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  • Regular Member

ok i have a ten gal tank with two fish in.. they are getting a pond in a month.. and i was going to have the ten gal as a tropical... but im sooo mad about goldies!

i want to get a fancy.. i think an oranda.. i know they need 10 gals each.. but is a ten gal tank ok with one.. it just seems a bit small to me?

i was thinking more of a 20 gal with 2 is better than a ten gal with one.. or is the health of the fish the same?

i suppose what i really want to know is.. can i get an oranda for my ten gal?

if i had the money and the space i would get a biiiiig tank.. but i dont so im stuck with the 10 gal on my window sill! :( not the best place i know

does anyone here keep one fish in a ten gal?

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Guest labrat99

I prefer to keep my fish at least two to a tank. It seems to me that they do better with companions than alone. So, if it's feasable I'd suggest the 20. Good luck.

Labrat

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Guest Wingfinger

I reckon the 10gal per fish rule has a lot to answer for as well, I used to keep 5 largeish goldfish in a 32 UK gallon and never had a problem. Even managed to breed them in the same tank which was 4' in length if I remember right. :D

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  • Regular Member

I agree with your comment wingfinger, I think it is very disputable, however, after seeing the size of a 20gallon i find it ridiculous that putting even 2 goldfish in there is pushing it. I have seen goldies live very healthy lives in a dramatically smaller tank.

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  • Regular Member
:) You really have to take a look at the Big Picture. Last Year I got some wee baby Orandas off of a fellow memberThey were only twelve weeks old,so we're talking very small. They have been kept in a 30 gal. tank since they came here. In one year,they have really grown.My biggest baby is 8 inches big now,one is 5 1/2-maybe 6 inches,and one is 4 1/2 -5 inches big. Never would I have thought that the thirty gallon would be too small for them,but I'll tell you what, when I see the size of my biggest fish,and I try & picture the other two just as big-I now realize that it allready looks crowded. :( Sure,many have successfully kept Goldies in the "not so perfect" conditions,but to what effect? I have goldies that came from online.They were sick,and kept in crowded -poor water quality conditions.Although they all seem to be okay now,they are all definately stunted.They'll never reach their full potential because of that,and who knows what health problems they may have down the road because of that. It's very hard to look at 2 small goldfish,and picturing them overcrowding a twenty gal. tank,but picture them 10- 12 inches when you do. This of course is only my opinion. :)
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Guest Wingfinger
:) You really have to take a look at the Big Picture. Last Year I got some wee baby Orandas off of a fellow memberThey were only twelve weeks old,so we're talking very small.? They have been kept in a 30 gal. tank since they came here. In one year,they have really grown.My biggest baby is 8 inches big now,one is 5 1/2-maybe 6 inches,and one is 4 1/2 -5 inches big. Never would I have thought that the thirty gallon would be too small for them,but I'll tell you what, when I see the size of my biggest fish,and I try & picture the other two just as big-I now realize that it allready looks crowded. :( ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Sure,many have successfully kept Goldies in the "not so perfect" conditions,but to what effect? I have goldies that came from online.They were sick,and kept in crowded -poor water quality conditions.Although they all seem to be okay now,they are all definately stunted.They'll never reach their full potential because of that,and who knows what health problems they may have down the road because of that. It's very hard to look at 2 small goldfish,and picturing them overcrowding a twenty gal. tank,but picture them 10- 12 inches when you do. This of course is only my opinion. :)

369015[/snapback]

My largest fish is close to 9" in body, 17 years old and going strong, currently living in a 24gal aquarium.

sniffles003.jpg

Everyone does things differently and to different effects. I've managed to hit it pretty much on the button thanks very much and I'm not going to change ways which have wrked for the past 18 years or so just because I've discovered a website which has a differing opinion to mine.

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  • Regular Member

Uhm. I think the ten gallon minimun per fancy is a very good rule, and so is 15-20 gallons per common/comet. After learning so much on this site, I would never give them any less, and I want to give them even more than that. That's all I'm saying.

