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Lens Ick? O_o


Guest fishy_go_swim

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Guest fishy_go_swim

My globe-eyed Oranda has somthing that looks like advanced ick creeping around the edges of his eyes. It's only appeared over the last three days, and my golden globe-eye died this morning from the same thing. They were eating alright, and pooping fine, but they spent a great deal of time on the bottom. I've done everything I can to the water and tank, and I really need to cure him. He's in isolation at the moment with a weak salt treatment, other than that, I don't know what to do could someone help?

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  • Regular Member

Could you please describe his eyes a bit more. Are they popping out or is there a visible puffy ring around the eye?

Also, could you answer as many of the questions as you can at the top of the page. This will help us figure out what is going on and :welcome

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Guest fishy_go_swim

He doesn't have pop-eye. I know that.

It looks like he's got velvet over his lenses, and there's a small protrusion that's filled with blood. He's got blood in his dorsal and tail, he's not yawning exsessively, but he's not very active either. He's got velvet down his back and a little bit on the sides of his abdomen. His abdomen is rather swollen as well.

I've raised fish since I was six, and I've never had something like this happen :( Help!

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Guest fishy_go_swim
He doesn't have pop-eye. I know that.

It looks like he's got velvet over his lenses, and there's a small protrusion that's filled with blood. He's got  blood in his dorsal and tail, he's not yawning exsessively,  but he's not very active either. He's got velvet down his back and a little bit on  the sides of his abdomen.  His abdomen is rather swollen as well.

  I've raised fish since I was six, and I've never had something like this happen :(   Help!

363379[/snapback]

CamPic32.jpg This is him, and a poor picture, but that protrusion is black on one side, and bloody on the other.

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Guest fishy_go_swim

-Ammonia Level?0

-Nitrite Level?0

-Nitrate level?0

-Ph Level?7.4

-Ph Level out of the Tap?8.4

-Tank size(How many Gals)42gal.

-and How long has it been running? Five months

-What kind of Filtration? Whisper 10-20 filter

-How often do you change the water and how much? 15% weekly, 30% monthly

-What kind of Water additives or conditioners? Tap water is UV filtered, Basic well water( Though has a high sulphur content, naturally)

-Any Medications add to the tank? Salt, and Eythromycin based antibiotics

-How many fish in the tank and their size? one Angel fish (about the size of a saucer plate) Two black moors, one 9 inches, and one 6.5 inches, one oranda, same size as first moor, two 5 inch weather loaches and two spotted plecos, on 6 inches and one 5.5 ( a it's bit too over crowded now)

Add any new fish to the tank? None since I started it.

-What do you feed your fish? Romaine lettuce, krill, and wardley fish flakes, occassionally ham (like at Christmas and Easter)

- Any unusual findings on the fish? Such as "grains of salt", bloody streaks, frayed fins, fungus? Yes. The moors began showing signs of ick yesterday and have since been treated for it, the oranda has developed frayed fins, a velvety white films on its eyes, sides, back, and fins, but not its underside.

-Any unusual behavior? Like staying

at the bottom, not eating, ect..? stays at the bottom unless temperature rises, or disturbed

-If you can what is the chloramines Level

from the Tap? 0

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Hi. :)

Well, from the sound of it, your fish has a fungus infection. It also seems that you do not have test kits. Last, but certainly not least, your filtration sounds as though it is waaaaaay too small for such a large tank. Even if you were running two of the whisper 10-20's, it would still only be half of what you really need.

Here's what you need to do if you stand any chance of helping him. You'll need to get more and better filtration added to the tank ASAP. You will also need to get test kits for each of the params listed in the white box above. You will have to test every day, morning and night, and perform waterchanges as per the instructions on this page: tank cycling

I realize that this sounds like a bit much to take in all at once. But, here are a couple of rules of thumb that must be adhered to so that the water quality of the tank is not adversely affected:

Generally, fancy goldfish need about ten gallons of water per fish. They can and do grow much larger than most people think. This translates into a very heavy bio-laod (ammonia).

