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Sucking Air?


Guest Morten33

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Guest Morten33

Hello, I have a question about one of my fish. He is spending a lot of time at the top of the tank. Not floating like fish do when they have SPD, but just with his mouth at the top sucking air it looks like or sometime just up there. not sure why he would be doing this? He didn't use to do this so often, so i don't know what the change could be.

Also, I have a question about my new Oranda. (if i need to split these questions up on two different postings let me know) I have a 42gal tank. I have two bubbleEyes and one black Moore and one Oranda. I have had the Oranda and black moor for a couple weeks. The Moore fits in well with my bubbleEyes, but the Oranda is kinda bossy and pushes the others around. And at feeding time it is hard to keep her from eating ALLL the food. She is so much faster than the others and a lot better of finding the food. I've tried to do different things, but it would be nice to feed the fish and not have to have my arm in the tank trying to keep her away, or show the other fish were the food is once or twice every day. Plus I think she is starting to get too much food. I feel bad about taking her back to the pet store now that she has gotten to be in a big tank. but she is becoming kind of a hassle. Any suggestions?

Water Perams- I change the water every 6 to 8 days. / I feed Progold and peas

Ammonia - 0

Nitrate ? 30?.just did a water change two days ago, don?t know why it?s kida high?

Nitrite -0

Hardness ? 130

Alkalinity-120

PH ? 7.3

Thanks!

Emily

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Hi Mort! :D

Can I assume that the fish sucking surface water is the moor? If so, then the feeding competiion is why you are seeing him at the surface so much. He is growing and needs more and more food. He also has just about the poorest eyesight a goldfish can have (next to total blindness) The competiion for food is leaving him blindly sucking at the surface in hopes of finding scraps that were missed.

There are ways to handle this without returning any fish. I very much like the idea of a feeding bin for the moor and/or the bubble eyes. Something like a breeder net w/frame. the breeder net hangs off of the front of the tank and allows them to remain in the water, but separated. You put them, or the oranda into it when you go to feed everyone. Feed accordingly, then remove the breeder net when theyre done. Everyones fed, everyones happy.

I hope I am correct about this being a moor. I dont usually assume stuff like that. :)

Paul

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Another idea if you can not get a feeding bin yet....till then try a divider. You can make one up from some glass or fish safe material. If your tank has glass slats for a top as mine does you can place one in to seperate the fish when feeding. Or a lid to a large container could be used, get creative as long as the material is fish safe until you can get a hold of the feeding bin toothless mentioned.

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Guest Morten33

Actually it's one of my bubbleEyes thats sucking at the surface. I have noticed my pour moore (Louie) sees worse than my bubbleEyes. I tried putting the moore in a pitcher that I use when doing water changes and put food in there with him, but he was too freaked out to eat any of it. I am going to try and get a divider or something to help with the feeding situation.

Any other ideas about my bubbleEye (Morton) sucking at the surface? I am worried about him. He is my favorite fish (i don't tell the other fish that) but he is. He lets me handle him, or if i am feeding he will swim right up into my had to try and get first dibs at the food. He swims in spirals down to the bottom of the tank or will swim upside down at the bottom of the tank to see where the food is sometimes. He is just a really funny fish with lots of personality. I am so worried there is something wrong. I do know that he is actually a she. I don't know if this makes any difference at all, but i thought i would add that in. I don't leave the bubble wand on very often, is that something they need? Would that have anything to do with him sucking air?

Thanks for the suggestions about feeding.

Emily

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Hmmm, well, being that Morten is a bubble eye, then he is just about on the same parallel as moors, as far as handicaps and feeding being a problem. So, I imagine that what I posted above could very well pertain to Morten too. Its hard to say, really. :huh:

So, is he sitting at the water return of the filter, sitting in one place, or does it resemble grazing, just at the surface?

One thing to consider is that if they are all still growing, then their food intake should increase. Do you make special note of increasing feedings as they grow? Just a thought.

I am still thinking that feeding has something to do with this. It could also have to do with the new fish as well. Keep a real close eye on the oranda, even at night. Make sure hes not bullying anyone too bad. This might turn out to be the source of the problem.

