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Emergency, please help.


sarah91

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I think he is getting better! The swelling has really gone down, and he is more lively. I'm not celebrating yet because I know it could still get worse again, but this is good right :)

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He has been slowly swelling back up again, I have been trying to treat with esha 2000 to no avail. I'm going to try kanaplex again but this time by mouth. I'll add 1 measured spoon to 1 tbsp gel food and feed him a mouthful everyday for a week. I think the kanaplex worked last time but it was slow to show results. It made him ill last time, but thinking about it antibiotics usually make me feel ill too.

I am worried because I have read it can cause kidney damage if overused. Which antibiotic should I purchase to try if this one fails? 

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Generally kanaplex by mouth is dosed by weight, I can try to find a table for that if you want it.

And yes, do not use Kana for more than 21 days without a six week break, minimum. Closer than that and it seems to be less effective and more of an issue for the fish’s body. Adding in another gram negative antibiotic that plays nicely with Kana, like furan 2 or triple sulfa, can also increase the efficacy as they work synergistically with one another.

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Yes please, that would be amazing as I can't seem to find a table myself. 

I can't find anywhere that will sell furan 2 or Triple sulfa to the UK

They will take several weeks to arrive but I can get Seachem Focus, Neoplex, Metroplex or Marcyn two - those are the only others I know about. Would any of those be ok to use after the Kanaplex? 

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Oh if you can get focus that will make things much easier, they have a direct translation of amount to scoops of meds. Go that route. Maracyn 2 is a bad choice here, it’s even more damaging to kidneys than Kanamycin.

 

Unfortunately Neomycin isn’t well absorbed internally, it wouldn’t make sense to feed it. Oxytetracycline or nitrofurazone (yellow powder, furan 2) are really your best bet. You can try metronidazole but that’s a gram positive antibiotic and usually dropsy is caused by gram negative bacteria types. It’s up to you, I’m sorry for the shipping drama.

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Thank you, I will get Focus.

I found Polyguard which contains malachite green, sulfa, quinacrine, and nitrofurazone. I'm not sure if that would be any good or not because of all the extra ingredients, but I saw that it had nitrofurazone in it. Should I get that too?

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with me, I would be absolutely lost otherwise! 

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That’s your best choice of the options, I think. That in the water with kanaplex food is the strongest regimen available to you without a vet, from the sound of it. Two weeks course of both simultaneously and maintain warm, clean water throughout.

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Don’t do it in the water again just yet, it will be good to give the fish a break from it while you wait for the focus. Plus you cannot feed it for two weeks if you started it in the water, exposure is cumulative. If you absolutely have to start a treatment now then do the polyguard, but I really do think your best bet is to wait for everything to arrive and then run the treatments together. Unless you’re having emergency symptoms a break won’t hurt, and could help.

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55 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

That’s your best choice of the options, I think. That in the water with kanaplex food is the strongest regimen available to you without a vet, from the sound of it. Two weeks course of both simultaneously and maintain warm, clean water throughout.

Sorry i'm a bit confused, did you mean focus and kanaplex, polyguard and kanaplex, or all three? 

I will see how he goes, but he is swelling up fast and starting to act lethargic again so I think I may have to act. The polyguard will also take a few weeks to arrive so if I do have to treat him all I have is kanaplex. 

 

 

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The focus is a binding agent for the kanaplex to become a medicated food. So feeding the kanaplex while using the polyguard in the water is all I’d recommend at this point - to be strong enough to possibly knock this out. 
 

If the fish is too sick, too fast for the shipping, that’s often a sign the illness is severe and might not respond favorably to treatment, anyway. ESPECIALLY since you already used kanaplex before and had some, but not, huge, success. Using it again while waiting for the poly guard is unlikely to help much, and it just means you’re exposing the fish to a treatment that then cannot be combined with another later on for better effect.

 

Treating him with kanaplex alone right now is almost guaranteed to be a waste of meds. It wasn’t strong enough before and using it again won’t make it more effective, but likely less as the bacteria in his system could potentially show more resistance to the treatment. Obviously all I can do is give advice and the choice is yours, but if you dose kana now, again, you cannot feed it with focus to bind it later.

