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Possible Dropsy?


Guest Indiglo

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Guest Indiglo

Ammonia Level : 0

Nitrite Level? 0

Nitrate level? ~20

Ph Level? unknown

Tank size and How long running? 28 gallons, a few months

What kind of Filtration? Penguin 125 and emperror not sure on size

How often do you change the water and how much? every 2 weeks 35%

What kind of Water additives or conditioners? yellow bottle forget name atm

How many fish in the tank and there size? 2 + 2 snails

What do you feed your fish? Progold sinking, lionhead floating

Any unusual findings on the fish? Such as "grains of salt", bloody streaks, frayed fins, fungus? I think she's starting to pinecone a little bit

Any unusual behavior? Last night began floating a lit (head down) and having trouble swimming, now this morning she's just laying (on her belly) on the bottom. her breathing looks aggitated, small slow breaths... and like i said it looks like shes beginning to pinecone.....

i have a 10 gallon tank but its not set up, should i move her into there or should i just treat my whole 28 gallon...and what should i do to treat, i've never dealt with this before...

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  • Regular Member

She is a cutie!! Sorry to hear she isn't feeling well.

I would start the treatment for Dropsy, you can read a pinned thread of mine and Koko's that will lead you right thru the treatment. It is at the top of the diagn/discuss forum.

I would put her in the iso tank and slowly raise the temp to around 80 degrees. What is the temp of the tank she is in now?

Also getting some Maracyn2 to start and follow that treatment with Maracyn both full treatments. Epsom salts and Metromed food will also be needed.

Keep us posted

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Guest Indiglo

thanks, i'm reading through that thread at the moment, a little intimidating with all the info...

just looking at the first pic (back view) is that the pinecone effect or am i just too worried and seeing things?

my biggest fear about the 10 gallon hospital tank is that the filtration and air suck...

i only have a topfin10 filter that barely moves water through it and 1 single simple airstone....

i'm between jobs right now so i dont have a lot of money to spend on new filters and such....

am going to go to vvvv in a few minutes to pick up the meds and stop by the store for epson salts....

bleh, i went a whole year with no problems at all... =(

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Try and not let it overwhelm you. I think the 10gal and filter will be fine. The airstone should be good as well.

Start with slowly increasing the temp 1 degree every hour or 2 until it is where you want it.

Use the epsom salt 1/8 of a teaspoon per 5 gals.

Start with the maracyn 2 and do a full treatment. Then run carbon for 24 hours giving the fish a break from the meds and cleaning out the maracyn 2.

Then start the maracyn treatment do a full treatment.

Make sure the epsom salt is in the tank during these treatments.

Feed the metromed food a full 21 days even when you see an improvement.

Does this help you to break it down better?

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Guest Indiglo

OK, i jut got back from vvvv finally, i got my maracyn-2, heater, thermomiter, slightly bigger bubble device, and some "cycle". My i'm gonna set up the hospital tank when i finish my lunch.....

i'm so worried about the cycle, the back of the meds says not to do water changes...duno what to do....

also, this tank was used as a quarentein tank previously and the fish i got came down with ich and died in the tank, i rinsed the tank out well with hot water but that's it......will that be good enough?

sorry for so many questions...

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Guest Indiglo

Yet another big question, i know i'm asking much with not many replies but hopefully someone will read this soon and help me out....

My next question is this, Instead of moving my sick fish to my uncycled 10 gallon hospital tank. Could i just move my snails out of my 30 to the 10 and treat the 30 gallon. I only have 1 other fish in there...Would it hurt him if i treated him as well. or would i be better off just moving to the 10 gallon and treating that and hope the cycle doenst get bad spikes....

plz, i need advise asap, i'm waiting to treat for advice and i know the longer i wait the harder it is to cure... plz help

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Guest Indiglo

well i decided to put her in the 10 gallon, she's been in there for an hour and a half now, the maracyn2 is almot dissolved and the water temp is getting warmer.....still trying to figure out this heater..

she's back to the bottom just sitting there, will post later on any updates

*mods, i guess u can move this out of the "emergency" thread and into just general disease discussion....

thx

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  • Regular Member

I think I will leave it for a day or so in here and see where we get. Thanks for being thoughtful on the "911" help line.