I gues just take notes on observations and keep us posted. Not much else to do at this point..... :)

Paul

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  I don't leave the bubble wand on very often, is that something they need? Would that have anything to do with him sucking air?

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I agree with what toothless said aswell regarding the feeding

but to also adress your above question

Yes if they do not have airation then they will suck air from the surface...it indicates there is not enough oxygen in the water

Try to leave the bubblewall on and see if he stops sucking air at the surface.

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Guest Morten33

I think they are ALL getting enough food. I have to be careful, if I feed too much Morton gets SBD. Now instead of being at the top of the take all day, he has been staying at the bottom in the corner where he takes naps and sleeps at night. I just turned the light on and he came up from his corner and has been sucking air at the top in the same place now for 3 minutes. He is really worrying me. I am going to turn the bubble wand on. And I gave my Oranda to my vet that has a big fish tank in his office today. So there won't be any other feeding problems. I am just worried about Morton?s odd behavior. I did another water test today and a small water change. Tests still are the same. I am just going to keep an eye on him. Thanks for everyone?s advice, if you think of anything else let me know.

Emily

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Guest Morten33

Sense my last post I have noticed Morton swimming around the tank more. I think he is glad the Oranda is gone. They all seem kinda glad. They are all swimming in all parts of the tank now. I made the decision to find the Oranda a new home because last night I caught him trying to nibble on one of my bubbleEyes bubbles. I think he was picking on both my bubbleEyes. So anyway, I have turned the bubble wand on and I am going to keep it on to see if that helps with Morton sucking air. It just seems like it creates a lot stronger current...I may even try and get a small one or something.

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Guest Morten33

Morton is really ill. I have another post on him that i have been trying to get help on. Dropsey I think is the name of it. I don't think it's Dropsey now, but maybe a parasite or bacteria infection. I am so worried I can hardly think straight. If one of you has time, check it out for me and let me know if you guys have any suggestions.

thanks a bunch!

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Guest Morten33

Morton's scales look okay now. Ht is not bloated at all. I treated my tank with Parasite Clear. Then I moved Morton to a 2gal tub because my Black Moore nibbled at Morton's hurt fin and Mort just let him. I did some research to try and figure out what was wrong with Morton. I was able to figure out that the red spot on his fin was Septicemia. But his other symptoms....sluggish, gasping air/water, hiding, sleeping a LOT. He didn't have any SPECIFIC signs for Dropsy or parasites ect. So I decided to treat the tank with FURAN-2 which is supposed to help with Bacterial diseases including Dropsy, Gill disease, fin and tail rot and Hemorrhagic Septicemia (red streaks). I used some clean de-chlorinated water and some of the water from the tank that I was treating for the 2gal tub I was keeping Morton in. I have to treat for 4 days. In the mean time I also used Get-Tek Bacterial infection food. I am on the 3ed day and just moved Morton back to the big tank because he is doing a LITTLE bit better. I am still monitoring very closely. Problem is now that one of my other BubbleEyes seems really bloated. I am not seeing signs of the pineconed scales on her, just the bloating. And for some reason that fish and the Moore have been pooping NONE STOP!!! I can't even explain how much they have been going. I was feeding them normally and by the 2nd day when I started noticing all the poop, I stopped feeding. (That was yesterday). But again today there is still more poop. A LOT of it! There is more poop coming from the two of them than when I had 4 fish in the tank. I don't know WHAT the heck it?s coming from. I had to take out the filter cartridges while treating it so it seems dirty with a lot of stuff floating in the water. I don't know if they are eating that stuff or what. And like i said the other bubbleEye is bloated, mostly right behind her gills. Not further down where he stomach is. Does anyone know anything about bloating right behind the gills!? Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to give the last 3day history so it might help someone help me.

Thank you in advance for any more help!!!

Emily

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Treat the whole tank with all the fish in it with parasite clear. If this is parasitic in nature, wich it could be, they have all been exposed and the entire tank needs treatment.

