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Guest LinkinPark

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Guest LinkinPark

Ok for science we have to create an Ecosystem model and I bet a lot of you already have done this. Well we just put our fish and snails and such in the jar yesterday and one of my group members told me today that two of our fish out of three are already dead. I swear these little guys were really healthy and we had EVERYTHING needed for an ecosystem and everything was perfect. How could this of happened?

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Guest golden_goldy93

where'd did you get them. If you got them at mmm, BAD. If you got them at nooppee, BAD. If you got them somewhere else it's probrably just a stress level killing. :exactly

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Guest sourmilknightmares

Here's my piece of advice for you. Those little fishie ecosystems, the don't work! Horror of horrors! Three fish and a snail cannot possibly live in a happy little ecosystem the size of a jar. I don't know why they teach this crap, it's just scenseless slaughter of possibly millions of fish. Alright, I'll get off of that little soap box.

Fish need far more than a tiny little jar with some plants and a snail. You have 4 living animals in there with ALL need oxygen. Sure the plants use carbon dioxide and photosynthensize too but at night, when there is no light they use up oxygen! Those animals also excrete lots of waste. Goldfish AND snails are known for the amount of waste they create. I'm willing to guess your fish died from wither oxygen depletion, stress, ammonia and possibly a comination of all three. I'll let spomebody else explain this a little more in depth as this is a subject that really gets me upset.

Oh! And goldfish aren't strictly vegetarian either. They need some meat in their diet which they aren't getting in those 'perfect' ecosystems.

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Guest LinkinPark

Ok well the jars are actually quite large for one, there is a light for the fish i think thats on all night too, and there is 4-5 snails and stuff

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  • Regular Member

Well,a goldfish needs 10 gallons each.You cant put them in jars.That'll just kill them.

-Good luck with your project but try not tpo use jars.

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Guest sourmilknightmares

Where you get them from isn't as important if they were HEALTHY when you got them. Most of my fish come from nooppee. Yes nooppee and vvvv are bad. That doesn't mean all t he fish you get from there are going to die. I have gotten fish out of a VERY stressful enviroment: ammonia off the chart, so much water circulation and current they COULDN'T swim upright. In fact, they couldn't swim at all, just get pushed around. They came from a very populated feeder tank at a bad pet store that was contaminated with all sorts of sick and dead fish. Six months later I still have these guys. They are healthy, active, and as alive as they can be. Proper care and the fish being healthy when you get them is the key to keeping fish alive.

-edit- the snails aren't going to be helping. If anything they'll make things worse. Snails, the ones I know of, do not eat fish poo. They'll just add a lot to the waste and help eat the plant. No jat is big enough for 3 fish and 5 snails.

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Guest LinkinPark
Well,a goldfish needs 10 gallons each.You cant put them in jars.That'll just kill them.

-Good luck with your project but try not tpo use jars.

324304[/snapback]

lol thanks but we HAVE to use these jars. they arent small jars though people...they are actually quite large. and we got told to get feeder guppies..one thing that concerns me though is that those fish are pond fish and would be used to cold water ya know? well would not the light make the water warm like a heater and make it tropical water which is bad? cause i have heard of people that bought the fancy guppies and fancy snails which are tropical lasted the whole time..i'm guessing that is the reasoning.

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How big are the jars exactly.I wish peopel wouldnt give wrong information -_-

It's okay to let light in.Even though goldfish are coldwater they will do fine in 75 degrees F and lower.It

s okay to keep some light on the jar.Are you allowed to use airpumps.That will give more oxygen to the fish.I dont like the idea of feeder guppies but I guess you have to do it for a good grade.I wouldnt be able to.

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Guest LinkinPark

hmm..well. i can't really explain how big they are by typing lol. And no we aren't allowed filters which is what i'm really not fond of cause i have no clue where they get their air! i mean the lid is sealed shut! :angry: A ecosystem doesn't have a giant lid keeping it from the air! geeezz

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Guest sourmilknightmares

Oh. And here I was thinking you had goldfish. Feeder guppies are waaay different than goldies.

OKay most feeder guppies as diseased and most die in a couple of days even with experianced keepers. It's just due to stress and sickness. The light might have something to do with your fish dying, I wouldn't count on it though. Check the temperature just to see. If it's in the seventies I wouldn't worry too much. Stress, disease, and the fact that they are feeders and therefore not taken care of are probably the main factors. Low oxygen or pH problems might also contribute to the problem.

