Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Guest hamilton9

Black Moor: Eye About To Burst, Tumor?

Recommended Posts

Guest hamilton9

Hi everyone. Very new to posting. Apologies for the lazy post without extensively searching this site. Have been searching on/off for almost a year and have not found anything that comes close to what I've been experiencing (definitely could be wrong). Hoping I'm wrong and that's why I'm posting these photos in the hopes that those more experienced may readily identify what I've been dealing with. He (Marty, the black moor) had always bounced back but for the past few weeks, his left eye continues to increase in size. It looks about to burst and he's been sitting on the bottom of the tank more often. He will still search wildly for food if I knock on the tank. Both eyes look about to pop and I've got Bio-bandage on standby... but I'm feeling pretty helpless :( (

Photos:

http://www.hamiltonthecat.com/martygallery/index.html

System:

29 gallons (3 years running), one black moor (3 yrs old), Emperor 404 biofilter, Eheim 2217 filter (top to bottom: two white, ehfisubstrat+ehfilav, blue, ehfimech), heater, airstone and emergency air pump. Tank was cycled with 2 feeder fish that got so big, I had to give them away to make room for Marty.

Maintenance:

Usually every 5 days, 50% -- sometimes more often. Two new carbon filters every month; monthly Eheim light rinsing with white pad replacement every other month.

Water tests:

Ammonia 0.25 mg/L, Nitrate 20 mg/L, Nitrite 0, Total Hardness 250 ppm, Alkalinity 180 ppm, pH 7.6 -- today's results after a water change; last test 5 days ago was 0 ammonia; confused about these results. Mardel 5-in-1 test strips. I'll get new tests tomorrow.

Chemistry changes:

Have tried many different conditioners (Neutral Regulator, AquaSafe, Prime, Amquel -- have given up on Amquel) and medications over the years (followed instructions, did water changes, waited the appropriate time periods, etc. but most did little or nothing). Tried over the years Melafix, Pimafix, Prazi, Maracyn2, Coppersafe, Tetracycline (helped with tail blisters), the standard heat and salt -- up to 0.2% for 14 days at 80 degrees. Bad luck with Maroxy with tropicals so I didn't want to try that. He's also been on/off Medigold. He loves it but it gives him thin white poop.

Food:

Used to feed Wardley Goldfish Crumbles and thawed shelled peas when he was in a 12 gallon with 2 catfish when I first got him as a one-inch baby moor. After he was moved to the main tank 6 months later, I switched to Tetra Exotic sinking mini sticks, shelled peas, long periods of Medigold during eye and tail problem days, then Omega One medium pellets or Top Fin Shrimp pellets. Sometimes soaked the pellets; often did not. Have tried other brands, vegetables, etc -- but above is what he's mostly been eating.

Tankmates:

Originally had an Orange Oranda who rapidly grew into an eight inch monster but was otherwise healthy in all respects... except for suddenly dying for "no apparent reason" (could have been rock as she had a couple near misses with the gravel). Had a second Oranda who did the same thing but for her it was probably dropsy as she puffed up and died head standing. Black Moor didn't seem better or worse during these episodes.

History:

He has pet store chain genetics... strange long tail for a moor, curled pectoral fins, larger eyes than most moors. Has always had eye damage, blood accumulation, bulging, cloudiness. Problems usually went away but always came back despite removing practically everything out of the tank that he could possibly bump into. Then about a year ago his left eye developed an egg. No other way to describe it. Round orb-like thing that would appear and disappear! Has had continuous problems with his tail developing blister-like pustules which would come and go. Sometimes sections of his tail would fall off.

Very sorry for this long post... so many details. I've read so many different possible treatments. Maybe I didn't wait long enough between cleanings? There are lots of maybes. But one thing is for certain -- he is the most darling little creature (had to hand feed him for a few months when he spent a lot of time at the top of the tank and had trouble getting to the food at the bottom). I don't want to lose him and feel something ghastly is going to happen when his eye opens up. I hope you can help me.