If you are using gravel in their tank, try vacuuming the gravel REALLY well throughout all of this treatment. Could their constant pooing be from eating leftover food in the gravel? If not, then you are simply overfeeding them. Reduce feeding acordingly.

Bloating right behind the gills is most likely something to do with their gills. Parasites are often invloved with the gills as well.

I honestly think that they should ALL be on med-food and parasite clear and salt..... ;)

Paul

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Guest Morten33

Well like I said, I have been treating the entire tank with all the fish in it with both Parasite clear AND the bacteria stuff. I just took some of the water out of the tank i was treating to use in the "hospital tank" for Morton. I figured like you said, that if Morton was ill that the other two fish had a good chance of getting what ever it is he had. As for the food and the pooping. I've had the fish for about 8 months, and in that time I?ve figured out that one to one and a 1/2 ProGold pellets soaked and cut in two is enough for one fish. This is a small amount. And like i said, i haven?t fed them at all now for 3 days and the poo is still coming. I have a mostly barebottom 42gal tank, with about 3 handfuls of gravel in two of the corners to help with the good bio bugs. so there isn't any left over food in them. I go threw and clean it out daily with a turkey baster. So still confused with all the poo. Unless they are eating leaves or something off the plants (which they haven't done before). I will just keep an eye on them. I was just now in the last 10 minutes able to add the carbon back to the filters and i will be doing a 25% water change. I am going to clean out the tank as best i can, and then treat with the Parasite Clear again in 24hrs.

:crp

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Thats right, sorry, I get some cases a little jumbled at times. I've been really busy in here. :)

Hmmm, well, there are only 3 reasons why a goldie would poo so profusely; overfeeding, constipation releasing, or they are getting some source of food such as plants and whatnot. Is there anyone in the household that might be feeding them besides you?

Incidentely, you said that they might possibly be eating plants? If you have plants in this tank, it might be a good idea to remove them. There are several parasites that are "free-living" organisms that can become parasitic to fish. Plants can support these parasites life cycles indefinitely. When treating for parasites, the absolute best way to treat is in a sterile environment, or as close to it as you can get. Removal of ALL unnecessary items from the water column is highly suggestable as it removes hiding places for cysts, eggs and free living parasites. In short, reducing the number of parasites around the fish greatly increases the time it takes to eradicate them.

In 90% of "localised dropsy" cases, parasites are to blame. Conversely, in just about every case, that I have dealt with and read about, of swelling just behind the gills, parasites were involved. When the parasites where eradicated, the swelling decreased. BUT, it takes time for the swelling to decrease. The whole idea of the swelling is that osmoregulation is impeded due to bacterial infection. Once the parasites are gone, the bacterial infection remains for the fish to fight off. This, very often takes from a few days to a week or more.

I'm not saying that this IS exactly whats happening. Unless I were there with a scope, I can't be positive. But, The signs are there.....

I cant think of any other disease charts that your talking about, that is still around anyway, except this one: http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/

I hope this helps a bit.......

Paul

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Guest Morten33

YOU ARE AWESOME! This is the most information and explanation I have gotten so far, THANK YOU!

The plants, I THINK that is what they might be eating. I live alone so no one else is feeding them. But I am going to take them out anyway because of the info you told me. Is there a way to start fresh with live plants in the future? Like maybe a way to clean them first or maybe a specific type that is less likely to have parasite stuff? I really like the look of live plants, but I don't want to have anything that could hurt my babies! And you know what, now that I think about it, I brought home two kinds of new plants about 3 or 4 weeks ago, so who knows...maybe they could have contributed.

I did 1 treatment with Parasite Clear last Friday; later that day is when I started the FURAN-2 which was finally completed today. I did about a 25 to 30 % water change and put the carbon filter things back in. I am going to keep them in all night. Then tomorrow I am going to do another round of the Parasite clear. I'm going to salt the tank as well. I have Gel.Tek food that treats internal/external bacterial infections. I will feed that to the one with the swelling behind the gills. Hopefully the combination of the two will help him.