For each and every ten gallons of water, there needs to be at least 100 gallons per hour in filtration. This cannot be challenged. It is proven time and time again to be the magic number to never go below.

You should never operate ANY fishtank without test kits. Without them, you have no possible idea of what the water quality is like. It is a closed ecosystem that lacks natures natural filtration so close monitoring of it (weekly, once filtration and cycling is up to par) is direly needed.

So, with the info I have given you thus far, you should see that you are grossly overstocked and waaaaaaaaaay underfiltered. This needs to change ASAP before you can expect any kind of improvement in your sick one. In truth, I am surpised that there aren't more sick fish. But, it sounds like they have grown to their sizes they are now, in that particular tank. So, this might explain why you are only just now seeing problems surface. Be prepared for more.

Things you will need:

Filtration to equal, at the very least, 400 gallons per hour.

Reduce the stocking density of your tank. Another 40 gallon should suffice. Of course, this also needs to have filtration that equals the suggestions for the current 40.

Test daily and perform waterchanges until the water quality improves to 0ppm for ammonia, 0ppm for nitrItes and the nitrAtes are below 40-50ppm.

Use salt as per the instructions on the cycling page and this should help with respiration.

Other than that, I suggest that you discontinue ALL medicating until you have the water quality under control. Otherwise, nothing will improve. Basically, you have to fix the root of the problem before the problem decists.

I'm sure you have MANY questions. Feel free to ask away. I'll be happy to answer any and all to the best of my ability.....

Good luck. :)

Paul

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Guest fishy_go_swim

I know that I'm grossly overstocked and underfiltered, and I need to find more room for my fish. Do you have any suggestions for a larger filter? I'm used to having three tanks (8, 12 and 20 gal) so having on this large has been a huge undertaking and I'm still learning things that seem obvious to most people. :unsure:

The oranda is looking up now, but there's more blood in his tail.

Thanks so much for your consideration and your help so far! :D

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Oh, gosh, questions..

what sort of kits (brands) should I get to test Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates?

Testing doesn't sound like too much to take on at once, I just live in the middle of nowhere, so getting access to pet stores to get the stuff is rather trying.

I find it odd that what happened to the oranda occured over three days. Fungus should be able to spread that fast in a 20 degree tank, should it? The oranda is isolated in the 12 gallon tank with corner filter (for a ten gal tank) and a 5-15 whisper filter running, and he's alone, save for a live plant, now. (I moved him from the jar)

What fish do you think I should remove? The angel and the moors have been tank mates for almost four years, along with the oranda, the plecos I got when I started the tank as a late Christmas present, and the loaches have been tank mates for the last two years. Should I just find a larger tank, Or should I get rid of them and give them to someone else? (which I'd really rather not do)

Again, what kind of filtration should I use on the tank? I have a 23" bubble bar, does that help with aeration? or at least circulation?

I'm not going to try to make excuses, but I'm still not sure what I'm doing with a tank this large :blink: Help really is appreciated, because I hate doing trial and error with fish! I get too attached to them!~

Thanks again!

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Gosh, sorry I didn't see this. I hadn't seen the thread in a few days and hadn't seen that you'd answered. :unsure:

I wouldn't remove anything for now. Just perform large daily waterchanges. I mean LARGE. 75% wouldn't be unreasonable considering the amount of fish and lack of filtration. But, you will need test kits ASAP. Ammonia, nitrItes, nitrAtes and pH are the ones you need. Also, it is a good idea to get some Prime or amquel plus. Use this stuff as per the instructions and test results each day. I can elaborate on that a bit more if you like.

Ok, you have to separate the tropicals from the coldwater/tolerant fish. This is strictly to allow you to use salt on the goldfish. Salt should be used with them as I am sure your nitrIte levels are/were too high.

Feed VERY sparingly until you can improve conditions. If you can switch to an all veggie food for the time being. Cichlid food is a good example. This will keep too much ammonia/nitrItes from possibly building up even higher.

