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Black Moor: Eye About To Burst, Tumor?


Guest hamilton9

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Wow, I didn't realize that was there before! I saw that picture a few times too. I must be slipping......

It seems that these types of moors are indeed succeptable to just what we are seeing. It's obviously evident by the dislocated lens floating around in tams eye in the pics. Although, her eyes didn't seem to be infected at that point, they just grew too fast for the lens and the ligaments that suspend it.

I sure hope this isn't as prevalent as its beginning to look. There is at least one more person on this board with this type of moor too! :o

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I find this rather disturbing. It is almost like breeding the line to the point that genetic defect is a real possibility. I can see that the size of the eyes might be attractive to some but would people still be happy with a fish that will go blind in the future because it is in their genetic makeup? A kind of ticking timebomb? Sorry for the rant. :)

Hamilton, any news or update? :)

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I am worried now, cos I have a moor just like Marty and Tam. I wish she had normal moor eyes, but they are not..they are the huge ones. She is not very big, I really worry now!!

Hows Marty?

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Oh! That was you, wasn't it, Diva? :o

Well, I suppose all you can do be hopeful and do your VERY best to keep her water very clean for her. I would also make sure her tank that she's in doesn't have any places for her eye to get snagged on or bump into.

I sure hope you don't see anything like this happening to your moor. If you do, At least we know a bit about what were dealing with here.........

I too am disheartened to learn about this little genetic anomaly. :crp

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Oh she will get the best treatment. Of course I am still learning so much, but I think I know enough to give her the best life I can offer her. Maybe she will be ok. Its just so worrying when you see two with the same thing in the eye, and both of them being the extra large eyed moors.

Yes treat her in a similar way to a bubble eyed goldfish, no sharp objects.

Well she survived the dreaded ich, she had it for two weeks or more a few days after purchase. Salt sorted her out. She is a tough little soul, since shes very tiny. about an inch in body length.

Anyway I am rambling!!

Hope Marty can get well and make owning such a moor less stressful!!

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Guest hamilton9

Diva -- That photo of Tam is amazing. It looks exactly like the same egg/lens that was in Marty's eye. I hope to have more news on Monday and if all goes well, maybe we'll have enough research material to help all the overbred Moors out there.

PondRx did indeed send me large plastic bags and despite not being sure if I had everything in order, I thought I would ship him on Wed. Then I got a hold of 2 fish vets in Los Angeles (one in Orange County) whose assistants said it was possible for them to treat Marty.

I was very relieved to hear this because frankly, while I had every faith in Doc Johnson, I had no confidence that I would pack him correctly, especially with such a fragile eye. The UPS site did have info on shipping live animals but Doc Johnson strenuously warned me NOT to label the shipment as containing live animals. I was very confused and totally stressed out over that as well as figuring out where to get oxygen, how to put it in the bag, etc. (I've emailed him with questions and also an update on finding the local vets.)

I found MobileVet.com who said they used to treat fish but no longer. They referred me to the aquatic specialist in OC. I've left several messages with the assistants, gave them the gallery URL, etc. She sounded like they could treat him on Monday. I also put a call into "the fish lady," a koi specialist in LA. She hasn't called me back but I will keep trying. Her assistant told me they successfully shipped a fish to Doc Johnson (I think) and worse comes to worse, I would solicit their help in shipping Marty for me. I'm wringing my hands just waiting for them to respond. I know they're busy but I'm on pins and needles. Every new vein or discoloration has me thinking this is the moment before the eye will open up. But thankfully that hasn't happened.

Latest developments are that his left eye has formed dark/black areas. I don't know what this means. The eye feels soft and squishy to the touch (thin-skinned). The right eye continues to swell but doesn't appear to have any mass inside. He has been lethargic past couple days and his tail has started to form bloody blisters again. All the white areas of his tail have fallen off, that's why it looked like it was getting better. More photos are here (warning: pretty gruesome):

http://www.hamiltonthecat.com/martygallery2

The blisters appeared after I added epsom salt and Melafix. I've since done a water change. Tests are the same as before (zero everything except 20 mg/L nitrate).