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  • Regular Member

I think the 10 gal is a good rule, and I think, Lucy, you could keep an oranda in a 10 gal; when the fish gets older you may want or need to move him. The 10 gal rule is also for waste, not just size; I used to think a 20 gal with 3 would be alright, but after having a cycling catastrophy, I realized how much easier it was with just 2. Anyway, that is just my experiance.

Good luck with your pond and plans for an oranda Lucy. Make sure to get pics of the pond construction!

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  • Regular Member

I certianly agree with the 10 gallon 15/20 gallon rules.

We all have our opinions, we respect them on this board. Please, for those that do not think those gallon rules are worthwhile do NOT knock them however much you dissagree. They have proved to work thus far.

Bigger is always better but we do not force you to get larger tanks and you do not force us to get smaller ones, but you must see that we all have our opinions and we can voice them. I have seen too many good forums go to pieces because of stead fast differences in opinion.

I'm not saying we can't have opinion, we can each have our opinions, but please, we ALL must not argue and bicker about them. I like this board too much to end up on "sides".

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  • Regular Member

I agree with the 10 gallon MINIMUM Rule... I had a 12 year old common once.. he was just over 16 inches... 16! thats over a foot! but he lived with just one other fantail (about 10 inches) in a 55 gallon.

And my baby moore I bought about 2 months ago went from 1/2 inch long body to almost 3 inch long body! he's shootin! And he's alone in a 10. Since goldfish are twice as dirty and much larger then tropicals, i think bigger is better with tanks :D

I also read somewhere, something VERY interesting... its about Oscars, but since their almost as dirty as goldies, i think it qualifies to-

Once 15 inch oscar may take up the same aquarium space as 15 one inch oscars, but because of the girth and bioload a larger, wider fish takes up, th 15 inch oscar will make up to 150 TIME more waste then the tank with 15 one inch oscars.

i think thats how it went. definently puts things into more of a perspective!

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I kind of agree with it but then I kind of don't. When someone gets a ten gallon and put one fish in it - it does look like there is enough room for two. I can understand that persperctive clearly (having two fantails in a ten gallon myself). Then I try to put myself in that perspective. Okay I'm a litle fish - looking at a box swimming in rectangles all day. If I were that fishie I wouldn't want to be alone (for one) and would be alot happier in a bigger tank(say one fish per 15-20 gal). I would think that a perfect size tank for two fancies would be a 30 gal. It would be big enough to explore and check things out. Now being with that statement being kind of hypocriticle with me and my 2 to 10 ratio. I would love to do so but hubby would flip and another 30gal. tank and I can't see having one lonely fish. :krazy: who REALLY knows

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Guest Wingfinger

I must admit to being made to feel unwelcome on other boards when it arose that I did things differently to others. I had hoped this board might be different but ho hum...

admin, please feel free to delete my account as I won't be contributing any further.

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Wow?! Thats a little drastic, no? I don't think anyone here is trying to make anyone else feel unwelcome. As far as I've noticed that everyone is welcome here and is not to be ridiculed or judged - Different opinions will cause some altercations but I don't think leaving the forum completly is neccesssary. Friendly people, chatting, as well as debating...It's all part of the fun! :twocents

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Guest Wingfinger
Wow?! Thats a little drastic, no? I don't think anyone here is trying to make anyone else feel unwelcome.

No but ramming rules down peoples throats is quite enough to put me off, also the advice I recieved when posting in the emergency forum was also enough to make me realise there's probably not too much new to learn here for a casual browser such as myself. I've done OK for 18 years of fish keeping without use of a forum so I doubt whether ceasing to post here is going to make a difference.

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  • Regular Member

First off, Wingfinger, I do not appreciate your attitude towards Devs. She is a moderator here for a reason. She understands the need for general rules of thumb for beginners and newbies. Otherwise, everyone would learn the hard way. The idea behind her posting her opinion is simple; set guidelines to for beginners to follow so as to avoid disaster.