Anyway, For a 40 gallon tank, I would order a penguin biowheel 350 and a 150. If you plan on keeping your tank overstocked by a little (wich is actually ok if you test very regularly and plan on doing a few extra waterchanges), then you need more than the "100gph for every 10 gallons" rule of thumb. Thats why the filters I listed above total 500gph instead of the normally prescribed 400gph for a 40 gallon tank. Anyway, with big goldfish, you can almost never have too much filtration.

So, large daily waterchanges until you can get the test kits, Prime or amquel plus and aquarium salt. Post back soon. :)

Paul

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Guest fishy_go_swim

I had assumed a large daily water change would be in order, so I've been chnging it 50% for the last two days. I made a mistake on saying my filter is a 10-20. It's a whisper Secondnature power filter 2, so I'm assuming it's atleast 30-40, but the filter cartidges fo 10-20, 30-40. and 50-60 are the same size.

I don't have anywhere else to put my Angel, and he's larger than the other fish, should I worry about using salt still, though?

The oranda is healing. Its lenses are firm again, and the velvety slime is receeding. Its fins look like it's been in a dog fight, but the blood is starting to disappear and the jagged egdes are healing back together.

What properties does the bubble bar give? (other than the bubble wall effect?)

.. Um.. What is Prime and Amquel plus? Aquarium salt I have. If I need to set up another tank (which I now have acess to) can I cycle it starting with my Danios?

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Ok, well, we still need to figure out the exact filter that your using. Do you know if it is the triad filter or the economy filter?

Here is the tetra/whisper second nature power filter 20: PF20

To be honest with you, I cannot find anything saying that whisper filters even has a model called "whisper Secondnature power filter 2". It sounds as though you mean its a model 20. If the filter in the pic above is what you have, then your total gph for that particular filter is only 105gph. This is seriously undergunned for your tank. Even f this s a power filter 30 the total is only 145gph. Needless to say, you need more filtration. Here is a link to an online shop that has the BEST prices anywhere for filters: Big Als Online.com

Where and what you do with your fish is entirely up to you. But, you DO need to do some thinning out. Your angel might be able to handle the salinities you need to adhere to but you will have to watch closely and make that judgement for yourself. Freshwater angels DO like a little salt in the water but a 0.3% solution might be a little too high. Just observe closely when raising the salinity.

Prime and amquel plus are dechlorinators that also detoxify ammonia, nitrItes and nitrAtes as well as bind up heavy metals. Truly the most complete water treatments known to fishkeeping. As long as I keep fish, I will have Prime. I won't compromise either. It is highly advisable that you purchase some and begin using it with your daily waterchanges. Dose according to the instructions and the test results. Otherwise, double dose it at each and every waterchange.

The bubble wall is just a good way to curculate the water around the aquarium. This helps increase the oxygen levels and nothing more. But, it IS beneficial to have.

Thats good news that your sick one is healing up. The waterchanges are doing the trick. Keep it up and keep us posted! :D

Paul

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Guest fishy_go_swim

The Filter I have is from the 80's and it has a little '2' on the cover right over the intake. You're right, it is for twenty gallons. *blonde moment*

I've got the money to go and get a good sized canister filter.. It's just getting to nnnnnn to buy it. :blink: What chain Retail stores can I get Prime and Amquel Plus from? I'm a little bit lost on that.

The Oranda is doing much better. It's more active, and the velvet is peeling off in strips (which is really gross, but the scales underneath are healthy looking) Also, the infection in its eyes have decreased, and the swelling has gone down. Thanks so much for your help! I lost one from this, because I didn't know what was happening, and other sites didn't help in the least. You guys are great! :D

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If you can get a canister filter that pushes about 300gph, that might be all you need. However, it is usually very advisable to get two smaller filters instead of one large one. This way, your beneficial bacteria colonies arent sitting in just one place. Two HOB filters will work awesome and will make your job a lot easier. Canisters are great, don't get me wrong, but I think it would actually be best if you got the HOB filters instead. Besides, the price of one canister filter, thats big enough for your tank, is probably more than the two filters I linked you to earlier. I have ordered from bigals many times and have always been pleased.... ;)

Prime should be readily bought at most corporate fish/pet stores. I'm not too sure about nnnnnn though.

