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Not Again...


Kissy

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I'm not at home right now so I can't do water tests, but I will deliver all those details when I have a chance before tonight.

I brought home a baby lionhead yesterday from vvvv. He is the brother of the lionhead I brought home a month ago, Macy. Macy had hole-in-head disease and an internal parasite or bacterial infection, and only lasted a week and a half. I kept seeing this poor little fish every time I went to the store, and I finally gave in yesterday. I have a new used tank that I disinfected the crap out of and everything is sparkly and new. I tried to do a fishless cycle with fish flakes since my parents refused to take me to the store to look for ammonia, and that only lasted three days before I brought this little guy home. I had kept the fish flakes in the toes of pantyhose trapped behind each cartridge in the filter. The ammonia level was at .3 the day before I brought the new fish home, I took those out and did a 50% water change, added water conditioner, changed the pH from 8.2 to 7.5 in order to match the store water, and acclimated the fish.

I have 8 onces of metro-med and medi-gold, aquari-sol, melafix, and several other medications in stock. Right now I am feeding metro-med and he is eating well. The fish has tiny pin-hole looking holes in his little wen and they are a tiny bit darker than the natural orange, they might be red. There are no trails of mucous coming from them like Macy had. He is Soooooooo energetic, and swims all over the place in his 29 gallon (all to himself). He does not act sick. Today, I also noticed there are two very ver tiny red dots on his side very close to his tail fin. He keeps moving so much, its hard to see, but they are there.

I'm going out of town tomorrow and won't be back til tuesday night (I think), but my mom agreed (very hesitantly..she hates my fish) to feed him.

What are those red dots? Is there anything else I can do except keep the water nice and clean and feed him metro-med?

Please cross your fingers for this little guy. He doesn't act sick and is eating so hopefully everything will get better, but I have 0 luck with goldfish. 0 as in I have had three goldfish that didn't last more than two weeks, and one that lasted a couple months. Please help this little guy, he needs you :(

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Guest Chishower

Awww you poor thing.

I think clean water is the best thing you can do for him right now, and hope he makes it through. He sounds like quite a trooper.

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  He sounds like quite a trooper.

359027[/snapback]

That's what everyone else said about my other fish. :(

Blah..I don't want to go camping, I need to stay home and take care of all my fishies. I'm really worried about him ._.

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:( Well Kissy,you have more guts than I do.I don't know if I would have had the courage to go back and buy another fish from the same tank that you got your first little guy,especially with the other one having Hole in the Head/Internal Parasites/Bacterial Infection-especially when you're going out of town,and leaving him in an Uncycled tank.Believe me,I'm not trying to sound harsh,I am mainly cconcerned for your fish. :) The red dots could possibly be the beginnings of Costia.Without your Parameter's etc.,and based on the info that you're telling me-it's a possiblity,and a guess right now. You really need to post those water levels as soon as you can.Cycling a tank in itself is a huge stress factor on a fish that kills many a new goldfish because of water params not being spot on. During cycling,one fish can make the Ammonia /Nitrite levels jump quickly.I'm a little concerned about your Mom feeding it also-If she hates doing that,How's she going to feel about testing Water Params,and doing Water changes until you get back on Tuesday? You know of course that you are asking for trouble if you think that the tank will be okay until you get back,right?Someone should really be there keeping track of all that-looking for symptoms,etc...to see if he needs treated for something. As for changing your Ph level to accomodate the fish,Well,that is something that you really shouldn't play with.Anytime you bring a fish home,and there's a Ph difference-the trick is to slowly add your tank water to the fishes water over a period of time to acclimate it.If your normal Ph is always going to read 8.2,then that's what you should have gone with. You can create alot of problems when you start trying to alter your PH.
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Ammonia= .3

nitrite=0

nitrate=0

pH=8.1

Water condtioner=aqua tetra

Food=metro-med

tank size=29 gallons

filtration=hang over the back regent filter

I brought him home yesterday, uncycled tank.

So I think he's got hole-in-head and costia....so should I keep feeding him metro-med and start salting the tank? One teaspoon per gallon the first day, 2 per gallon the second day, and 3 per gallon the third, right? Can I mix aquarium salt and kosher salt (no additives) together?

My pH rose back up really fast...I'm sure that's going to hurt the situation even more.

I'm working on asking my dad if I can stay home instead of going camping. I'm not sure how that will go....

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Hi Kissy - red spots you say? Well, red spots may be one of the earliest signs of a bacterial infection or in some cases - are very commonly caused by infectious parasites which attack the skin, opening it to infection. Flukes are just one excellent example.