Devs did not, in any way, make any jabs at you or your fishkeeping practices or knowledge. I reapeat that statement for emphasis: Devs did not attack your fishkeeping pracitices or knowledge. So, why the sudden burst of attitude. I really don't understand. :blink: Surely you need to reread her post and look for where she told you you were wrong about anything........

As for your fishkeeping practices being as good as they should be, that is up for debate. But, You won't find me, or anyone else here, telling you that you are wrong for keeping fish alive for as long as you say you have. BUT, and I stress this, you can hardly take care of yourself when your 2 or 3 years old, let alone a tank full of fish. It sounds to me as though you had help for close to a decade of those 17 years. or is it 18 years? Either way, thats a pretty brave statement for someone who is only 20 and claims to have been keeping fish for 18 years.

So, if you feel that you are smarter than a a whole forum of people who, collectively, have been keeping goldfish "happy" and "healthy" for several hundred years. Then we have nothing to offer you but our condolences for being so "smart".

I would have PMed you about this in private but you are still a "newbie" here. Your attitude is specifically why we do not allow newbies to PM and have other privelages. See, its working....

Good day to you

Paul

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Guest squeeker
I also read somewhere, something VERY interesting... its about Oscars, but since their almost as dirty as goldies, i think it qualifies to-

Once 15 inch oscar may take up the same aquarium space as 15 one inch oscars, but because of the girth and bioload a larger, wider fish takes up, th 15 inch oscar will make up to 150 TIME more waste then the tank with 15 one inch oscars.

i think thats how it went. definently puts things into more of a perspective!

Interesting thing about oscars, too: the minimum recommended tank size for a single oscar is 55 gallons.

No but ramming rules down peoples throats is quite enough to put me off, also the advice I recieved when posting in the emergency forum was also enough to make me realise there's probably not too much new to learn here for a casual browser such as myself. I've done OK for 18 years of fish keeping without use of a forum so I doubt whether ceasing to post here is going to make a difference.

Wingfinger,

I certainly see wat you are trying to get across. 10-gallon rule is more of a guideline. It's a good place to start. If one has experience, and gets to know what a fish needs, rules can be bent, sometimes broken. You have to understand, though, that when a new user posts, we don't know that person's background. They could be a 12 year old kid (or even a 40 year old adult!) who has crammed too many fish in a tank, etc, without cycling, OR they could be a goldfish breeder from China, who knows. So, one has to assume that the new person might not know what's up, and hence the 10-gallon rule comes out. It's not a bad thing. You obviously MUST know what you're doing if you have such a big comet.

I agree with the 10-gallon rule, ESPECIALLY for people just entering the goldfish hobby. I work in a pet store, and promote the rule every time I sell a goldfish. I've seen the effects that stunting can have.

HOWEVER, I feel that, after keeping goldfish for the past years, I would be capable of lightly overstocking a tank (by the Rule's standards) and be able to keep healthy, happy, un-stunted fish. I think a better "rule" for experienced goldfish keepers is the "3 gallons per inch of goldfish" rule. This allows one to keep small goldfish together, and allowing much larger goldfish more space. However, as the fish grows, the space requirements change. This is fine, if you have the tanks/money to do it.

In summary, you either need to provide your fish with the appropriate space, or perform sufficient water changes to keep nitrates from polluting the water. It doesn't matter how you accomplish this, as long as you do!

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Guest Wingfinger

First off, maybe I should say exactly what I think of the 10 gallon rule. I think it was possibly made up by someone who loves their goldfish enough to try and advise everyone else to follow a guideline which will certainly see the fish OK. The 10 gallon part (I believe) is probably above exactly what?s required but if someone likes a certain animal so much then they would probably advise people to provide more than ideal conditions. However from posts here and on the main site I see it put across as a rule rather than a guideline and that?s what I?m not keen on. I own a website on keeping giant millipedes as well and I usually advise people that a 2?-2.5? glass aquarium is ideal when really the recognized rule of thumb is the length of the tank should be 2 x the length of the millipede (one rarely finds millipedes over 1?).

