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Help! Orando With White Coat On It!


Guest euro

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Ammonia Level (ppm): N/A

Ammonia tester used:

Nitrite (ppm): 0.5

Nitrate(ppm): 160

Are you testing with dipsticks?: yes

pH Level:<6.2

Temperature:r.t. 66F

Heater (yes/no):no

-If YES type

Aeration:oxygen pump

Water change amount/frequency:1/3 per week

Tank size:10 gallon

How long has the tank has been in operation:>2yrs

Type of Filtration:carbon + sponge

Water additives/conditioners/pH adjusters:Aqura Safe by TetraAqura for conditioning and Ampuel+ for treatment

What, how much and how often is your Goldfish fed: Goldfish FLoating Variety Pellets by TopFin. 5 pellets per day

Tank inhabitants (number, size and type of fish/other aquatic pets): only 1 orando three inches exclude tail

New additions/changes to the tank: inherited from a friend two weeks ago

Unusual findings on the Goldfish: blood streaks in fins, body/fins covered with a white film

Unusual behavior: float on side, breathing, no eating

Medications/what has been tried or done do far: Anti-Bacteria by AP Plus+

Please please help my fish!

We got this fish two weeks ago on April 3rd. A friend couple is relocating so they gave us their fish and aquarium. It is a very big beautiful Orando, probably 2-3 years old, 3+ inches long excluding tail. They have had this aquarium for probably 3 years. They used to have two orandos but one died recently. So we were talking about buying a companion for this fish but later on we found out that 10 G tank is too small for 2 fishes of this size. Anyway, we took everything home that day, the tank, fish, food, AmquelPlus+ water treatment and other tools. For the move, they took half water out in their home and we filled it up at our home and added Amquel+ according to instruction.

Here it comes our first goldfish. I borrowed 5 books from our local library and started dreaming what kind of fish we can add to the aquarium......

I fed the fish probably 15 pellets food (my friend told me so) every morning before I leave for work. Middle that week, I noticed a bit redish at the base of the tail fin. Later that week, the blood streak started to show. We changed half of water April 8th night and added Ampuel+ for treatment.

We rushed to the PetMart on Saturday April 9th with some water sample. The water is tested to be high in Nitrite and Ammonia. We learned that 1) we need to use water conditioner on top of Amquel water treatment (my friend never used conditioner) so we bought TetraAqua's AquaSafe conditioner. 2) We probably feed too much. The lady working there told me to feed 5 pellets per day and I have been doing so since then. 3) The fish was having bacteria infection so we bought a bottle of medicine called "Anti-Bacteria" by AP Plus+. 4) We bought 5-in-1 test dip by "Jungle". Following the instruction, the medicine was added for 4 days without carbon filter. After 4 days, one more dose of medicine was added and the carbon filter was inserted back. So the medicine was stopped on Wed. April 13th. For the past week, the condition did not change much, no better but no worse either (at least to my eyes). The fish was swimming and eating. Out of 5 test pads, Nitrate, Nitrite, Alkaline and pH were all pretty good except the water hardness is high. We thought we were doing ok.

Approaching later last week, I noticed one small white dot on the red "cap". The fish was less active. This morning a lot of white dots suddenly appeared on the edge of tail fins and body fins. I was really worried. This afternoon on my way back home, I stopped by PetMart to buy more medicine. The lady working there told me that I should keep on using "Anti-Bacteria" and should not mix more medicines into the tank. When I got back home, the poor fish was floating in water on the side and the whole body, fins and cap were covered with a white film! We changed half water, took carbon filter out, added water conditioner, treatment and medicine. The fish appeared to be a little bit better by "standing up" and swmming a little instead of floating on the side. But after dinner, now, it goes back to float on the side again. It is still breathing though.

I am soooo sad!!! What else can I do? Is it possible to save the fish?

I don't have time to read all through the forum. So I post this first and will read more. Please~~~~~ help~~~~~

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  • Regular Member

Hi Euro,

Are the white spots fuzzy/cottony?

Or:

If those white spots look like sugar or salt Chrystals, then it is ich and antibactrial will not stop it.

Complete water change here, matching the temp. with the water you change out. Need to get those nitrites and especially the high nitrates down/gone asap.

For ich you need to bring the Aquarium up to a 0.3% salt. Thats 1 tsp per gl, three times 12 hours apart. The red in the fins are signs of stress. This is very important, with a ich lifecycle, you need to vaccum the tank gravel daily. The cysts you see are filled with hundreds of tomites and quickly spread when hatched to re-infest. Only add new salt to the water you change out, IE: take out 2 gls, add 2 gls with 0.3% (6 tsp)

Consequently, the salt will also aid with the nitrite...

AQ salt, rock salt, sea salt, as long as it doesn't contain yps...

Yes, dechlor is good, but I see a couple of other problems, the in tank filter, sponge and carbon isn't the greatest, the tank actually needs a minimum of 100 gph, with goldfish you run filters acording to the tank size: 10 x the gl or better.

Ph is a bit low for goldies also, but we can sort that out later, fishy has enough stress! :( 6.2 is pretty low end, goldies need a ph of 7.0/9.0 ish

Raise the temp up to about 78-79* to help speed this little bug on his way out and also help the fish's immune system to get a boost.