Many thanks for reading...

(eye damage)

040301-IMG_1819.jpg

(egg in eye)

040626-IMG_6571.jpg

(swollen)

040601-IMG_5438.jpg

(cloudy)

050114-IMG_0855.jpg

(really swollen)

050211-IMG_1485.jpg

(bursting)

050225-IMG_1946.jpg

(tumors?)

050301-IMG_2188.jpg

050308-IMG_2343.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest VxShady

Could be popeye, thats the only thing I can think of. Thanks for providing all of your information and the pictures I'm sure will be a real help to whichever expert catches this. But I looked around in the treatment section and popeye was the closest I can find. I believe its a sign of dropsy, too, but I'm not sure. Here's the link to Koko's treatment for it. http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...?showtopic=4110

Hopefully some one with some more insight will be along shortly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Hamilton - my moor went through something similar not so long ago and the cloudy eye you see could be an indication of either caustic trauma or a flexobacterial infection.

Just a couple of questions - you say this has been going on for a year? Some moors have enormous eyes however, the cloudy eye attests to something more. Also, i'm trying to work out how many fish you have in your tank?

My suggestion would be to increase your tank's temp to 78F then add salt to 0.3% The way to do this is raise the temperature first then add 29 teaspoons of salt to a jug of your tank water to dissolve it completely before adding - this is 0.1%. Then in 12 hours, repeat and another 12 hours repeat again giving you a total of 0.3%.

Just as an aside - you say you do a 50% water change every 5 days or more? If so then this could be the reason for the rise in your ammonia. That's why I question how many fish. If you're overstocked, i could understand such diligence but if you don't have many fish, then they're not producing the kind of ammonia that makes 50% water changes every 5 days or less necessary - but again, will wait until you confirm numbers.

Hope this helps

Edited by JenW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest hamilton9

Thank you both for such fast replies. Popeye was a possible but I found a lot of conflicting info and then "settled" on one version (perhaps from Koivet) that popeye should be both eyes? But I did try the Maracyn2 to no avail (just made me feel better). I never tried Maracyn1. Could also be some strange combo popeye-dropsy-vvvv kind of disease. But it didn't look as though his scales were raised. He is probably a bit chubby, but then I've never seen any other Moor like him. I think he's about 7-8 inches including the tail. I think his left eye adds another inch...

Since the last Oranda died about 2 months ago (?) he's been the only fish in the tank. Prior to that there was also just one Oranda. When I first got him he was in a 12 gallon with 2 cories (5-6 month period, and really thrived). Then I put him in the 29 gallon with 2 feeders and baby Oranda (the 2 feeders and Oranda cycled the tank before I added the Moor). One month later, I gave the 2 feeders away. After the first Oranda died, I got the second Oranda and had her in quarantine for about 3 weeks before adding her to the 29 gallon tank. But both Orandas could have given him something. So definitely just the Moor in the 29 gallon for the past 2 months and his eye has gotten worse. Veins are popping out and he's very sluggish now. I haven't timed how long he actually spends at the bottom. Maybe I should?? Then he's in the middle or swimming to the top. He definitely sits on the gravel when he's "chewing" his food. This is all new behavior that started 2 months ago. Other times he sits on the gravel with his nose to the Eheim intake valve.

I've been cleaning a lot because I'd add Melafix since I'd worry about the fins, but he'd breathe rapidly after I do so or seems worse so I'd do a water change to get rid of it. Same goes for the salt -- was adding salt for so long (very low concentration) that at one point I thought it was causing his fins to fray, so I'd do a water change. I'd start with one treatment, get discouraged and try something else. Have been getting desperate for awhile and now I'm all confused.