Morton, the one that got sick first...he is swimming a lot more and acting a little more normal, so I am praying he is on the mend. Question---I have been told that "sucking air" is caused from a low amount of oxygen in the water and to keep the bubble wand on. But what if it's only ONE fish that is doing the air sucking? Could that mean he is doing it from something else or that the low oxygen is just affecting him instead of the other two fish?

Thank you again for all your help, and suggestions!

I am going to go check out that site you sent and SAVE it.

Emily

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Well, sucking air CAN be indicative of the presence of low o2 levels. However, if your filtration is on par with the recommended GPH and there is added aeration, the 02 level of the water is not the problem. In your instance, it is more likely to be that he is RECIEVING low 02 levels, this can be caused by bacterial/parasitic infections. Excess mucus and swelling can certainly cause this as well.

As I said before, I cannot be for sure, but all the facts certainly point us in the direction of parasites and/or bacterial gill infection.

There are ways to disinfect plants, if you still want to keep them around. The best way is to get yourself some potassium permanganate (KMn04) or Permoxyn by Kordon. Permoxyn IS pot-perm. Dose the plants at a rate of 2-4ppm for at least 4 hours. Overnight is usually fine and recommended. If you cannot get yourself the PP in either pure, crystaline form, or Permoxyn, then a 20:1 water/bleach ratio should be used as a dip for the plants. But, the dip is known to negatively effect plants. But, they can and do, very often, grow back with some time and care.

In all honesty, I do not believe that goldfish should be kept in planted aquariums because of the risk of parasitic infections. Unless of course, were talking about a large pond. As you may have read, parasites can lie "dormant" for very long periods. So, you may not even know there are parasites in a planted tank until the parameters get a little screwy. Too much of a risk if you ask me. But, it is often done very successfully. The key is to do it right........ ;)

Paul

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Guest Morten33

It's been 24hrs of the Parasite Clear treatment. It said after 48 I can do a 25% water change and treat again. The fish that is swollen behind his gills is still acting normal, so that?s good. The one that had the original issues with sucking air, and not swimming around is not doing so good. He seemed like he was feeling better when I first put him back into the tank. Now that I have cleaned out the tank, removed the live plants and am treating again for Parasites I assumed he would continue getting better. But I don't think he is, he's staying at the bottom of the tank all the time in his little corner. He comes up to eat when I feed but other than that he lies listless at the bottom. I wish I knew what the heck is wrong with him. I may not do the 2nd round of the Parasite Clear and go to the website you posted earlier and get some medication from them. I wish he could tell me what hurts or what he feels like....all I know for sure is that he doesn?t feel good enough to swim around. He used to be my most lively fishy. If there is anything else you can think of that I can do let me know.

Thanks again for all your help!

Emm

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Do you still have the bubblewall on? or any other form of airation?

I can not help with the parasites, your in great hands with toothy there.

Follow his advice and just make sure there is adequate airation if he still sucking at the sufrface

I sure hope he imroves!

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Well, lets review your tank and its dynamics. Is it possible that the currents in the tank have changed? Maybe the currents have increased enough so that it isn't comfortable. See if you can tell if the currents seem to be too strong or too direct. Utilize some silk/plastic plants and whatnot to break up the currents a bit and see if that helps any.

Make sure to keep the salinity stable.

You can run the PC treatment 4-5 times total. for goldfish, the idea is to allow the acriflavin in the PC tablets to remain in the aquarium water for 8-10 days. I am still trying to pry info from Jungle about the ppm of acriflavin in one dose. So far, its "proprietary"......

Good luck. Keep us updated.

Paul

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Guest milylester

I've just glanced over this thread but couldn't see if you'd given your nitrite reading!!

My goldies used to suck at the top before I moved them into a bigger tank with a better filter and fully cycled it. I think this was because nitrites were too high in the old tank.

Here's a little quote from my water testing kit:

"Nitrite concentrations as low as 1.6mg per LITRE of water can reduce a fish's ability in breathing via gills causing them to gasp at the water surface and become very lethargic"

I hope this helps - sorry if i've missed the point lol!!! :)

Emily xxx

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