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Orazio Needs Your Help!


Guest snk

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Hello,

We are hoping someone can help us determine what is wrong with our goldfish Orazio. She is approximately two years old and has been having problems with her fins off and on over the past nine months or so. Ordinarily she lives in a 75-gallon tank with four tankmates (three other goldfish and a small plecostomus.) The tank is

biologically stable, and the five animals have lived together since November 2003. No new animals have been introduced. The water quality is excellent. We were puzzled, then, when Orazio began showing symptoms of what we thought might be fin rot, ragged dorsal fin and tail. We put her in a hospital tank and treated her with MelaFix, following the label directions exactly. This seemed to cure her, but a few weeks later her symptoms recurred. We tried Pimafix, with similar good results, but again she relapsed a few months later. A month ago she developed red streaks in her tail and became lethargic, resting on the bottom of the tank most of the time. We suspected septicemia and administered Maracyn-Two and anti-bacterial fish food (which she ate readily.) Again she improved, then relapsed. She now retains the red streaks in her fins, but she is active and eats well.

Is it possible that her problem could be parasitic? (We assume that if this were the case all our fish would be infected, but none of the others have any health problems at all.) Could the problem be antibiotic resistance? We follow label directions exactly, but she has been hospitalized and treated four times over the last nine months. We are out of ideas! We would be grateful for any advice or suggestions anyone could provide. Please see her photo at http://www.3windmills.com/orazio/.

Details about the 75 gallon tank from which we moved Orazio (but she hasnt been in it for a month):

Ammonia level is perfect

25% water change every week to week and a half

Nitrate level is about 40

Nitrite level is 0

Ph Level in tank is about 6.7, 6.8

Ph level from tap is about 6.8

Tank is 75 gallons, running for 10 months

Emperor bio wheel 400 filter

5 fish (counting Orazio): 4 goldies total of 17-18 inches in length, 1 pleco 5 inches long

Food: Bio-Blend Goldfish food, peas - alternating every other day

Water Conditioner: Prime

Only fish exhibiting problems was Orazio

Can't determine chloramines from the tap

Conditions in hospital tank:

Ammonia level is perfect

25% water change every week to week and a half

Nitrate level is about 40

Nitrite level is 0

Ph Level in tank is about 6.7, 6.8

Ph level from tap is about 6.8

Tank is 29 gallons, running for 1.5 months

Aquaclear 200

1 fish (counting Orazio): little Orazio is 4 inches long

Food: Bio-Blend Goldfish food, peas - alternating every other day - recently has had anti-bacterial food

Water Conditioner: Prime, treated her with Maracyn Two, Pima Fix, Mela Fix

Only fish exhibiting problems is Orazio

Can't determine chloramines from the tap

Thank you,

SnK

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  • Regular Member

boy. I don't know if I can help much at all... but I can ask a couple of questions to help others out on the board here for when they come and read it. I'm only asking about your main tank though, so keep that in mind.

What types of goldfish do you have that are normally kept in your main tanks? are they the fancy kind? comets? or shubunkins. I ask because the commons end up needing 20 gallons each and eventually the water could be off a bit--like phosphates of something. I read in my fish magazine that larger tanks are often over polluted--even if the right amounts of fish are kept-- because it's harder and more of a daunting task to keep them siphoned well. Also, depending on just how big these fish are or will get, you might need to start changing fifty percent of the water once a week to maintain a good home.

That's another good question, how big are the fish now, including the pleco?

Very important as well: what kind of pleco is it? I know that there is a certain type of pleco that should never be kept with the goldfish--especially if the goldfish are big and slow swimmers, because the pleco can actually catch them and suck onto their sides or their fins and stuff. But for the love of me I can't remember what species of pleco that goldfish owners are supposed to avoid. someone else in here will be able to answer that. But perhaps if he is nocturnal like my mothers, he is grabbing on to her in the middle of the night?

I was also surfing the net a few months ago for hours on end to find answers about nitrAtes. Things that I have found says that while nitrates are not as toxic as ammonia or nitrites, it's still toxic in the long run and can ruin overall fish health--killing small fish off quickly and larger fish off slower after years. While your's are not exceedingly high, most of everything I read said to keep it around 20 ppm or lower.

I hope someone can help you and your fish out though.... this is quite perplexing. I hope everything works out for the best!

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sorry for the another post, but I forgot to compliment on how GORGEOUS this fish is What a BEAUTY!.... I also thought of another thing... is there anyway that any of the other two goldfish are bullying the sick fish? especially by nipping her fins?

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Guest FishBuddy

LOL...Disregard this post, I didn't see his post. :wall

I can't be of a whole lot of advise either. I was just wondering what kind of pleco you have? If it is a common, that could be the problem. They love to pick on other fish, and suck the slime coating off of Goldfish. If it is a bushynose pleco(bristlenose) or rubbernose pleco, then your good. That will help rule out one possiblility.

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I think the nitrates are a bit on the high side....water changes to get them down to about 20 ppm would be a good idea. Also, salt cures most parasites and are usually the ideal first course of treatment...giving the wrong meds often does more harm than good. I would honestly put the carbon back in the tank to help remove excess meds and do a 25% water change today and again tomorrow...keep doing water changes until those nitrates get down.

Start salting...you need Aquarium salt (found at the local petstore), not Epsom or Table salt. To treat parasites, you need to bring the tank up to a 0.3% solution...this should be done by increasing .1% every 12 hours. You will add 1 tsp per gallon to bring the water up to a .1% solution. Then in 12 hours, add another 1 tsp per gallon to bring yourself up to a .2% solution. Then in 12 hours, add the final 1 tsp per gallon. Do not add any more salt after this...the salt does not evaporate and will only get removed by water changes. When you do water changes, you need to replace only what you took out...so, if you take out 5 gallons, add 5 tsps of salt. It is best to dissolve the salt in a bucket of tank water to help prevent the fish from getting salt burn.

