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JessicaandMarshall

I Am In Big Trouble

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Over the Christmas break, while Koko's was down, my Ranchu Chubby came down with dropsy. I followed the instructions on the Pure Gold site, and did a scrape for parasites before raising the temp, but he still died.

Now in a DIFFERENT tank, I have dropsy again! =o(

Ok, here's my tank stats :

It's a 44 gallon tank, 4 fish, it's been set up for I don't know, 17 months or so.

Ammonia, 0

nitrite 0,

nitrate 10 ppm.

pH 8

My test kids are brand new, and don't expire (according to the box) until 2007 and 2008. This was using my new nitrate test too, because I suspected high nitrates.

They eat a variety of foods, including fresh fruits and veggies but the main diet is homemade gel food and Hikari Lionhead.

I use Aqua Plus water conditioner.

It has a 14" airstone, an A/C 300 filter, and I gravel vac weekly, and usually do a water change of 30-40%. Sometimes I change water during the week, which I have been doing. I gravel vacced the day before yesterday and did another 10 gal water change today.

Now that you know the stats, here's the deal with my fish.

Woogie was getting floatie, so I put him on a special diet of only gel food, and he stopped floating. I gradually reintroduced him to very presoaked and squeezed pellets and he was doing fine. Then he must have found a Hikari pellet on the bottom (I've been keeping the him off of Hikari but I always drop a few pellets for my small fish and the weather loach while woogie is near the top eating his gel food) because he started floating upside down.

Since he was floating completely upside down, I gave him a half a pea with a grain of epsom salt in it.

The next morning he was swimming fine, but his tail was split into ribbons. It did not look like any fin rot I've ever seen. It was clean cuts, like it was done with scissors. It was split all over like a lawn mower hit him.

I dipped his tail where it was split in peroxide and added 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons.

The next day (today) I notice his scales look like they are sticking out a bit. It was hard to tell because Woogies scales ALWAYS stick out, I am pretty sure he is not an Oranda, but a Crowned Pearlscale x Fantail mix. I bought him as a fantail.

Anyway, Woogie is the most aggressive fish when it comes to food. He didn't eat the peas I dropped in. I dropped a piece of orange which he usually attacks viciously, and he only pecked half heartedly at it then gave it to the other fish.

He seemed very lethargic and week, and just drifted around the tank with the current and then dropped to the bottom.

I watched him for a bit, and his scales lifted more. He looks very fat behind his head now.

I put him in a breeding net/trap thing because I have two rescues in my q/t tank (d'oh!).

I offered him metro-meds and he wouldn't eat them. I finally got him to take it from my hand. He would eat only if I hand fed them to him.

After he ate some pellets, he got strength back, and started swimming around in the breeder box, I kept dropping pellets in there periodically through out the day. He ate the metro meds up.

I let him out of the breeder box and back into the tank this evening. He was just resting near the bottom a few minutes ago, but he comes up swimming when I go to the glass.

Is there anything else I can do? Should I feed everyone in that tank Metro-meds? This is the second tank to get dropsy in a matter of weeks. Whitie Snowflake is in this tank, I can't stand the thought of her getting sick.

Woogie's belly is smooshy, there was no signs of parasites, and his gills are lighter than they were last time I gave him the fish physical, they are a dark pink, medium red colour.

I can't believe I am killing all my fish!!!!!!

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Sorry to hear your problems. IF you look in the pinned section of this forum you can find Koko's treatment for Dropsy, it is my thread called Popeye/Dropsy. She lead me thru treating for this and I had sucsess.

Do you know what caused the dropsy? This will be important at some point. Dropsy itself is NOT contagious, but what causes it can be. So you will need to narrow it down to keep it from happening again.

Good luck

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Laurie, I have no idea what caused this.

I just finished reading the section on Dropsy, I've already done all that =o(

It was not poor water, it was not temp fluctuation, it does not seem to be parasites I did a scrape and did not find any, they aren't under any undue stress, I am pretty sure it was not hydrogen sulfide poisoning.

I really think it must be bacterial, this is the second fish in a different tank to get dropsy.

It would be much easier if I knew why this was happening, I wish it was something stupid like the water quality, at least then I would know how to fix it.

I am honestly dizzy just thinking about this, I feel like I'm going to faint. *cries*

My only hope now is the metro-meds. I forgot to mention, my tanks are always at 76-78 normally when no one is sick.

Are their injections for this? I will go to any lengths necessary to try to save this fish, but I have no idea what else I can do, or how I can find out what is causing this.