I sometimes see white crud -- thin, hairlike, dust? -- floating around. Don't have a scope to find out what it is. Not a lot, but I'm at such a loss, I figured the only thing I can do is to keep the tank as clean as possible. Actually... I take out 2/3 of the water most of the time. He's chubby so it's very possible I'm overfeeding. On average I'd give him 4-5 Medigold small pellets twice a day and sometimes throw in 4 peas. Or 6 Tetra mini sticks twice a day. When I was handfeeding, it was 2 medium pellets three times a day. I cannot remember what I did differently other than lowering the temp again because for months he was at the surface and couldn't maneuver himself to the bottom to get food. Despite the possible overfeeding, I don't see much poop (except when I feed peas or Medigold).

Other possible diseases that came to mind were: TB, too much nitrogen (forgot to mention using lots of epsom salt -- doesn't seem to have worked, just stopped recently), tumors. The eye trauma seemed to make sense most of the time except for the egg and now (from the eye close-ups) something is definitely growing inside the eye -- are those blood bubbles or cancerous growth??

JenW -- did you say your Moor also had an egg in his eye? No one believed me, thought it was light refraction or something, until I got several photos of it. I tried looking for goldfish eye anatomy images to figure out how in the world it could appear and disappear within seconds (have 2 images time-stamped to show that happened!??) inside his eye. Where was the opening??? The egg wasn't stationery; it moved around his eye when he swam. When the egg disappeared, the eye started to swell.

Whatever I've been doing may have slowed whatever it is he has, but today I can see that skin is starting to break near the top of the eye. I thought for sure the "lens" (?) would pop out first but that hasn't happened. When I touch the eye (yes, I had to!) it feels very soft and squishy, unlike the other eye, which is firm.

Ackt -- must get to bed for work tomorrow. Thank you so much again. I will try that salt routine tomorrow and report back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest VxShady

I'm sorry, its so late and I'm so tired I completely misread most of your original post. I thought it was both eyes and the whole egg thing went right over my head. That is incredibly peculiar. Hopefully some one will figure it all out before he ends up losing it. It sounds like you're bouncing between a lot of different remedies right now and thats probably not good. Just try the salting and raising the temperature like Jen said. You don't want whatever it is becoming resistent to the treatment and you don't want to overwhelm the fish. I'm sure some one will be along shortly that might have a better idea as to whats really going on here. This has been going on for a very long time. Poor little guy. I hope everything works out for you both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cant see the pics :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mine didn't have an egg per se - but there was some swelling that moved around a little and was also squishy to (softly :D ) touch.....When i was researching my moor's problems (mainly via my vet) i discovered that moore's have a tendency to develop problems with their eyes - resulting in cloudiness, ulceration or swelling (popeye). The reason for the bulging is due to an accumulation of fluid either in the eye itself or behind the eye. The many causes of pop-eye include infections from bacteria, viruses and parasites, as well as from water nitrogen supersaturation (too much air), water quality, tumors, internal disorders and nutritional deficiencies.

Treatment of pop-eye iis successful when you find the underlying problem.

I would like to mention something about medicating and what may be its overuse.... you see, medicating even when necessary is always stressful to fish as you're adding toxins to their environment. Using various medications over time may not not only be stressful but toxic as well - in rare cases lethal. Another big problem of overmedicating is that pathogens can build a resistance rendering meds ineffective. If you have used antibiotics to no avail - this is possibly because there was no underlying bacterial problem....

I remember I went into a panic and started throwing all sorts of medicines into my qt to try resolve what I thought was wrong and effectively what i was doing was making the situation worse. So on the advice of my friend the vet - took a step back, got all the meds out of my water and started again by slowly raising the temp to 78F and adding salt. This is what got me through my little fellow's eye trauma - that and perfect water conditions.

What a ramble and my apologies for it - but to sum up (and this is just a suggestion only) - take that step back and start from the beginning. Give him a toxin free environment for a while and see if this helps to improve his condition.

Maybe someone else can add to this but in the meantime, good luck :)

PS - overfeeding? Hmmm yes indeedy - Jenny Craig might have words with you :lol: . Maybe once a day would be best - it's healthier for your fish also :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sandy - can you click on the link at the beginning of the thread? You'll see all the pics there :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

tried that but all i get is a red cross and lots of numbers. dont think i would have known what it was anyway. good luck with treaing him :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest hamilton9

The eye is still there...so I'm relieved but cautious. I do agree with everyone about just sticking to the basics of heat, salt, clean water. Do you think epsom salt is better for this condition? I've tried low dosages. Should I use epsom instead of aquarium salt? Sometimes I've used both but probably not enough to do anything (?)

