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Rare Goldfish In The U.s?


David Dude

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Okay, the story is as follows:

Today my friend wanted to by goldfish at our local pet shop, yes I taught him how to properly care for them and how much space they need......, as he admired my goldfish very much! So, when we got there he saw 2 fish he liked to put in his 20 gal. While he bought his fish I went to go see the larger fish and in one of the tanks they had a bunch of 5in. ryukin(very beautiful :) ) I looked at the decorations inside the tank and there were 2 blackmoors inside of them. Since the fishstore rarely gets moors I had to have one of them in my larger tank with plenty of space. When we got home I put him in the 10gal. quarentine tank and noticed that he was smaller than the other fish in the store(3in. compared to 5-8in.)

and that his vile tail was actually joined togethor at the top. I searched all over the net for info on this fish and didn't find anything on him. Is this a new species of moor with the tail joined togethor or is this a moor that wasn't culled out?

Please answer soon,

David Dude

P.S. My friend got a cute little orange Oranda and a Calico ryukin, very cute :heart:druel

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Often pet store fish will have tails joined at the top, either all of the way or partially. This is considered a defect and the fish would not be show quality, however, it doesn't affect the fish's health and as far as I am concerned, really isn't important :D

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Okay, the story is as follows:

Today my friend wanted to by goldfish at our local pet shop, yes I taught him how to properly care for them and how much space they need......, as he admired my goldfish very much! So, when we got there he saw 2 fish he liked to put in his 20 gal. While he bought his fish I went to go see the larger fish and in one of the tanks they had a bunch of 5in. ryukin(very beautiful :) ) I looked at the decorations inside the tank and there were 2 blackmoors inside of them. Since the fishstore rarely gets moors I had to have one of them in my larger tank with plenty of space. When we got home I put him in the 10gal. quarentine tank and noticed that he was smaller than the other fish in the store(3in. compared to 5-8in.)

and that his vile tail was actually joined togethor at the top. I searched all over the net for info on this fish and didn't find anything on him. Is this a new species of moor with the tail joined togethor or is this a moor that wasn't culled out?

Please answer soon,

David Dude

P.S. My friend got a cute little orange Oranda and a Calico ryukin, very cute :heart:druel

I went to the bristol aquarists society and it looks like a tosakin dragon eye goldfish but instead of orange its black. If the fish I have is a tosakin and I keep it until its about 3 years old or 8in. long around how much could I sell it for. It seems to be very expensive here in the U.S. :blink:

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Okay, the story is as follows:

Today my friend wanted to by goldfish at our local pet shop, yes I taught him how to properly care for them and how much space they need......, as he admired my goldfish very much! So, when we got there he saw 2 fish he liked to put in his 20 gal. While he bought his fish I went to go see the larger fish and in one of the tanks they had a bunch of 5in. ryukin(very beautiful :) ) I looked at the decorations inside the tank and there were 2 blackmoors inside of them. Since the fishstore rarely gets moors I had to have one of them in my larger tank with plenty of space. When we got home I put him in the 10gal. quarentine tank and noticed that he was smaller than the other fish in the store(3in. compared to 5-8in.)

and that his vile tail was actually joined togethor at the top. I searched all over the net for info on this fish and didn't find anything on him. Is this a new species of moor with the tail joined togethor or is this a moor that wasn't culled out?

Please answer soon,

David Dude

P.S. My friend got a cute little orange Oranda and a Calico ryukin, very cute :heart   :druel

I went to the bristol aquarists society and it looks like a tosakin dragon eye goldfish but instead of orange its black. If the fish I have is a tosakin and I keep it until its about 3 years old or 8in. long around how much could I sell it for. It seems to be very expensive here in the U.S. :blink:

Any body there? :(

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I doubt its a tosakin.... the fused tail is common amongst pet store goldies. I have one telescope with a heavily fused tail and a lionheads with the top caudal fin fused at the very top. Just a minor genetic mutation in an otherwise perfect fish :)

Cheers!

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Pet store fish are culls. About one fish in 100 will be high enough quality to breed, sometimes less. The others end up as pets. Most of the time you will see fish with slight defects like the fused tail, single anal fins, twisted fins, and so on. It just means theyre not show quality. If you are looking for show quality fish you often wont find them at pet stores, but the ones they sell make great pets in spite of their flaws.

I have a beautiful ranchu with a single anal fin and fused tail, and an oranda with a crooked tail but that doesnt make them any less special to me.

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I doubt its a tosakin.... the fused tail is common amongst pet store goldies. I have one telescope with a heavily fused tail and a lionheads with the top caudal fin fused at the very top. Just a minor genetic mutation in an otherwise perfect fish :)

Cheers!