Im glad all seems to be going well for your sick one. The stuff you see coming off of it is actually a buildup of excess slime. In toxic conditions, goldfish will secrete excess slime to guard from chemical burns and the like. Speaking of chemical burns, you could possibly begin to see some black patches show up. This is ammonia burns and is actually a sign of the healing process beginning. Just a heads up in case you see this. ;)

Remember that if you plan on keeping ANY fish in overstocked conditions (even by a little), you need excesive filtration. For a 40 gallon tank, I would go no less than 500gph. I think your fish will be fine for a tad bit longer in their current tank (especially once you up the filtration. BUT, keep it in mind that you need to fix this problem so that you aren't stressing out about testing and waterchanges for too long.

Good luck and keep us posted! :D

Paul

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Guest fishy_go_swim

It hasn't got ammonia burns (the same sort of thing happens with sheep) But the older it gets it turns more gold. orginally, I bought it as a "black moor" I had four 'black moors', but as it turned out, only two of them actually were. The one that died had gradually turned completely gold.(long before it got sick) Is that common?

The canister I was looking at has settings, and for the life of me, I can't remember what company makes it. It flows at 600gph, I'm looking to get it, and now I have another 20 gal waterfall-type filter. Would the two be better, two and the canister, or one and the canister? Like you said, there can never be too much circulation with big goldfish.

<_< The Black moors have taken advantage to the lack of two fish in the tank, and have grown more. :duck

:thanks

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Yep, its pretty common to see moors turn gold like that. Genetics is the main culprit but some speculate that stressful conditions can do this as well.

Can you tell me the name and model canister that your thinking of?

How about the other 20 gal filter, what is its name and model?

Paul

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Guest fishy_go_swim

The other 20 gal filter is another whisper filter, just a new-er model. Next time I'm down Island, I'll have to find out that canister's brand.

I think the gold scales (though not ideal) Look really neat. ^_^ The Oranda is looking up. It's healing (slowly) but has become more active everyday, and has stopped rubbing his sides. Infortunately, it can't see anymore, so it fumbles around the tank.

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Get the new whisper filter going as soon as you can. Keep them both running until you can get your newly purchased filter going and cycled completely. Then, you can remove one of the whispers and use it in another tank. Or, if the canister is as good as you described, you can remove both whispers and use them on another tank. In doing this, all you need is a few minor items and you have the makings of another complete tank to house the fish you are separating from one another.

I know what you mean about being blind. I have a moor that has black completely covering his corneas and he cannot see anything eiother. So, he just swims to the usual feeding areas to forage for food. Heh, he seems to like to re-arrange everything in his tank too. If its in his way, he just muscles through. Knocking stuff around in the process....... :rolleyes:

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Guest fishy_go_swim

Thanks so much for your help! My fish are recovering quite rapidly right now. I still haven't gotten a hold of another filter, so I've been doing a 30% water change twice a day. (I love a summer of nothing to do :D ) The sick one is recovered and is back in the tank with the others. I took the ornaments out and boiled them in salt water to clean and fungus off then , and rinsed the gravel with a heavy salt bath as well, so I think they'll be okay. I found one ornaments was releasing heavy metals into the water, so it have been disposed of.

Thank you, again!

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Thats great! :D I love a happy ending!

Just and FYI: the fungus looking stuff you might see form from time to time, on ornaments, gravel, glass, anything, is nothing harmless at all. It is actually algaes, beneficial bacterias and other beneficial organisms colonizing stuff. They can and will do so on ANYthing in the tank. So, in short, its ok to keep your ornaments and glass clean, but try not to ever clean everything in the tank all at once. This could cause a blip in your nitrification cycle and the ammonia and nitrItes could rise...

Just remember, if you keep your water happy. The water will keep your fish happy! :lol:

PAul

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Guest fishy_go_swim

Just a precaution, I guess. My Cousin (who is a fisheries officer) suggested I try that, and it has seemed to help a bit.

:D

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