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Sorry,I though you were talking abot gf because the post was in the gf section.And sour's right.Well,I heard when you have a tank,if the power goes out you can get a back.take some tank water and pour it back out ^_^

Maybe you can do that with the guppies every once in a while??To give some more oxygen??I hope I never have to do that.Because I WILL scream.lol :D

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Guest sourmilknightmares

Hey, the teachers don't have to know you changed water. I knew of a girl who had to do the same thing but with a female betta. Every now and then she would pop open the top and feed her betta and clean out some of the water. She got a good grade AND the fishie survived. She got to keep it.

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  • Regular Member

Hi,

Sorry I can't help with your fish because I don't know much about your eco-system.

I think to make it work, you've got to have a a pretty big jar, about 1 foot diameter. What you could then do is put really lots of aquatic plants in your jar, I mean really lots. Of course you gotta have gravel to do this. I would put fertiliser tabs deep into the gravel for the plants. (Aquarium fertiliser only). Make sure the plants get plenty of sunlight, otherwise you may need lots of full spectrum lighting.

Depending on the types of aquatic plants you got, you may not need to inject carbon dioxide to sustain your plants. Hopefully not, because this may be a hassle for a science project. If you do, then I suggest you build a yeast reactor to grow your own CO2.

Once you got your plants thriving, these should be able to support 1 small fish (not goldfish), but this will depend on the quality of your water. The choice of fish will depend on the water type/temp., but it will be tiny, like guppies?

There are several water parameters you gotta get test kits for, such as pH scale, Ammonia, Nitrates, Nitrites. These are your very basic ones you've got to measure and control. On top of that, your plants will need care.

All in all, this is not a project I would attempt myself for a small jar, but if you look on the web, people have done it with success. Do lots of research on planted aquaria. There is far more on this than I can possibly put into a posting.

This is only a general outline and I'm sure there are many things I've forgotten and holes that others may help to plug ;)

Good luck

Slugger

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  • Regular Member

sourmilknightmares has an excellent suggestion.

Bettas are labyrinth fish and they can survive in pretty low oxygenated water.

For your science project, I'd get a betta, not a guppy.

Slugger

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guppies are going to produce MUCH less waste then a goldfish, and therefor prolly NOT sufficate itself in its own waste.

we did this project. it REALLY is murder for fish.. the best enviroment that was found was just snails, plants and some ghost shrimp... (the shrimps will munch on some of the snails, keeping the population down!)

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When I was in third or forth grade we had to do these projects. I think mine was alittle different.. maybe not. We had two 2 liter bottles, and cut the tops off of them. the first bottle had dirt, with plants and stuff, the bottom one had water with 2 guppies and a snail. apparently, the plants were supposed to take all the bad stuff out of the water, and supply the fish with oxygen. I think my fish lives through the whole ordeal. Looking back, I dont really understand why they make kids do this.

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I just had to chime in here. I think that teachers should be teaching that only so much oxygen can get through a small opening. AND WITH THE TOP OFF. Holy! And u have the top sealed. I feel sorry for the fishies. If a project has to be done it should be a class project with a big tank(30 gal+) with three goldies and a buncha plants. Do it the right way and everyone wins. It could be graded on class participation. Its bad enough when I see bettas in those cups at pet stores. These teachers are setting you up for failure. Tell them that. Or at least get ur parents to. Convince them this whole thing is a trick. Or just refuse to do it. Im the type of person who wont take anything that endangers an animals life for no reason(at least not a good one). The same as cutting up frogs. They make CD-ROMS now with all the info. Use it. Technology is great.

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I agree. If it were me, I would say no to the project, and say harmful it is to the fish, and how they wouldnt allow this to other animals as a class project. Maybe bring a few books into the teacher, or go straight to the principle and talk to them about it. Just a suggestion. I wish when we had to go the project in third or fourth grade, I would have known how bad it was. Your old enough now, that you can stand up for this.

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When I was in third or forth grade we had to do these projects. I think mine was alittle different.. maybe not. We had two 2 liter bottles, and cut the tops off of them. the first bottle had dirt, with plants and stuff, the bottom one had water with 2 guppies and a snail. apparently, the plants were supposed to take all the bad stuff out of the water, and supply the fish with oxygen. I think my fish lives through the whole ordeal. Looking back, I dont really understand why they make kids do this.

324344[/snapback]

thats what we did, but some of the kids wanted shrimp instead of fish. my fish died the first day... but the snail had a meal!

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Yeah, alot of peoples fish died rather fast. But looking back now, I think the teacher replaced most of them, because she didnt want us to be upset about it. Ours wouldnt let us put anything else in the containers with the guppies, but she did let one girl buy who own fancy guppies.... which i remember they did live.

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