The egg was pretty creepy. The one unusual event prior to the egg was the (second) Oranda laying eggs all the time. All the time. But the egg in Marty's eye was completely white and about 50% larger than the clear eggs the Oranda was laying. I had some pretty weird thoughts about that at the time. I even kept a schedule of when the egg in the eye would appear and for how long but there were no patterns. It never appeared in the right eye, always in the left. It also appears that most of his fin damage problems are on the left side as well. But now there are white fluffy masses (small) scattered all over his tail. Sometimes they would blister, bleed, pop. Other times, that section of the tail would stop growing (become stiff) and eventually fall off (2-3 inches long).

For a long time I did not want to use any meds because I knew I didn't know what was wrong with him exactly (eye swelling, fins curled, blood in eye). But when the blisters appeared and now that his eye continues to swell, I started with the Maracyn2, etc. And when there was no noticeable improvement, I thought it was more congenital rather than bacterial. But I really needed a second opinion so I finally gathered up all my info and posted to a couple sites that I'd been visiting for a long time.

New tests tonight:

Mardel test strip ammonia 0

Mardel test strip nitrate - still 20 ppm

American Pharma drops ammonia 0

Tetra laborette kit drops ammonia 0

Tetra laborette kit drops nitrite 0

I think you're right that a clean environment and a healthy diet is all I can do for him right now.

My final thought is -- if the swelling doesn't go down and the eye actually, er, erupts... what do I do? How do I clean it and/or make him comfortable? Do I add more salt to clean it or take him out and put bio-bandage or neosporin on him? Where exactly is his brain??? Would I damage his gills with bio-bandage...? A few weeks ago, the left eye was so big, it seemed to prevent his gill from opening on that side. Now that I've seen it open, it *should* be okay... I think.

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful replies. I'm relieved it isn't something really obvious that I've overlooked, that I'm not hurting him out of carelessness. This was the fish who would push catfish out of the way just to get a pea. Very funny, wonderful fish.

P.S. Sandy -- what browser are you using? Can you clear cache and refresh? I've also heard that it could be a character setting (changing it to Western Windows or Latin).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest hamilton9

P.P.S. Okay, no more snacks for him. Don't call Jenny Craig yet. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want to eliminate one possibility - and it's a long shot but here goes :lol: . Spoke to my friend (a vet) who mentioned this egg behind the eye could well be an air sack. This comes from over-aeration. Sometimes if spraybars are positioned to work as streams - and there's more than one in a small tank plus the additon of air stones well - fish may become victim to nitrogen supersaturation. Tiny air bubbles enter the bloodstream and can accumulate behind the eye causing it to protrude.

So - how much air have you got in your tank? :D

If this is the case then epsom salt won't have any effect - as it's used to reduce swelling brought on by an accumulation of fluid.

Let's go by a process of elimination because i know you don't want him to lose his eye.

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Hamilton - showed your pics to a vet who said he shows several signs of secondary bacteria but the underlying cause is hard to pinpoint without actually seeing him.

Just to bounce some things off you:

- His bulging eyes (poor thing) is either water or air accumulation and will benefit from 0.3% salt addition, increased temp and perfect water conditions (pwc/s/t).

- His white eyes (with blood accumulation) points to the possibility of flexobacterial infection. This may be due to trauma and again pwc/s/t should help.

- The sores on his fins point to bacterial infection also. Again pwc/s/t should help

The mystery here is what caused it? Well it could be flukes which is normally the first parasite we might point the finger at but it could also be trichodina or costia - which is where a microscope would be needed.

