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Wen Caving In


eather.hey

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I noticed about a week ago that one of the chunks of wen on my blue oranda was turning orange. I just figured that the color enhancing food was changing her color. Then this afternoon I noticed that that chunk of wen looked sunken in, almost rotten. What could this be? I never heard about this happening.

All of my params are pristine. I just did a water change and everything is right where it needs to be. I have 2 filters on the tank and 2 bubble walls.

Any ideas???

Thanks!

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Hi Heather

The wen caving in is not a good sign; it can indicate an internal bacterial infection. Is this fish eating and swimming normally and are there any other symptoms?

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By actually saying that the wen is caving in in kind of an exaggeration. You know how the wen is all kinds of tiny "bumps" that form the actual shape of the wen? Well it's one or two of those bumpy sections that looks like it has sunken in. It's a very tiny spot that doesn't look normal.

The fish seems to be in excellent health otherwise; no signs of distress or loss of appetite.

Well, I take some of this back. I just looked at her now and the area looks worse than yesterday! It looks like a section is rotting away almost! A few months ago I lost a fish to what reminded me of hole-in-the-head or an ulcer. The spot was on his side though. This hole reminds me of pictures I've seen of hole-in-the-head, but it's so hard to tell. The area seems a little white and fuzzy too.

I guess I'm gonna have to to get an isolation tank set up again. I'm thinking iodine swabs, neosporin and medigold?? How does that sound? Like I said, I just lost a fish to something similar awhile back...and this same treatment didn't save him. What do you think I should do to make sure the other fish are safe?

This is one of my first fancy goldfish. She's been with me forever and is one of my absolute favorites. Any advice would be great.

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Hi again Heather

Medigold and and iodine swab sounds ideal to me. :) I would probably also salt the tank to .3%, both to prevent secondary infection and help the fish osmoregulate properly where the hole is, plus increase the tank temp to around 78-80F to boost his immune system.

It may just be an area of wen growth (wens produce all kinds of weird bumps, depressions, white bits etc. when they grow), but since you recently lost a fish to HITH disease, I wouldn't take the chance. None of the treatments mentioned above are harmful to the fish or filter, so they are worth doing as a precautionary measure.

Let us know how you get on. :)

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I sure hope your fish is okay... :unsure: I have no experience with that all,but I'm sure other people have dealt with it before. Emma,if it is an internal bacterial infection,what would be the best med for that? Keeping my finger's crossed!!! :goodluck

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Just as with my poor telescope that recently passed, this is so hard to diagnose! It has to be either HITH or an ulcer. I just don't get it. I'm doing everything right and this is happening to us again. I'm usually such an optimist, but last time I went through this it was a farely quick death. And to top it all off, I caught my huge ryukin swimming upside down twice today. I'll cut an paste the red chart, just to make sure I'm not missing something here.

Ammonia Level

0

Tank size(How many Gals) and How long has it been running?

75 gallons, running since March '04

Nitrite Level?

0

How often do you change the water and how much?

Usually every Sunday, once a week, about 30-40% each time

Nitrate Level?

40

Filtration?

1 aquaclear 500 and 1 magnum. there is also a bubble wall and bubble disk.

Ph Level

6.8 (this has been the constant level for ever)

Water additives/conditioners?

Stress Coat

What do you feed your fish?

Huge variety, different brands of pellets, algae wafers, brine shrimp, blood worms, peas, lettuce...Today I started them on medigold as well.

Medications add to the tank?

None now, but I'm filling up a rubbermaid for an iso tank and will use salt and possibly melafix and or pimafix. i will also be swabbing the area with iodine.

How many fish in the tank and there size?

8 goldies ranging from 2 inches to 7 inches

Any new fish added to the tank?

nope, not in a few months and he was in an iso tank for a month first (this was the other fish that died of something similar)

Any unusual findings on the fish? Such as "grains of salt", bloody streaks, frayed fins, fungus Any unusual behavior? Like staying at the bottom, not eating, ect..

just the ulcer, or whatever that may be. she's eating fine, swimming fine, and the boys are still hot for her! all of the other fish look fine.