So its not a tosakin? oh well :( it still is pretty cute though, man I whish I could post picks on here but I don't have a digit. cam. or do I have enough posts to post a pic or do I know about photo hosting sites or do I know how to put a link to the pic ya see my prob? :cry1 If my parents ever got a digit cam. which one would you guys know of that is good and can post pics on here :unsure: oh and whats a demekin, ya know

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In my opinion, minor genetic mutations actually look cuter and much lovelier than the real thing. I would keep your fish, whatever it is, because it does sound like a darling little thing; even if it's genes are messed up a tad and he was not culled.

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Goldfish tails used to have many more combinations of form than what you commonly see today.

There were 5 recognisable and valid tail configurations:

1. Singletail or Funa-wo

2. Tripod tail or Tsumami-wo where the tail is joined from the body up, and split from the body down.

3. Webtail or Mitsu-wo. This is most likely the type of tail that you describe - it is joined all along the top of the tail but is two separate portions elsewhere.

4. Double tail or Yotsu-wo - a tail that starts at the body as one, but splits into two immediately.

5. Buttterfly tail or Kujaku-wo - the modern day butterfly tail.

The buttterfly tail has become the standard - though many judges will also consider the other tails - to some it is considered a fault, but rarely a disqualification. It depends on who's rules that are being used for judging the fish.

A Tosakin's tail is a full butterfly tail that has turned 90 degrees or so and spreads out on the water with a curl - a form that is very difficult to breed and difficult to maintain. :)

I think they are all beautiful in their own way, as is each fish.

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A veil tail is extremely long, fine fine finage on a fish. I had a pair of calico Ryukin veiltails once. I think RanchuGirl has some modern "veiltails". They are true fish of beauty!

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I have had several fish with the tail joined at the top. I did not know it was a defect like the single tailed fish. All these fish looked gorgeous!

Daryl, that was quite an impressive lecture on goldfish tails. Where did you get that info? One of the fry I gave for adoption had that tripod tail!

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vile tail? I think I Have one. BUT I think it's a comet/fantail mix or something like that. JUst look at the tail...

for4.JPG

for5.JPG

*veiltail :D

I think your fish has the type of tail they were talking about above, the tripod [[the three-pointed tail]]. It may be a mix, but it sure is beautiful! I don't think it's a veiltail, it doesn't look like one, but it does look like a tripod. I wish I had one, I'd name him Tri. :heart

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Years ago I walked many a pond edge listening to a Japanese goldfish expert describe his fish and how they were raised. He was a wealth of information - most which I had second hand through translation (my Japanese is far worse than my Chinese! :lol: ) We walked barefoot in the hot sun along the dirt berms that divided the ponds and they were the best 14 days I think I have ever spent in Japan! I have visited many a place since then, but no one has been as giving of information as this gentleman was!

More information can be gleaned from following judges around as they judge fish at a show. I listen and listen and listen. A good judge will talk his/her way through any judgement - stating exactly what he sees, what he thinks, how it fits in with the present conformation dictums and how it fits in with history. Occasionally there is an opportunity to ask questions, also.

There are books full of knowledge that will never be written - for they are all living in the minds of many.....

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Years ago I walked many a pond edge listening to a Japanese goldfish expert describe his fish and how they were raised. He was a wealth of information - most which I had second hand through translation (my Japanese is far worse than my Chinese! :lol: ) We walked barefoot in the hot sun along the dirt berms that divided the ponds and they were the best 14 days I think I have ever spent in Japan! I have visited many a place since then, but no one has been as giving of information as this gentleman was!

More information can be gleaned from following judges around as they judge fish at a show. I listen and listen and listen. A good judge will talk his/her way through any judgement - stating exactly what he sees, what he thinks, how it fits in with the present conformation dictums and how it fits in with history. Occasionally there is an opportunity to ask questions, also.

There are books full of knowledge that will never be written - for they are all living in the minds of many.....

Well guys(and girls), after all the pics you posted here, I haven't seen any that can compare to the tail that my moor has. I was searching thru the internet last night and found exactly what he looks like(including body, tail, eyes, everything)except the specimen on that page is orange and white, while my goldie was black but it seems like he is changing to another color here is the link:

exactly what my goldie looks like

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That is a standard, modern day "butterfly" tail of show quality. :)

"A butterfly tail will lay on the water with a spread to resemble the wings of a symetrical butterfly as they open."

A Tosikin tail has an upwards curl - something altogether different. They also have a particular type of curl - not just a twist - twists are common in many fish through injury or genetics. To keep a Tosikin's particular tail design, the fish is supposedly kept only in a round container - such as a round bottomed seive or such because water currents and other factors can damage a Tosikin's tail conformation.

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