So the bottom line? - pwc/s/t :D It may take about 3 days before you notice any improvement or deterioration but it helps to narrow it down. After looking at all your pics of him, kinda feel like i know him now and he's so pretty, it'd be nice to help him :) Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest hamilton9

At one point each of his eyes would swell up (not as large as it is today but noticeably larger), it would go back to normal (they look the same size). One would swell, get better, then the other would swell. Usually this was accompanied by blood in the eye. The right eye had the most blood at one point, maybe half his eye was filled with it. Salt and clean water helped and it eventually cleared up about 80% (still some crud on the lens).

When there was no blood, I would wonder if it was nitrogen saturation but I can't remember why I ruled it out (not enough info probably). I did remove a bubble wand which he LOVED to play in. Removing it didn't seem to change anything. He'd still bump his eyes and they would swell, etc. (He still gets very excited today when he finds food and he is definitely knocking his bad eyes against the sides of the tank... I've even thought of getting him a round/cylinder tank..But now when he eats, he's practically motionless at the bottom.) Eventually I was worried there was not enough oxygen or water movement, so I put in a small round airstone that's run on a Tetratec AP100.

There are a lot of bubbles at the surface because of the Eheim spray bar as well as the biowheel filter. I can see small bubbles throughout the tank at all times. However, you bring up a good point and this is just the non-meds approach I feel comfortable trying so I've removed the airstone today, lowered the biowheel spray output and pushed half the Eheim spray bar beneath the surface (so it wouldn't jet across the surface so much). I've raised the temp to 80 and I'll begin salting tomorrow.

Using AquaSafe also produce a lot of bubbles in the tank but I needed an alternative to Neutral Regulator (NR). Another thought at one time was that the use of phosphate buffers like NR might have contributed to an accumulation of deposits (the egg??). I have a ton of Gold Buffer I don't use because I was worried about high temps and high pH not being good. But I stopped using NR for months and it wasn't getting better so I've started using it again.

I'm pretty sure that egg was an egg and not an air sack. It seemed pretty solid. If it was an air sack or bubble it could explain the rapid appearance and disappearance (once he shook his head and poof! it was gone; other times it would stay visible for hours or days). However, the really bizarre part is that there is no longer just one egg... there's an eye full of these little beads (smaller than the egg). Did you get to see that in the photos? Dozens of these dark red or brown growths. It just seems like this egg (or whatever it was)...hatched. UGH!! I have not seen the white egg since the eye started to bulge. I wish I knew whether it was blood forming or something else growing. It looks like cellular growth; the number of "beads" has steadily increased over time.

I really appreciate you taking time to consult with your vet :)) Thank you for doing this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok - so lowered air (hopefully this will help some)

My next suggestion would be going with epsom salt at 1teaspoon per 5 gallons as there may be a lot of fluid there also - and it won't hurt - and then wait patiently for a couple of days to see if there's any improvement. Then at the same time (and hopefully you can get your hands on some), start feeding him medicated food (Medigold is supposedly effective) it's ingested immediately and will get to work on helping with the bacterial infection without playing havoc with your water. If you feed him this - follow the instructions and no overfeeding :D

Hopefully someone else may come along with some more information but in the meantime - we wait with fingers crossed.

PS - that's ok, i do it all the time (thankfully we grew up together :D )

Edited by JenW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PPS - Hamilton just on the last suggestion - that one came from my vet. Salting will help with many ailments, but after she looked at all of your pics, she thought it'd be best to try feed medicated food and run with epsom salt (well... she actually suggested a shot of baytril though not sure how easy that'd be - then went with medicated food).

Hope this helps and good luck.

Cheers

Jen

Edited by JenW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, that is an interesting thread!

Hamilton, looking at your moor reminds me so much of my big blue telescope. He has a normal telescope body, but her eyes have been growing and growing over the years. She is an 8 inch fish now, and the eyes itself have a diameter of around an inch. It looks pretty wird, but I have gotten used to it, as well as the ingreased wiggling due to the size.