I agree to put her in the 10 gal tank. Keep an eye on the cycle hopefully you seeded the iso tank with main tank water if you didn't no big deal. Watch though many members have reported that the maracyns will stop any type of bio cycle therefore not being able to have a stable cycle in place. However I was able to keep mine intack, how I don't know just tested everyday and didn't really see a spike. So don't freak out if the tank doesn't cycle.

Next It will take a day or two before you may see any difference.

Oh before I move on if you get a high ammonia reading just do a water change replacing the maracyn and salt you remove=====make sense???

As far as the old ich I don't know hopefully it will be ok, how long ago was the ich in there?

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Guest Indiglo

Lets see, i did seed the iso tank with water from my main tank, 65% of the water came from my main tank. also, i took the filter pad out of my filter and jammed it down into the back of the filter in my iso, and took a few handfulls of my rocks and threw them into the iso tank. Also, i got a small bottle of the product called "cycle" which claims to contain dormant bacteria and dumped that in the tank as well....

i'll be keeping a VERY close eye on the ammonia. and will change water accordingly. If that situation happens to arise i'll probably post again to ask exactly how much to take out and how much meds and salt to put back in. I put about 1/2 a teaspoon of eps salt into the tank (10 gallon) and it didnt seem like much at all, should i add more tomorrow or any other days?

Also i think i got the heater figured out and the water has been teetering around 81 degrees, i'm trying to trim it down a bit but the heater really sucks so i duno how close i'll get it...

Back the the ICH subject, it was only about a week ago maybe, but the tank sat completely dried out for the week and today i washed the tank pretty thoroughly with scalding hot water for about 15 minutes then put some antibacteria soap into it and then rinsed the soap out for another 30 mins....

I'll keep my eye out, i would imagine the dropsy and ich together will be a pretty lethal dose of badness...

OH, as far as food i couldnt find the product that u were referring to. All i could find was Jungle "Anti-Bacteria Medicated Fish food" for internal and external bacterial infections... i'll try to check at a LFS tomorrow (if they are still open) for the product u mentioned but for now do you think this will be good enough? I fed her about an hour ago and she got VERY ennergetic and ate up all the food liek she always does...

In closing, i can say she is doing much better allready, much more ennergetic in the past hour, exploring her "new" tank and trying to root through the rocks... Her physical appearance appears the same tho with the bloating and pineconing. also i noticed she is pooping out a very very thin and clear substance that looks like slime. i guess this is just another symptom of dropsy.

Well sorry to keep this so long and thank you SO much allready for your help...

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You are very welcome.

The medicated food "metromed" is available from goldfish connection here in the states. Are you in the states?

Stores do not carry it.

The epsom salt dose is 1/8 teaspoon per 5 gals so be careful you are alittle over what you should be. You should've only added 1/4 teaspoon. Watch closely you may have to remove 5 gals or so of water if she seems to get stressed. Most certainly don't add any more.

If she is acting ok then just watch her and see what she is doing tomorrow.

I am glad to help I hope she pulls thru.

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Guest Indiglo

Yes i am in the states and i have ordered pro-gold from gfconnection before and i just ordered some of these meds =) Thanks for pointing them out for me.

I feel bad that i put too much salt in the tank...bleh i always have a tendency to overdo things like that, 1/4th of a t/s just didnt look like much at all and i always assume "more is better". Such a HORRIBLE habit i have...

She doenst seem to be stressed at all, actually for the past hour now she's been scrumming through the gravel looking for goodies =) acting just like normal. i hope this is a good sign... i think she is just excited to be in a new tank... silly fish!

anyways i'll start the new meds when they get here, but untill then i guess i'll just keep using this jungle anti-bacteria stuff that i got at vvvv...

thanks again...

