Regular Member LaurieP Posted September 30, 2004 Regular Member Share Posted September 30, 2004 (edited) Hi guys. Here are my answers: Ammonia-0, Nitrites-o, PH-7.6, Nitrates-20-60 (sometimes that one is hard to read). 46 gal tank with an Emperor 400 running on it. Prime added to it when I do water changes. No meds in there right now. Right now I feed Hikari Ornada Gold, peas, Lionhead. Unusual behavoir: Sapphire (the one with the problems right now) has had on and off again SBD. This started over resorbing eggs. She has also became "lazy" she swims slower than normal since all this began. I have been fasting and feeding peas for over 3 weeks. I have not seen any SBD symptoms in about 3 days. She eats, but not as much as she use to. I do a 50% water change once a week. There is 5 orandas in the tank ranging from 4-6 inches. No new fish. CB has a split in a fin, I believe from rough playing (has been trying to spawn with Smudge lately). Sapphire is the one I'm seeking help on. Her RT eye around the top of the "eyeball" looks swollen. It is the same color of the rest of her and doesn't really look like popeye, but what else could it be? I have noticed that her "cheeks" have begun to look bigger and are now Droopy. Does that make sense? She is open mouth breathing alittle more than normal, that started today. All levels from the tap are 0. The chloramines I don't know. Any help would be wonderful. I don't have a hospital tank right now, I'm going to see what I can do about that in the next few days. I'm going to start them on Medigold tomorrow. What else should I do? Thanks guys. PS Could it possibly be just wen growth? And not anything else? Has anyone ever made a comparison to fat droopy cheeks and dropsy? Edited November 21, 2004 by koko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Ranchugirl Posted September 30, 2004 Regular Member Share Posted September 30, 2004 Laurie, when you say her cheeks become fatter and droopy, does that include a little more headgrowth towards the gills, or ist that just in the face? Just wondering, because if the headgrowth advances too much towards and over the gills, the fish has problems moving them, and therefore doesn't get enough oxygen, which would explain the gasping for air a bit more. Popeye really should look like the shape of a bagle, with the eye ball being the middle of that "wheel". If the swelling is just on one side of the eye, not all around, could she have run into something in the tank - ornament, filter intake?..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member LaurieP Posted September 30, 2004 Author Regular Member Share Posted September 30, 2004 Andrea, Yes her wen is covering part of her gills. It really has always been that way, so I'm not sure if it is worse. It is hard to describe, the little "flappy" part is barely visible and sometimes when she is breathing it will curl under and stick. Does that make sense? Her cheek growth is really just in the front. What is a bagle? I suppose she could have run into something in the last few days. She has never been graceful and since the SBD, she has been all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Ranchugirl Posted September 30, 2004 Regular Member Share Posted September 30, 2004 You have never tried a bagel, Laurie? With cream cheese and some chives? Okay, then here comes some proper american food, at least something that keeps me away from the egg mc muffins... http://www.brueggers.com/cheese.html It basically looks like a donut, exept its made from bread dough. Her cheeks could have start to grow a little more. It is on both sides, right? Or just on the side where the eye appears swollen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member LaurieP Posted September 30, 2004 Author Regular Member Share Posted September 30, 2004 OH gosh I'm so embarassed. A bagle, duh, yes I know what a bagel is. Sorry my brain is not with me right now (left it at work). I actually thought that "bagel" was a fish term. *red face*, The big cheeks are the same on both sides. The reason I am conserned about them being bigger and more droopy is, I had an oranda that I noticed this trait appearing and then dropsy followed it. She didn't make it. Do you think Medigold would be ok to start? Also I'm so afraid you are going to tell me to trim the wen around the gills, are you?????? What else if anything do you think I need to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Ranchugirl Posted September 30, 2004 Regular Member Share Posted September 30, 2004 Sure, go ahead with the Medigold, Laurie. If the eye got hurt someplace, a round of antibiotics doesn't do any harm and keeps the nasty bacteria in check. You see any red or injury on the eye? Salt of course comes to mind as well.... How bad is the growth on the gills? Trimming around the gills would be a really tricky thing, and last resort, to do. Its a delicate area, and playing around there with a razor or scissor is nothing to mess around with.