Good luck!!

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Thanks everyone for offering suggestions and support. Orazio is not feeling well today, but so far she has been holding her own. Today she rested on the bottom quite a bit and has not eaten her dinner. To answer some of the questions we received: Her tankmates (when she is in our 75-gallon tank-now she is hospitalized in a 30-gallon) are two calico-style goldfish, each approx 5 in, and another fancy gold, approx 4 in. I'm uncertain what type of pleco we have, but he does not seem to be nocturnal, and we have never seen him harass the fish in any way (and we spend a LOT of time gazing at our tank!) Similarly we have not observed any instances of the other fish picking on Orazio because of her condition, and this although she spent quite a bit of time in the big tank before we quarrantined her. So...we're still out of ideas. Thank you again friends for your support. Please contact us with further suggestions.

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  • Regular Member

:cry1 uuuuuggggggghhhhhh.... I really wish someone would come and help ya out.....

I wonder if toothless or daryl or any of the other great people here who have helped me out with my fish have read this post. hmmmmmmm......

it just sounds like one of those mystery cases....

maybe she has gill of body flukes or something? maybe this would explain why she gets sick and her body is deteriorating..... have you ever tried prazi? Does she flack/flick while she is swimming ?or rub around any of the tanks decorations? but then again, I know its not too good to medicate when you don't know what the problem is.... but some people here also use medicated food from goldfishconnection.com...

BTW, just wondering, I know it soulds gross, but what collor is orazio's poop? That might tell us what is going on in her body as well.

I found this online. It's the list of reasons on why red streaks in the fins can happen:

1.) from goldfishinfo.com

Check ammonia level, parasites, bacterial infection...

2.) from http://www.cichlidsrus.com/resources/diseases.php

BLOODY FINS Red streaks on fins, especially goldfish. Gyrodactylus parasites (monogenetic trematodes). Use MELAFIX (AQUARIUM PHARMEUTICALS) Use heavy aeration as dead parasites may otherwise cause water to become cloudy.

(but you already used melafix.......)

3.)http://www.elmersaquarium.com/10goldfishproblemchart.htm

Red Streaks :

red streaks on fins

due to a variety of causes. Can be caused by low oxygen levels, crowding, or poor water quality. Can be also do to parasites, or bacterial infection. Do a partial water change, check filtration, add "Fungus Eliminator"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

hopefully some one else will begin replying to this post. Just like you, I want to see this fish get better.

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  • Regular Member

Hi,

I have my own suspicions on the cause, but may need some answers first.

Did Orazio relapse in the hospital tank or main tank?

Do you have driftwood in the tank?

What do you feed your pleco?

You can probably guess from my questions that I suspect the pleco. If my suspicions are correct, I'd suggest you separate pleco from the main tank.

Do post back soon.

Slugger :)

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Thank you very much for your reply. Most recently Orazio relapsed in the hospital tank. She has lived there for about three months. We don't have driftwood (in either tank.) Nigel (the pleco) eats peas when the goldfish receive them; when the golds get dry food he receives a Hikari Algae Wafer. In two years we've never observed an instance of him picking on the fish. Could he be the culprit for some other reason? I know plecos produce a lot of ammonia, but the tanks are biologically stable and water quality is excellent. In any case, Orazio has been alone in a 30-gallon tank for three months.

Yesterday we started Orazio on Metronidazole, putting it into the water and also soaking her food in it. She took the food but today she is still resting on the bottom.

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From bad experience, I never trust any pleco. I have caught one in the dead of night, suckng on poor goldies... Well, if you're sure...

I interpret that the symptoms tend to point to an infection that hasn't quite been killed off.

I would use salt, as suggested by fishyfan7. If you maintain salting for 2 to 4 weeks and keep feeding medicated food, that should help to knock out the infection.

Slugger

PS: I forgot, that if you slowly increase and maintain the temp to about 30C, that will also help kill off bacteria and increase your goldies metabolism. Hopefully she will be more active, eat more, and her natural immunity will increase.

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An update.

At the minimum, Orazio's condition hasn't improved, and possibly it has worsened.

Orazio hasn't been eating, despite our many and varied attempts to feed her, and remains resting on the bottom of the tank. She swims on occasion but quickly settles back to the bottom and appears to be panting. To make matters worse, today we discovered a long, clear poop with blood in it.

Orazio has been medicated with metronidizale for 4 days and we have been feeding her medicated food, but she has not eaten much. We also started Maracyn I and II.

The water quality, despite the absence of media, is good, better even than what we first reported when we opened this topic.

In addition to Orazio's condition, the water has become cloudy, for which the Maracyn may be responsible as well as the missing carbon. (The cloudiness prompted us to check the water conditions and everything looks good). The water became cloudy the previous time we treated her with Maracyn. The last time this happened we did a water change in an attempt to reduce cloudiness, but this was unsuccessful, so we applied Tetra's WaterClaifier which seemed to do the trick. Does anyone know if using the WaterClarifier with the medicines listed above would cause any problems/conflicts? We are interested in clearing up the water because we believe it adds stress to Orazio but don't necessarily want to do a water change and remove medication in the process.

Again, if anyone has any insight for us we would be extrememly appreciative. Orazio is still battling and for as long as she is willing to fight so are we.

Thanks in advance,

snk

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