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I know this is hard, and I’m sorry there aren’t better options. Your best bet, regardless of what works for this fish, is to order your basics meds to have on hand for future emergencies.

Keep good stock of metronidazole, kanamycin, the polyguard or some source for triple sulfa or furan 2, methylene blue, praziquantel, and both aquarium and epsom salt. That’s your solid goldfish first aid kit that I’d say we use to treat 90% of what we encounter on this forum. Other treatments are specialty items like dewormers or heavier hitting antibiotics that are harder to obtain.

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18 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

The focus is a binding agent for the kanaplex to become a medicated food. So feeding the kanaplex while using the polyguard in the water is all I’d recommend at this point - to be strong enough to possibly knock this out. 
 

If the fish is too sick, too fast for the shipping, that’s often a sign the illness is severe and might not respond favorably to treatment, anyway. ESPECIALLY since you already used kanaplex before and had some, but not, huge, success. Using it again while waiting for the poly guard is unlikely to help much, and it just means you’re exposing the fish to a treatment that then cannot be combined with another later on for better effect.

 

Treating him with kanaplex alone right now is almost guaranteed to be a waste of meds. It wasn’t strong enough before and using it again won’t make it more effective, but likely less as the bacteria in his system could potentially show more resistance to the treatment. Obviously all I can do is give advice and the choice is yours, but if you dose kana now, again, you cannot feed it with focus to bind it later.

Oh I see, thank you for explaining. I really hope he can make it, the focus and polyguard could arrive by the 6th of dec. At the rate he is swelling up, i'm unsure he will last that long.

I think the problem with the kanaplex last time was I pulled it out too early because I didn't see results and I got scared it was making him sick. I dosed the tank every other day for 6 days (7th nov - 11th nov) but I think I needed to carry it on for longer. 

But yes, I see what you are saying, there is no point in using it on it's own because the bacteria will just come back stronger. 

At the moment the tank is clear of any medication, while I wait for the antibiotics to arrive is there anything I should use to try and keep it at bay, such as aquarium salt? Or will it just do more harm than good?

I won't be keeping fish after he has passed, he has been my only fish for many years. When I was a teenager I had several other goldfish that sadly passed because I didn't understand how to keep fish. I used to wash the whole tank & filter with soap 😣 He was the lone survivor. I'm going to miss him 😕 

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Oh yes you definitely need to run a complete course of any antibiotic, including kanaplex. Two weeks, ten days is the absolute minimum. The good news is that if you dosed it that lightly I think you are good to run a solid two week course right now. I thought you’d done a full treatment round.

That still means you can’t run it concurrently with the other meds because of shipping time, but it might give you some options.

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That's really good news, I think I had better start it now. I'm unsure about what dosage to use though, the only information I can find is from the manufacturer. I have been trying to find a dosage by weight table like you mentioned but I can only find one for dosing the water and not by mouth. 

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You’d be putting it in the water if the focus isn’t here. Two weeks of meds, 1 measure per ten gallons, do complete water changes every day or two, if your ammonia is still below .25ppms. Usually I do complete daily changes because the ammonia in my hospital tank gets high, quickly, but that does use more meds. The point is that when you change the water change all of it and redone the full measure of meds, and do that for a full fourteen days.

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If you’re thinking you may run out of kanaplex definitely feed extremely lightly so you can get away with water changes and medication redosing every two days. Just scoop the fish and some tank water into a small bucket or dish, change all the aquarium water, add in the measure of kanaplex, and then gently use your hand to scoop the animal back in.

Make sure the water is dechlorinated and about the same temperature. And you’re good to go.

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Ok, I think that may be a good idea to dose the tank anyway because apparently kanamycin works better on internal infections when absorbed through the skin. That and the last time I used it he stopped eating for a few days.

 

By measure do you mean one scoopful like in this picture for example:

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It can be fed, it just has to be done carefully. Some meds are garbage that way, but Kana is firmly okay. A water course won’t be shorting him anything if you didn’t complete a full treatment last time. That scoop looks goods 👍 

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Arctic Mama was awarded the badge 'Helpful' and 25 points.

Keep us posted as to how it goes and, even if it seems like it’s making no difference, complete the treatment course entirely. Antibiotics always need a full course, in animals and humans, too, or antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria become a thing. Good luck :)

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