This is a shot of her while she was in a show tank at a goldfish show. She has gotten even bigger since then, but you can clearly see her huge eyes.... :)

BlueTelescope.jpg

Moors and telescopes can get quite big eyes, and they can grow uneven - one eye larger than the other.

With the cloudy eye, that is also a common moor/telescope ailment. It could be so because of the excessive breeding to get those eyes the way they are, or indeed a bacterial infection. My telescope has clear eyes, but one of my lionheads is blind on both eyes due to cloudiness. And after I tried most antibacterial meds available, and it didn't go away, I just let her be. She is almost 8 years now, and although blind, still happy as a horse.

I wouldn't take any chances though, and go with Jen's recommended medicated food and epsom salt (1/8 teaspoon per 5 gl), and keep us posted. I am eager to know if you are getting any results from it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same here, would love to know how he's getting on. Ranchu, did you scroll to the end of all Hamilton's pics? The last few were very disturbing.... :crp The first few seemed fine. (Love your moor by the way - she's wonderful :D )

The only other thing I can think of is Spindle Cell Sarcomas. They apparently appear as lesions in viscera, skeletal muscle, or behind the eye, causing whitish, solid masses. It can also manifest as tumors in the eye socket. But I am just not sure unfortunately.

Hopefully we'll hear soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I have seen the last pics, Jen, and tough to look at indeed. Sarcoma, isn't that a form of cancer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi. :)

I just perused through your thread and I have a few observations, comparisons and suggestions for you.

Firstly, as for the finrot, I have battled this particular bacteria before. It is a rather hostile infection wich can and will cause deformities if not death. These blisters you were seeing are the very first clue that tipped me off. Next was the tail actually coming off like that. My comets tail also came apart at the juncture of one of these blisters. He was in transit between a salt dip and his tank when he flapped his tail and 1/3 of his tail flew up against the wall and stuck there!! It actually took me a few minutes to realize where it went. Anyway, it wasn't long after that when I saw the telltale grey threads blowing in and out of his mouth. These telltale threads are of course indicative of columnaris wich is caused by flex-bacter.

The source of flex-bacter infections is quite often involved with parasites. In my case it was flukes but it is not exclusively flukes related. That, or over wintering in ponds or very poor water quality. Since you made the point that he is from a place like wally-mart or something, parasites are a reality. Fortunately, the salt solution and higher temps will take care of most ciliated types. Prazi or fluke tabs and the like should also be ran through in case of flukes though. However, I have one suggestion as to what the "eggs" are in your moors eye/s are. Some sort of cestode or a worm that burrows into flesh. Here is a link to a page that shows you what some cestode eggs look like. Keep in mind, these are intestinal worms. But, this does not mean that you are'nt seeing a very rare occurance of some exotic parasite eggs floating around in the eye. could the swelling be the worms that are laying the eggs? This would certainly explain why the localised swelling occurs when one or some of the "eggs" disapear. Again, this is just a hypothesis at best. The eggs in the pic below are just a representaion of what is possible. Anyway, here's the link:

link

Good clean water, salt and a low 80's temp will certainy get you a long way with battling the tailrot (flexbacter) but you really need to go ahead and try marayn 1. As you know, it is the first drug of choice when flexbacter is involved. Of course, as suggested above, medicated food will certainly help greatly.

Now, I am going to go and have a nice long research session online here and see if I can find ANYTHING similar to what you are seeing in his eye. This is just too weird to not want to figure out, you know? I'll post back soon........

Good luck with this, I've got my fingers crossed for you! :heart

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What an eye opener and sounds extremely nasty - yet seems to fit somehow :blink:

As for sarcoma's Andrea, yeah they're cancerous tumours. I remember seeing a fish once with spindle cell carcoma - an enormous tumour growing out at the back of his eye (not in the actual eye itself though) and it was starting to effect his balance etc so the vet looking after him believed it was worth a shot to attempt removal but once she opened him up, she discovered the tumour spread all the way under his gills down to his spine so the poor thing was euthanized. Horrible :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, 3-4 hours of searching has produced pretty much nothing for me. <_< So, in the absence of information regarding anything similar to this, I can only hypothesis further........