Oh, i have one more pic for you to look at. ... you have to look closely tho..

http://www.birdnest.org/garmanm1/IMG_0318.JPG

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Guest Indiglo

woke up this morning, she is still doing well... still swolen and pineconed but still very active... she loves this food that i got here and was very excited that i woke up...

i put her hospital tank right next to my bed so when i wake up she knows =)

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:D Thanks that picture made me smile.

I am glad she is doing better, let's hope she continues. It does take a while for an drastic improvement.

Just an FYI often once they have Dropsy they need to live in the warmer temps. But that will be a few weeks from now so hang on in there.

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Guest Indiglo

koko thanks a ton, thankfully goldfish connection is REALLY fast =) i got mine in the mail saturday... thanks so much for the offer tho...

Today is day 5 of the maracyn2. What do i need to do now? When do i need to start removing the meds (water chance and carbon)?

She looks about the same, still very active and "acting" normal although she still looks slightly pineconed....

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Guest Indiglo

just checked my ammonia today and i'm at 1.0 ppm

how much water do i change and how much meds/salt do i add back in?

Hrmph....treating sick fish is no fun

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YOu're right it isn't fun at all.

Since the ammonia is high I would change about 75% of the water and put carbon in the filter let it run a full 24 hours. This will give the filter time to get it all "soaked" up and let the fish have a break from the meds.

After that test the water if you have any ammonia do another 75% water change and start with the Maracyn. Do a full treatment of that.

Do you still have the epsom in there for the swelling? Remember if you do when you remove water it will remove the epsom so you will have to figure out how much by measuring how much water you remove.

Good luck, glad to see she is hanging in there.

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Guest Indiglo

Well here i am again, just finished my Maracyn treatment, did a 75% water chance and replaced carbon in my filters....(yes i have bought another filter for the tank since i started this ordeal, now running 2)

Fish seems to be doing great, actually think she likes being in the 10 gallon tank by herself and not with my big oranda...o well, more on that later...

anyways, like i said, i've finished medicating and fish seems well, what is next step? I still have heat in the tank. I have NOT readded any epsom salt. should i? Also, i'm still only feeding metro-meds 2x daily...

whats next? Thanks again for all your help, i feel that my fish wouldnt have made it through this without you (Attn: LaurieP)

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It is my pleasure to help you. I was frantic when Sapphire got dropsy and Koko was kind enough to lead her and I thru it, so it is fitting I can pass on the same.

For now I would leave things the way it is. The metromed has to be fed for a full 21 days. Are you keeping track? If you aren't estimate and go a week over just to be safe.

Also what temp is the tank? For right now we keep things the way they are. Until the metrogold is done. Then if you want to try to "wean" her back down to a normal temp and into the main tank we can try. I will tell you this is not easy, most "survivors" require the higher temp as long as they are with us.

Oh, you can use the epsom any time you feel she is "swollen", or leave it out at this point. Let her tell you if she needs it.

Keep us posted, I am so glad to hear it went well. B)

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Guest Indiglo

Ok sounds good, i didnt keep track when i started meds but i can figure it out. She is very active lately, even more then when she was in my main tank. I have her hospital tank right next to my bed so she gets lots of attention when i wake up and go to bed....she seems very happy...

the temp is right at 80degrees, i'll post again when i start weaning her off after the meds are done

untill then, thanks again for the help, i really hope she can go back in my main tank because i think i've decided to leave my 10 gallon where it is and get a bubble eye that i've always wanted =P

-thanks again

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Hahaha I bet she does like all the attention!!

I had so hoped to get my Sapphy back in the main tank after her ordeal. But after she was in there a week the dropsy started to return and I had to isolate her again. Her dropsy stims from "males and spawning" she got egg bound and that is what set her off. So when she is in with the 2 boys, well it is overwhelming to her.

Fortunatly I have introduced one of my males to her tank about a month ago (since he needed iso'ed as well) and so far so good, no problems. I call them my 2 floaters, because they both have moderate cases of SBD all the time.

Quite funny they are together.

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