and here are my plans. I think I am just going to go look at 20gallons and see if I can find a good home for the common and keep the ryukins in a 20gal. Would I need to cycle the new tank or could I use the water and filter from the 10 gal and not cycle? I would of course add a new filter. Any ideas on what a good 20gal filter would be? If this does not sound like a good idea please let me know.

And also if this doesn't sound like a good plan I guess I can just wait till I have room for a 30 gal. But I guess my question still stands of if you have one tank, instead of cycling the new tank, can you add the water and filter and not have to cycle the new tank?

Just seems like I am doing all the steps backwards, but because of Koko's I think my fish have a good chance of coming out of all this healthy.

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Ok I have gone to Pets Mart and I found a nice 30gal. I dont know if I should get it yet though. Since my tank isnt finished cycling would it be ok to put the water and the fish in the 30gal or should I not put my fish through all of this again? I would really like an excuse to get the 30gal, but I want my fish to be happy and I really dont have room for both tanks in my room. Again any suggestions would be appreciated.

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  • Regular Member

if your up for it, you can order BioSpira, it will cycle your tank in 24-48 hours i beleive.. kinda pricy, but from what I hear, the new version is a miracle!

the way I see it, no matter what tank you have, its gunna need to be cycled. waiting untill the 10 is cycled I dont FEEL (my opinon here) will matter, since you'll have to cycle the 30 ANYWAYs... but adding your water from the ten will boost it a bit In my opnion. (cant hurt)

We have all been where you are, (well, everyone I know has! lol!) dont stress to much, as long as the fish are kickin' theres a chance. :D

**edit- basicly, if you want that 30, get it ;) but hang onto the ten, just store it. you'll thank me later! I guarantee it!

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Ok thanks for the advice magic. I will probably go get the 30gal tomorrow. And look into getting the BioSpira. Thanks also to everyone else for their advice on this post.

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Ok now I think I have some problems, I have been watching my fish closely today because Captain (Calico Ryukin) was acting kinda weird. So I kept watching closely. Of course me being the newb about Goldfish that I am, I would find something crawling on Captain.

So I kept watching and whatever it was came off and started kinda like swimming. So I was like I have to get it out. So I got my net and I managed to get it out. Probably one of the grosest things I have seen. I got it on a paper towel where I could see it. It was still moving. It is some kind of fish parasite. Possibly fish lice or something of the like.

This was the only one that I could see and I have examined my fish closely. I am just scared there are more even though I cannot see them in the tank.

So my plan of getting a new tank, I am not sure if that is a good idea with this happening. I know that if I keep this tank I will need to salt and probably get something that would kill whatever this parasite is. Two out of the three fish are showing signs of stress, it could be because of the process of the cycle or it could be because of this parasite that I recently discovered.

I hope that someone will have some good suggestions, and so far I really have come out of this Goldfish keeping on the wrong foot. But hopefully I will come out of this an experienced Keeper.

I have continued water changes to keep the ammonia down. I am still cycling, and my nitrites have not yet showed up.

So I dont know, maybe getting a new tank is a good idea. I just need to make sure these parasites do not follow my fish. I hope someone can help me with this problem.

Thanks again guys for all of your help, you have been great.

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  • Regular Member

I would go ahead and buy the new tank. A bigger tank and bio-spira will keep the params at zero and keep stress to a minimum, which is vital for them, especially since parasites are in the picture now.

Did the parasite look like a greenish grey worm? Or was it round? I'd go out to the fish store and buy an external parasite medication pronto. Parasites are bad news for fishies...The fish probably came with them, so no worries about doing anything wrong. They are probably stressed from both being sick and cycling, but cycling with sick fish is a very VERY hard thing to do. Good luck :)

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  • Regular Member

i would still get the new tank, and when you bio-spira or not, add a bit of a copperbased medication (like quIckCure) and it should kill any lice or other parasites. (and quickcure is about $3! my favorite parasite med at work)

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