The only problem here is that it doesn't matter what meds you have as you should never really administer anything unless your water parameters are perfect first. Fish need to excellent water to build their imminity to fight most ailments and that's when - if necessary - it's ok to give them the correct meds....

I don't suppose there's any chance of a pic?

And yes, you could start salting to 0.1% and slowly raise it to 0.3% over 24 hours... if it is costia - then the salt should hopefully clear it.

As for hole in the head - this is mainly something that attacks larger fish and there's still debate on whether or not it's precipitated by parasites....

Please post back soon and hopefully it's something cureable with perfect water and salt :)

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When you advise against using meds with not perfect water, does this mean I should stop feeding metro-med? Yah quick response, I've been sitting here waiting for replies. I have limited internet time tho, and my brother wants the computer in a few minutes. I think I'll start salting then.

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Just heard about Costia in Goldfish Disscusion; can't really help, but found a site that talks more about Costia, and includes other symptomes that might help in determining whether it is Costia or not.

http://www.goldfishvet.com/disease/costia.htm

Do you have a microscope? It suggested on the site to take a scraping and look at it under a microscope with 400x magnification.

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I would think Metro-Med would be fine, since it's a med food, just not direct medicine, but that's just what I think, and can't confirm it, except that most meds crash your cycling but medicated food doesn't, so I think it would be okay. Good luck Kissy.

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I'd keep feeding but i'd also be doing a few more waterchanges - just to help dilute any ammonia build-up. Do you have any Prime? This is great at rendering any ammonia non-toxic - it works a treat.

Hopefully the metromeds and salt will show some improvement :)

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Thanks for being supportive...I know this is my fault.

I syphoned out three gallons and have three clean gallons with 29 teaspoons of salt dissolving in it right now to add to the tank. I thought it might be best to dissolve it outside the aquarium instead of inside. Can undissolved salt burn fish? I'm not sure, I thought I heard it some pleace so I didn't want to take any more risks.

I talked to my mom about staying home with her. She said it was okay with her, but I have to ask my sister and dad, because if I don't go my sister won't want to go, and I know my dad won't want a camping trip with just my brother. Next weekend is 6 flags for 3 or four days...egh this is going to be awful.

Please stay tuned because I'm sure I'll have tons more questions.

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if its costia the high temps its at will excellerate the breeding very quickly :(

Would it be worth it to put frozen waterbottles in the water?

As for the prime, no I don't have any. Is it a water conditioner?

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And yes, you could start salting to 0.1% and slowly raise it to 0.3% over 24 hours... if it is costia - then the salt should hopefully clear it.

359104[/snapback]

Does this mean go from .1 to .3 all in 24 hours, or over a period of three days?

Sorry I keep replying...I am usually like this when my fish are sick..

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I think you can do it in 24 hours by putting it in every 12 hours. For instance, if you put in 1 tsp of salt per gallon at 8pm, then another 1 tsp at 8am, then another 1 tsp at 8pm, that would be 24 hours.

You only need an additional teaspoon per gallon each time, though. Unless you're adding new water, in which case you'll need to replace the salt that was already in there before you add new salt for the next level. Kinda complicated...

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Exactly as kortniee says :)

When you do waterchanges - try and measure out how many gallons you remove so you can replace the same amount of salt removed.

Just on the salt - it's always best to dissolve it first otherwise it'll just sit on the bottom of the tank - so not much benefit there :)

Now there's one extra thing i'd suggest doing also and that's a couple of salt dips... starting at 0.6%. The way to do this is by adding 1.5 teaspoons of salt to a 1/4 gallon container. Keep him in there for 10 minutes. Then i'd repeat again in 6 hrs...

Then keep a careful eye on him for the next day and see if there's any improvement. Hopefully the salt will resolve whatever is happening but if it is Costia - and a salt resistent strain at that - then we'll need to look at a more intensive treatment....

See how you go with the salt and a careful eye - and see what happens.

Prime is IMHO the best water conditioner on the market. It's a concentrated conditioner and not only does it remove chlorine, chloramine and ammonia - but it also converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by your filter.

Hope this helps some :)

PS - no i wouldn't reduce the temp - we don't know what we're dealing with yet but a higher temp should be ok

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yah, I wish I had a salinity detector!

That sounds good. I added the salt at 7 thirty ish. I will make sure I do my math when I do water changes and add salt at the same time :) Thanks Kortniee

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