?First off, Wingfinger, I do not appreciate your attitude towards Devs. She is a moderator here for a reason. She understands the need for general rules of thumb for beginners and newbies. Otherwise, everyone would learn the hard way. The idea behind her posting her opinion is simple; set guidelines to for beginners to follow so as to avoid disaster. ?

Good God what on earth have I done to deserve this? If my ?attitude? (or rather the bluntness that comes with me) is bothering people then I?m really sorry to say this but that?s the way I am.

?Devs did not, in any way, make any jabs at you or your fishkeeping practices or knowledge. I reapeat that statement for emphasis: Devs did not attack your fishkeeping pracitices or knowledge. So, why the sudden burst of attitude. I really don't understand. :blink: Surely you need to reread her post and look for where she told you you were wrong about anything........?

I?m sorry but I found Devs post very patronizing, maybe that was the wrong impression to get but I felt he/she was replying in response to myself and lillypetal. Just goes to show that you can?t always be sure of the tone of a post when it?s made as you clearly weren?t about mine.

?As for your fishkeeping practices being as good as they should be, that is up for debate.?

Possibly? but then only after I have given very precise details of my practices, which as far as I can remember I haven?t.

?I would have PMed you about this in private but you are still a "newbie" here. Your attitude is specifically why we do not allow newbies to PM and have other privelages. See, its working....?

What?s good for the goose eh, the phrase ?it?s my ball and I?m no playing? spring to mind, I had no idea this was the case but if it is then it does nothing bar make my opinion of the running of this forum slide further. And this really is not me being *editied for cursing*, I really can?t understand the logic of this and it makes the whole forum seem kind of cliquey. I run a similar forum for a football team and both myself and the other admin get virtual pelters if we?re seen to treat one user different from another based on number/quality of posts etc.

I?m sure if I had replied with the same tone you?re now addressing me with to Devs I?d have been banned on the spot and righty so.

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  • Regular Member
I run a similar forum for a football team and both myself and the other admin get virtual pelters if we?re seen to treat one user different from another based on number/quality of posts etc. 

I?m sure if I had replied with the same tone you?re now addressing me with to Devs I?d have been banned on the spot and righty so.

369247[/snapback]

No, there is no favouring, I have been here one year and so far I've been treated the exact same as when I first posted. As Paul said there are moderators for a reason, you running a forum know this. Devs did as a mod should, so quite frankly why you are accusing her of doing her job is beyond me. Everyone is given a fair and equal chance on this fourm, it is the user that decides how the next posters responce will be. If you say something you know people will dissagree with then of course you'll get all kinds of positive/negative responses, mods and more forum experienced users will usualy kindly explain the reasons behind whatever the topic is, in this case the 10 gallon rule. New and most often younger users not yet used to forum etiquite will reply simply what they are thinking because they are not used to an adult enviroment. That is on every forum, we are here to help them learn as well as promote a safe kid/family friendly enviroment. If you feel unwelcome in any way then we are not holding you back from leaving, but you do not have to be so rude to Paul, Devs or any member on this board. So, if you do not like this fourm and want to leave, then please, go right ahead.

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  • Regular Member

Let me put it to you this way, if you want to go on endorsing that the ten gallons per fancy goldfish "rule of thumb" being a crock. That is just fine. That is your given right. BUT, do not come HERE and do it. We here at Kokos have to keep a steady keel on what we advise to our mambers and beginners. If we don't, confusion happens. Plain and simple.

If you STILL cannot understand why we suggest the ten gallon rule of thumb, and stay even keeled on it, then I am sorry. But I think it is rather easy to understand.

If you wish to leave, that is fine. If you wish to stay, that is fine too. But, you really need to curb your attitude to our members here. We are all about being peacable and getting along.

Remember, nobody is saying that you have to agree with any of us about anything. But, you cannot come in and stir things up like this and not expect some negative attention.

Paul

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