I'm planning on taking Marty to one of those vets on Monday and then decide if they can help or at least help me ship him to Doc Johnson. Many thanks to everyone reading and posting comments!

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H,

If you want I can ship the material I have (oxygen pills, heating pad, etc) to you tomorrow, saturday. Or we can meet somewhere and I give it to you, but i would also be afraid of shipping him at this point. shipping is always hard on fish, even more if they are already sick. :(

let me know if you need anything.

Christie

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Thanks Christie, very generous of you. You have no idea how much that means to me. I do have all the shipping materials except for the pure oxygen (that I must get from a vet). It's coordinating the whole thing that has me all worried (it's a long list). Maybe the fish lady will tell me that I won't need the pure oxygen since I have the Bag Buddies, but I'll have to see if she has indeed successfully shipped fish herself. I've even looked into red eye flights to Georgia! But that really didn't seem possible (even if I carried him onboard, had a battery operated air pump -- could I get through LAX security with that??). Oh boy was my mind racing this week...

In his email, Doc Johnson seemed very confident he could help so that's comforting. At least there is a standby plan if these local vets can't/won't treat him. The OC office said they did treat goldfish so I hope they can fit me in on Monday. If I leave early, I could get there in 2 hours. I just hope they can do something... anything.

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Good luck, hamilton. To be honest, you need to take a break or at least take a step back. You can't just push yourself too hard and try to field every options. If the local vet will take him, do that. It will be less stressful for all concerned. If that falls through then send him to Doc J. He will be in safe hands. You really need to just bite the bullet and do it. Too many options, too many worries won't solve your problem. Be strong, have faith. Use the Force! :D

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Gawd - i just had to redo this post as captk has been reading my mind again :)

I also just wanted to say you've 2 great options - hopefully the simpler of the 2 will come through for you and if not, you've an excellent 2nd option :D . Then hopefully you'll be able to sit back, relax and enjoy a rejuvinated Marty.

As always, my thoughts are with you and my best wishes :)

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Jen, next time, before you post, give us a call and we'll work on a joint declaration. It will save us a lot of duplications. :D

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Just looked at the more recent photos. My God Marty is a fighter, he obviously is trying his hardest to beat this, and so are you Hamilton. You dedication is admirable to say the least.

Absolute BEST OF LUCK for Monday. I hope local vet can do something, and that you and Marty dont have to go through the stress of shipping him out.

We await your news with fingers firmly crossed. *warm smile*

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I am still here researching this thing as well. I have also uncovered something that looks rather promising. I believe that the little round things in his eye are actually eye flukes. They're really called Diplostomum sp.. In the picture below, you can see the telltale round, brownish balls on the iris:

inf041_008_e.jpg

I am still looking further into it but I just felt that this needed to be shared as soon as possible. Of course, because they parasite is a flatworm, praziquantel should kill them off. I believe that the swelling and infection will subside once thats done too. I'll be back shortly..........

Paul

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aaaaarrrrggghhhh! Thats the ONLY picture I could find. So, It is either eye flukes or the damage incurred to that fish above was VERY similar to Marty's. Either way, without re-reading EVERY bit of info in the thrad; Has Marty been treated with praziquantel yet?