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Thanks for the info! I still don't know what's causing this though. I feed a variety of foods, including veggies, so I want to rule out nutrition. And my tank is very clean with good water params. Never had parasites...I'm stumped. I'm probably gonna buy some pro-gold, just in case it is nutrition. I'm already feeding her medigold and treating her with antibiotics, so hopefull I'm going in the right direction. It's hard to tell if it's improving b/c I have her in a rubbermaid container (which she HATES). I think it looks better though. I've been putting iodine or neosporin on once a day, so I did learn from the article that that is not a good idea.

Maybe I should put her back in the tank and just treat the whole tank? I've been feeding them medigold too, in case it's an internal thing that they may all have. Does anyone think that might be a good idea? Or should I continue to isolate? I should probably leave her in the iso tank...

Ughh. It's always something.

Thanks again for the reference!

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I would leave her in her own tank Hun, if it is bacterial it might be contagious :(

Yeah, that's what I'm doing. Poor thing, she just hates that rubbermaid. Maybe I'll buy a new 10 gallon (my old 10 gallon that was my hospital/iso tank now houses my bettas)

It's still hard to tell if there has been any improvement. Even though the rubbermaid is clear, it's hard to see the area. One thing that I can tell is that it doesn't look bigger. With the last fish, the ulcer doubled in size overnight and he died quickly.

Fingers crossed!

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Guest fancyfins

Eather.hey writes:

The area seems a little white and fuzzy too.

Have you considered that it might be a fungal infection? I know that wens can get white areas when they are growing but "fuzzy" suggests fungus is a possiblility..??

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Well after some rearanging I have her in a 10 gallon now where I can actually see the affected area. It has gotten much worse. The ulcer is dangerously close to her eye and gill cover. She seems perky still, but it's probably grim. The ulcer is so bad now that she would need shots of antibiotic, which is not an option for me. So I can only hope for a miracle or a quick passing.

Poor Bleu. She's always been one of my favorites...

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"1- Clean the wen with hydrogen peroxide on a Q-tip (just once)

2- Give shots of Baytril, one tenth CC everyday for 5 days.

If you do not see an improvement within three days or if the blister is growing, change to Amikacin.

Note: Amikacin can be used at a dosage of one tenth CC every OTHER day for three injections TOTAL, however, using Amikacin at this high dosage you are taking the risk of blowing the kidneys out of your fish. Because of the reduced risk, I would recommend Baytril first, if it does not work, switch to Amikacin. DO NOT GIVE MORE THAN 3 INJECTIONS OF AMIKACIN.

3- Feed our New Metro-Med food for 14 to 30 days. This is very important.

Treat ALL the fish that were exposed to the infected fish.

If you have questions, please e-mail me,

Rick

rick@goldfishconnection.com "

Do you have Metro-Med hun? IF not let me know I will get some shipped out to you, ASAP :D

http://www.goldfishconnection.com/articles...d=64&parentId=7

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Yes, I am still treating the entire tank. No one has showed any symptoms, but like I've mentioned, the telescope died of the same thing a month ago, so it took a month for another fish to get what ever it is. With ulcers and HITH everyone's opinion on cause and treatment varies so much, I'm just not sure what to do next. I bought progold and I'm gonna use that as my staple food for now on, just to ensure that nutrition isn't a factor. (Although to be honest, I had this fish a long time ago before I knew anything and only fed her flakes for months). I also took out a few rocks that might have had dangerous edges, although I doubt that too. This fish was one of the females that the guys really loved. She could have just had a little scrape from one of the boys that turned into an ulcer. Come to think of it, I found Koko's because of Bleu. I thought the boys where beating her up and came here to find out they were only courting her!

Does anyone have ideas on exactly how I should be treating the main tank. I'm feeding medigold and using Pimafix which is for internal and external bacteria and fungus.

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