I do not like my previous theory much. There are too many holes in it. So, I have come up with a couple more. Can you answers these few questions?

Can you give me a generl timeline of the symptoms your moor has had since the beginning? It doesnt have to be in vivid detail.

These "eggs" in his eye, you say they jiggle around, right? Well, when they jiggle, do they stay stationary, or do they roll around in there (free-floating?)

In the photos, they look to be all one color, Is this true and is it the exact color of his body?

Ok, here's one of my theories:

This is based on two things; they dont roll around and there is localised swelling when some or all of them disappear. (DO some or all disappear when they do?)

Could these actually be pockets of fluid that has been pushed through a herniated-type tissue in the iris or near/around it? Kindof like when you squeeze a half filld ballon everywhere except for one end and a bubble forms there. All the pressure (fluid) in the eye MUST be trying to make its way out in some fashion or another. Them disappearing and localised swelling would account for fluids being retracted and protracted through the herniated tissue.

Another thing I'm curious of is why they are the same color as his skin. Could there be actual melanophores (skin pigment) attracted to the "hernia" in the iris where the fluid is breaching through? Or is it an actual membrane that is holding the fluid back from flooding the cornea/lens area of the eye?

I'm sorry if you have already thought of or discounted this type of theory. I'm just VERY intrested in trying to get to the bottom of it. I have never seen anything quite like that before!

I hope he's faring well. Good luck and post back soon! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest hamilton9

Appreciate everyone's help. (Loved RanchuGirl's Moor photo -- yes, very much like Marty!) Sorry for no new reports lately. I'll have more water test results later.

Started Maracyn1 last night. Didn't bypass any filters as the instructions had stated (but I'm never sure about this).

The eye remains the same size and skin is starting to break on the top surface. Can't describe it properly but there are several (3-4) "cracks" in the skin. In one area where it looks like it's going to open up, there is redness (blood probably) and some white tissue surfacing. He continues to find food with excitment but then sits on the bottom more than usual. Fins are not clamped. Tail still has bumps and white fluffy "spots." Can't tell if there's more or less of it.

I'm hoping the heat, salt, etc. has been slowing down the condition, perhaps stabilizing him, but ultimately forestalling the inevitable. I will get a timeline for everyone later tonight.

About the white egg -- it was often in the same area as the photo but it would "roll" back and forth along the bottom (it was never at the top). While it looked 3D, I could never figure out how it could appear and disappear. Is there a space between the layers of the cornea/iris...?? Could not find anatomy charts for Moor eyes. I was starting to think that the "black" part of his eye was actually further back than the gold part so that there would be a gap wide enough for an egg to slip in and out.

However, the white egg has not returned since the eye started to balloon (around last Nov/Dec). Actually, it could be there but I can't see it because there's so much blood or fluid. The only thing that's there now are all these tiny round red/brown growths (Feb 11). Cannot tell if they're the same color as he is but it looks like it is. They do not seem to be moving, just growing in number. I can only see them when I look at the digital images. I can't see them with the naked eye. They don't seem to be growing rapidly but they have increased in number. They look suspended in the eye. Since part of the lens is covered with a dark film, I can't tell what's going on in that area. I think they started growing from the left side of the eye and moved to the right side.

I forgot to mention that the image names have dates on them. First occurence of these growths is around Feb 11.

Thank you all for your kind support and thoughtful investigations. Another forum I posted to simply told me to euthanize him. Very unacceptable :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest hamilton9

Sorry Ranchu... read again and it said Blue Telescope. Marty seems to always face my direction (as I sit at my computer desk on the right side of the tank). I know he can't see me. It's just curious that he prefers the bad left eye facing the tank corner. He does remember that food usually falls in that corner (he has a tough time finding food so I was putting it in the same spot each time). This far right corner is also opposite the filter intake so it doesn't get sucked up before he could find it. There's also no gravel in this corner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...