I don't know what it is, I just can't get those things out of my head. I swear I will find out what they are if its the last thing I do............. :krazy:

Anyway, good luck! I am very happy to see that Marty has everyone pulling together to get something done for him! :D

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That fish is one22 of a fighter, its wonderful to see that there are so many amazing people on the board who care, hamilton9 we got all of our fingers crossed for you and Marty, and that fish has survived up to this point we know he can pull through anything even losing both his eyes, makes me look at my goldies and realize how resiliant life is

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That image you posted toothless sure looks like the egg things in marty's eye. I am sure you will find more info with such determination!!! LOL

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Guest hamilton9

Made the trek to Orange County yesterday to see the vet! Wonderful place there, warm and friendly staff. Dr. Hildreth examined Marty and wanted to take a sample before doing anything. He withdrew about 3cc of "green tinged fluid with brown specks" from Marty's eye...eeeewl! Then gave him a shot of Baytril with cortisone. He didn't want to do any more for fear of overly stressing Marty out. He's sent the sample to the University of Georgia and has put an urgent stamp on it but warned that while the facility is great, he probably won't hear back from them until next week...

He survived the 2hr drive back but has been sitting at the bottom by the filter intake most of the time. He has eaten some peas (injected with Baytril per Dr. H). The eye is less swollen but more wobbly. His breathing is shallow.

I cannot remember everything he said except that the eye was filled with fluids and that Marty was most probably blind in that eye. I think he was leaning towards glandular tumor. He hadn't read these posts nor seen most of the photos, but seemed confident he could help. I was just so grateful to find a vet who would take me seriously that I couldn't remember all the questions I wanted to ask him. We tried looking for the bloody blisters on the tail but it really stressed Marty out so we stopped.

It really worked out well transporting Marty in the "Cool Bubbles" fish bait container. The whole office wanted to order one! They said it would really help them with their koi transports. Here are links to those containers below if it will be useful to anyone. (I got mine from the first store.)

https://www.landbigfish.com

http://www.basspro.com

http://www.fishermansheadquarters.com

http://www.frabill.com

http://www.castnetworld.com/livebaitwells.html

http://www.eangler.com

http://www.1stopfishingshop.com/SitNFish.html

http://www.minnowmate.com/page/page/955257.htm

Originally I researched alternatives to moving fish as well as to find out what to do in case of a power outage. I hope to have more good news about Marty soon. My thanks again for all your kind words and thoughts.

H.

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That is positive news! :) Green liquid? Yuck! Better out than in. ;) I hope that relieved the pressure on the eye a bit. Fingers continued to be crossed for the next positive development. :)

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Sorry toothless -- forgot to answer your question. Yes, I did try Prazi but I can't remember at what point. Definitely after the white egg but I think that was last August. I couldn't get the right material to help dissolve it properly so I didn't try it again since then.

The eye was starting to tear away from the head but so far no blood, just some white tissue. Dr H seemed to think since this has been going on for the past 4-5 months that he should be okay until the lab results return. Hope so!

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Wow, this must easily be the most interesting case in here that I can remember!

Hamilton, all I can say is that you are an inspiration to everybody and the ultimate dedicated fish keeper! :thumbup And a big Thank you to CaptK and Toothless for all their effort on saving your fish.

And by all means, keep us posted - I am eager to find out what the test results are saying!

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Not the best news. Got lab results back but basically they're telling me they can't identify what's wrong. I'll talk to them tomorrow morning since Marty's still sitting in the corner since he got back. He did eat some peas and did swim a bit tonight but he's mostly hiding by the intake valve.

Dr H is convinced it's a tumor (possible bacterial introduction through nasal septum) but he is unconvinced that Marty could survive a surgery. Options are:

-remove eye

-drain eye monthly

-continue with the antibiotics and see what happens

They faxed over the report but it didn't make any sense. I think they faxed over the wrong one since it mentions something about the liver??? Dr H said the report was a negative for the tests they ran (Lillie-Twort, Acid-fast stain and GMS according to this report) which meant nothing was growing. He explained this indicated there was no infection, which was bad because if it's a tumor, they can't get to it. He mentioned glaucoma secondary to carcinoma (??) Removing the eye would give him some comfort but he couldn't guarantee he would come out of the anesthesia because of his size. His other eye would also be in danger since they can't identify the tumor source.

Definitely at a loss...

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