Right now the effort is going to be in keeping the water pristine, gravel cleaned and getting him better! :)

Food, please add vegies and fruits to his diet. Peas and Oranges, skin removed, broccoli, green beans, slightly cooked and chopped. Frozen, not canned. Zuchini and yellow squash are good too. Cocktail shrimp, bloodworms.....

A few pellets am, vegies for lunch & Orange for a snack are much better. Too much dry and they can get constipated....

Unfortunatly, lfs people are not the quickest or brightest light bulbs..... <_<

Dip sticks are not very accurate, your better off with drop kits and the tests need done weekly. with the set up you have at the moment, the 10 gl needs changed more frequently....

I'm glad to see you read up a bit before buying another fish. :D

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Thanks so much for your reply!

We changed water yesterday and today. Now Nitrite (0), nitrate (20), alkline (ideal) pH (7). Water is hard. Does it matter?

The fish looks better. The white film is fuzzy/cottonish as you described. This white coating has fallen off the body to the bottomand we suck them out during water change. So the fish looks clear now. What is this white stuff? How do we treat it?

But still there are many problems.

1) blood streaks still exist in the fins

2) There are some splits at the end of the tail

3) The hard "shell" covering the gill (what's the term?) shows blood spot on the edge

4) fish tends to stand on the tail.

5) it doesn't feel like eating from yesterday

Really new to this field. A lot to learn. Thanks a lot for any input!

Euro

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Hi Euro,

Kathy has covered a lot of the most important ground really well. Well done, Evil Sis™. :D

How much water did you change out? I'm a little surprised that your nitrAte went from 160-20 in one change. You must have done a big one. :) The pH is better too. What is the alkalinity reading? Ideal can mean a board range. ;)

Hard water is okay.

If the white cottony grow falls off the body then it is probably saprolegnia or common water mould. Warm water and 0.3% salt should keep that under control.

The red fins are, as Kathy said, signs of stress. It can be due to the poor water quality before you did the water change. It won't just go away. You will have to remove the stressors for a few days and when the fish is really feeling fine then the red streaks will disappear.

Tail standing is also a sign of poor water quality. Please check his gills. Are the gills rich meat red in colour or pale pink/brown/grey? They should be in a nice fan shape, not slimey or tattered.

Try varying the diet as Kathy suggested. Try some mushed cooked peas. Live food.

Good luck! :)

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Besides the already excellent advice given above, there is my input on the white film....

White film covering the entire fish usually is thickening slime coat. The fish does that to protect itself from something irritating - either a massive parasite attack or low pH. In your case my bet is on the very low pH. Does your test kit go any lower than 6.2? If not, it might as well be lower.

Since the pH has gone up with the latest water change, it makes perfect sense that the white film has disappeared. Do you always have troubles with your pH?

Can you test the pH coming right out of the tap?

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Good point, Andrea. :D I was thinking about the low pH causing excess slime production but lost the thought by the time I started to type. It must be old age! :)

Yes, please check you pH. Better still check you KH or alkalinity. A low or zero KH will allow your pH to change very rapidly and possibly crash completely. Get a GH & KH test kit and find out what your KH reading is. It will save you a lot of grief in the future. :)

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Old age, hm? We must be in the same boat then, my favorite "mishap" these days is loosing my keys all over the house! :rofl

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Yeap, keys, cellphone, wallet. At least with the cellphone, I can call it and listen for the ring. :D

318420[/snapback]

Oh, really? But what if you "forgot" to charge it? :rofl

My mind, oh, yeah, where did I leave that one again? Right, its in the night stand drawer!! I remember, because I should have brought it with me on my last trip to the pet store. My mind would have stopped me from yet buying another guppy! :tomuch:

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Hello all,

My oranda is much much beter now. Thank you all so much for your wonderful advices!

He has started swimming and looking for food. He became very active now. The white coat has disappeared. However, the remaining problems are:

1. The end of his tail is still tattered

2. Several scales still missing.

3. Blood streak on tail fin is still there.

Do these problem take time to recover?

So what should I do from now on? Do I still need to change water daily, even the water condition is pretty good now? Do I still need to add conditioner, amqual and anti-bacteria medication dialy?

This fish got sick because I used conditioner, amqual and anti-bacteria medication to remove the blood streak on his tail. I took the carbon out when I add these chemical but still leave the air pump working. I had used these chemical for 4 days and then I stopped as what the instruction on the bottle tells me. And then I put the carbon back to the aquarium. 2 days after the fish got the white coat immediately. I don't know what I did wrong. Can anybody advise when and how to stop using the chemical and medication smoothly?

Thanks a lot!

Euro

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Hi Euro,

The scales will grow back in time. The tail should heal in time as well as long as the condition in the tank is good. Ditto, the red streaks, it should disappear in a few days time if all is well.

Try your best to keep the water pristine. If it means doing some more daily water changes then so be it. If the water is good now then ease off the water changes but monitor the quality regularly.

The best way to stop using meds smoothly is not to use them in the first place. ;) Resist the urge to reach for the meds bottle(s) at the first sign of problem. It is best to assess the situation carefully first rather than react too soon. :)

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