It's driving me mad! It's very upsetting, I am very close to giving up goldfish right now, I can't stand to bury another one in my garden, I've had all my fish over a year (except one) and many longer, Woogie was one of my first fish, I don't want him to die :*(

Jessica

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Ok his first symptom before he dropsied, was split tail fins. What else besides water quality will split the fins? I am searching for an answer right now, but if anyone knows, please share!

Jessica

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Hmmm about the split fins???? Maybe another fish, a plant, a decoration????

Do you know if this is a male or female?

I was lucky my symptom was very plain, so diagnosising it was easy.

I don't know if the Maracyn's treat for bacterial. Hmmm.

Maybe switching him back to the gel food permently????

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Thank you for your help Laurie.

He is a male, he's about 6" long. He has to eat the metro-meds for 2 weeks and if he makes it, then only gel food for him.

I am trying to figure out if his fin splits were from whatever is causing the dropsy, but I guess I will probably never know.

I just checked on him, he was lying on the bottom but did a happy dance for me and swam to the top, I caught him in a container, well I didn't have to catch him, he swam in, and I fed him so more metro-meds. Metro-meds I was worried would make him floatie, but so far they don't. After he eats, he seems stronger.

I have not added Maracyn to the tank, I know some recommend that for dropsy, but others are against it. I think it might be useful, but in this case probably not, I think more meds would tox him. I have epsom salt, temp raised, and metro-meds.

If he gets stronger over the next couple of days, I will be more open to meds if I can figure out what I am supposed to be treating.

Is there anyway to tell if you have a bacterial infection besides doing a culture?

Jessica

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Hi Jess. :(

Sorry to read about your heartache with woogie. He's quite the charmer. :heart

Right off the bat, the description you gave of his tail being in shreds, my first thought was pH swings. Is your pH steady?

Barring pH swings, this is definitely bacterial in nature. Wether it's connected to your ranchu or not, I couldn't say.

Can you get the maracyns there? Treating him as it says in the treatment forum (while isolated) and feeding metromed would be my first course of action. The combination of the two is highly touted as a superb broad spectrum treatment and will even treat internally. Then theres Maracyn Plus, I've had great success in treating internal bacterial infections with it. Ultimately there's a trip to the vets for a baytril shot (or if there's someting better?)....... Other than that, I truly wish there were more............ :crp

Good luck with him, Jess. :heart Keep us posted.

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Now that I am not sure of. Has his poop been white lately? I do know that is a sign.

As far as not using meds until you know that is good, to many people opt to jump on them as soon as anything is showing. However I would have to disagree with those that say they did not like the Maracyns for Dropsy. It was a miracle treatment with my Sapphy. Along with the other stuff.

I will try and be of more help if I can, just let me know. Good luck

Oh I was hoping you would say a girl then I could say hey maybe egg bound but since he is a boy...............hmmmm.

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Thanks again Laurie, and Toothless.

My pH is 8, I thought of pH swings too, I've been doing a lot of reading on here heehee.

My pH is as steady as a rock. I've had no pH swings.

I can get the Maracyns here, so I will stock up.

Why exactly would someone give a baytril shot, what does it treat? I keep reading about Baytril, but I haven't read what it is used for? Does it help with Dropsy?

Jessica

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ps, someone has been pooping white every now and again, but I don't know who it was, so it may or may not have been woogie.

Jessica

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It is good Paul is on the case, he knows alot more about bacterial infects than I.

On a side note it is good to know Maracyns are good for bacterial as well.

I do hope you can get him well, it is so hard when we know something is wrong but can't put our finger on it.

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Being that i have no experience with Baytril (let alone injectables), I could only venture a guess and sat that it effects on a wide spectrum of both gram positive and gram negative bacteria (from the inside out) is it's selling point.

Since dropsy is a symptom of an internal affliction (ie. kidney failure), the two best ways to treat are injections or medicated foods. If the metromed and maracyns don't do anything for Woogie, The vets might be a good idea. Do you have a vet that knows fish? If not, it'll really help if you bring along as much literature as you can on baytril or possibly another injectable (Baytril is rather safe).

Poor Woogie. I've got my fingers crossed for the both of you. :unsure:

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Thanks again Laurie and Toothless.

My vet is only open on Saturday till noon, so hopefully Woogie will get better with metromeds and maracyn. If not and he is still standing errr swimming on Monday, I will try to get him in. I say try because they don't do fish as far as I know. I don't know what their policy is on clients injecting their own animals, but they know me, so maybe they will be willing to give me the shot. I can give injections and have no problem doing it, although I have never given one to a fish before, only mammels LOL.

They do have a marine tank in their office, but the last few times I was in, it was void of fish, so I don't know if they killed them, or what's up with that.

Thanks for crossing your fingers, I thought he looked not so pine coned the last time I was upstairs, but knowing me, it could just be wishful thinking.

Jessica

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