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member LaurieP Posted September 30, 2004 Author Regular Member Share Posted September 30, 2004 Thanks, The eye itself looks perfectly fine. No blood or bulging, and the "swelling" itself is the same. No blood or "injury" look to it. Now what would you call last resort with trimming the gills? Believe me I"m very well aware how delicate that would be. (don't want to ever have to do it), but I'm nervous it may be a problem in the future (if not now). Do you think keeping her with the others is wrong as well? I so don't have the money to get a hospital tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Ranchugirl Posted September 30, 2004 Regular Member Share Posted September 30, 2004 A good example when its time to get the scissors out - the fish constantly, all day long, gasping desperately for air, the gill flaps moving rapidly in an effort to get oxygen in, the fish on top of the water all day long, and otherwise being lethargic from lack of oxygen. Some have it so badly that they basically lose body functions, they just float around. Somewhat like us humans feeling the effects of less oxygen in higher mountain areas..... As for keeping her separate, if she is not bullied by anybody and gets her fair share of food, I wouldn't single her out. I would just remove anything she could bump into, and cover the intake tube with foam or stocking. There is however a simple piece of plastic aida that you can use as a "room devider" if you feel she is more comfortable by herself right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member LaurieP Posted September 30, 2004 Author Regular Member Share Posted September 30, 2004 I think I will keep her with the others. Jester and SMudge seem to hang out with her. I think they know something isn't right. As for gills and oxygen. She doesn't hang out on the surface, but most definetly "hang" out floating around all day. Very lethargic is a good way to put it. I attributed the "lack of activity" just from SBD and not the gills but I guess this could be the problem? Oh man I guess I"m gonna have to watch her a little more and determine what is going on with this. Thanks gotta go to bed but I"ll check in tomorrow night and update you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member fisharenewtome Posted September 30, 2004 Regular Member Share Posted September 30, 2004 Aack! Laurie - what is this????? Sadly I haven/t had to treat for this yet! (or maybe not so sadly.....) If you need me to google on it - just let me know!!! Oh your poor fishy! Jenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Devs Posted September 30, 2004 Regular Member Share Posted September 30, 2004 Good Gosh Laurie!!!! I hope it's not popeye,but that is treatable,anyway... Look in my thread about Louie. Erika and koko both posted really good pics of popeye. Post soon with a pic from hubby so we can see what you mean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member LaurieP Posted October 1, 2004 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 1, 2004 OH Gosh, Help Help. She is showing signs of Dropsy!!!!!!! I came home to her rapidly breathing and pineconing!!! She is just hanging out in the middle of the tank. Above the eye is swollen much more than this morning, it looks to be fluid filled, sorta transparent. It is about 3 times the size it was this morning. Her belly looks like it is going to explode. What do I do???? I'm so scared, I don't want to go thru this again. Not my Sapphy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin koko Posted October 1, 2004 Admin Share Posted October 1, 2004 Okay hun does she look like this in a way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin koko Posted October 1, 2004 Admin Share Posted October 1, 2004 Dropsy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member LaurieP Posted October 1, 2004 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 1, 2004 No, it isn't Popeye. Thought it might be yesturday but not now. Just looks like the top of her eye (the top part of the rim) is 4 times the size it should be, and looks like it is filled with water or fluid. Does that make sense? And she looks to be sooo uncomfortable. Her body is so swollen, she just looks like she is going to explode. Her breathing is very rapid tonight. The only spare tank I have is a 29 gal, Hubby is setting it up now in case I want to put her in there. I hate to isolate her, I would hate for her to die alone. (she looks like she is dying before my eyes) Believe me I know the look. The other fish are staying near her, being gentle. Almost in a comforting way. What do I do? I have a rubberlip in there, and I know salt is hard on them, should I add it anyway? Thanks for helping me, I'm so upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin koko Posted October 1, 2004 Admin Share Posted October 1, 2004 Are her scales coming up off of her Hun? So your saying without he eye that its like a half moon coming out of the eye sac right.....Instead of like Dedes photo its only have the bubble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member LaurieP Posted October 1, 2004 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 1, 2004 Yes her scales are sticking out. All around her gills. Both sides. To the eye quest. Yes, that is a way to describe it. But only the top half of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin koko Posted October 1, 2004 Admin Share Posted October 1, 2004 Okay hun you got the first signs of Dropsy coming and since you got it in the first stage this is good. Since we can try to nip it in the butt. Well let me ask you this first. how many fish are in her tank? Do you have any hollow ornaments in the tank? What kind of fish in the tank? Do you have another filter and a heater? Do you have Epsom salt? Do you have Maracyn or Maraycn 2\|? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member LaurieP Posted October 1, 2004 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 1, 2004 OK there is 4 more orandas in the tank. All about 4-6 inches each. No hollow ornaments, just one rock bridge type thing. And fake plants. I do have another filter and another heater (the heater isn't the best in the world). The filter is dry and will have to be seeded from the main tank. No epsom salt, can get it if you say go get it. No maracyn or maracyn2 Have medigold food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin koko Posted October 1, 2004 Admin Share Posted October 1, 2004 Okay since you got so many other fish in the tank I would place her in the other tank. Take 40% of the water from the main tank and the filter pad ( with no Carbon)if you can from that filter and use it in the new tank and set up the old filter and start to use that on the old tank. Also set up the heater to 79F. Let it run for the night. Feed her Medigold to-nite 4-5 pellets if she will eat it. Then tomorrow I would add her to the tank by floating her for 10 mins in the baggy, then let some of the water in her bag and float her for another 5 mins do this 3 times to get her use to the temp. Then add 4 1/8 of a teaspoon of Epsom salt to the tank. Then I would get some Maracyn 2 and do the treatment for that, then after that treatment is done do a water change of 40% add carbon back to the tank, for 24 hours. Then I would do the Maracyn #1 for that treatment and during this whole time feed her the Medigold and if you want I can give you the better of meds (metro-gold) which I think works better and I have plenty to give. Feed her this for 21 days with nothing else to eat. Keep the temp up this will help her emiun system deal with this and the Epsom salt will help with the swelling Then when shes getting better I will help you get her off the heater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member LaurieP Posted October 1, 2004 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 1, 2004 Ok first I forgot to add that her wen (eariler in the thread), I had mentioned that it is starting to cover her gills. Now with her so swollen, I can barely see her gills. With the scales sticking out right there and the swelling, I don't think she is gettting much air, is there anything I should do about that? The filter is diff. than the one on the main tank, so I'll add some gravel and I filled the new 29 gal tank with 2/3 main tank water. The nitrates are at 60 right now in that tank. The temp in the main tank is 75-76 deg. right now, so that won't be a big jump for her. Oh the epsom salt is that the right dose for a 29 gal? Not second guessing you, just very bad at math myself. I'll get the Maracyn tomorrow. Do you think I should leave her in the main tank tonight? And yes, I would love the metrogold. I'm very limited on what I can get right now. If you need my address I can pm it to you. Thanks again, Is there any thing else I need to do tonight? I'm really unsure if she'll be here in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin koko Posted October 1, 2004 Admin Share Posted October 1, 2004 As of right now I don't think you can do anything for the gills, since the only thing you could do is trimming and I think that would just stress her out allot right now. As for the Epsom salt When I mean by that is over the treatment time Hun so I would do is 2 1/8s of a teaspoon with the M2 and then 2 1/8 teaspoon with the M1. I wouldn't move her tonite unless you can get he spare tank stable tonite, placing her in there with out the stableness will cause more of a problem..... The food Hun please send me your Addy and I will get it out tomorrow for you. I will do Priority so it will get there in less than 2 days sorry my head is swimming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member LaurieP Posted October 1, 2004 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 1, 2004 Ok, I will see how the tank is tonight and move her if it is stable. We'll go get the Maracyn 1 and start that tomorrow, this will be the first time I use that so do I do the Maracyn 1 tx and when it is done do the Maracyn 2 tx, or do I do them together? I think I will get the salt tonight, and maybe start that if she is able to handle the move to the iso tank. Doesn't epsom salt draw out fluid? The address is on it's way via PM ing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin koko Posted October 1, 2004 Admin Share Posted October 1, 2004 Yeah the Epsom salt will help with the swelling just like it does for us I would do the M2 first then the M1 but make sure you do a water change between the two and run the filter with carbon in it for 24 hours this way we get most of the meds out and her a break. These meds are alittle hard on the fish but work wonders for bacterial infections. Don't mix since they are hard on them and I would think it would do a over load on her system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member LaurieP Posted October 1, 2004 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 1, 2004 Thank you so much, it is much clearer what I need to do. I have matched the temp in the tank within 4 degrees, so I May switch her tonight, I'll be up for awhile, even though I have now been up 20 hours. I don't think I could rest tonight anyway. The hubby is on his way to the store to get the epsom salt, so it'll be in the tank within the hour, hopefully. Thanks again. Oh she is now floating upside down and starting to sink to the bottom. Not good huh??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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